A Simple Fix for Low PH

[jsker]

This is the best solution, although there are some interesting points brought up by Dana that are making me rethink stripping my water of CO2... It's interesting that some corals have and use carbonic anhydrase outside of their cell walls, allowing them to convert bicarbonate into CO2 for intracellular transport for ease of use (photosynthesis) by the zooxanthellae, while other corals with clade 13 zoox's prefer to use CO2 directly instead of bicarb (Condy anemones, Porites and Montastrea were named corals in Dana's article), so the presence of CO2 in a tank can be very helpful for photosynthesis, and in others, the only way to correct systems with low CO2 values is to increase the alkalinity to help corals that use carbonic anhydrase to convert HCO3 into CO2 for photosynthesis. Great discussion thread you started jsker! I am learning a lot on this thread!

I am so happy that you found the article and I am enjoying the input

 

[nervousmonkey]

This is definitely right up my alley of things I like and understand. This was my undergrad degree at Ga. Tech; molecular biology with minor in genetics. There is so much to learn about this hobby, with everyone on different learning tracks and learning curves. Man, I don't know how I got a ticket on the stupid bus, but I must be on the slow learner curve. I have to make the mistake myself to prove it to myself. Don't know why I can't learn by listening to way smarter people who have already done this. Maybe this hobby is so much fun because there is always something around the corner to pick up and learn, and we all share pretty well here; no sense of entitlement at all. And then the corals that we get to see every day? And critters of all sorts as well.
Thanks for saying that you enjoy the input, I am speaking for a lot of people but we certainly enjoy it when we get to sit back and watch you do the teaching on the site. Fun to hear how a different person thinks about the ways to do something, or perform some task. I always learn something new here, just a different way of looking at our tanks provides a lot of information to go out and read about. But man, have I made some dumb mistakes along the way. HA!

 

[jsker]

This is definitely right up my alley of things I like and understand. This was my undergrad degree at Ga. Tech; molecular biology with minor in genetics. There is so much to learn about this hobby, with everyone on different learning tracks and learning curves. Man, I don't know how I got a ticket on the stupid bus, but I must be on the slow learner curve. I have to make the mistake myself to prove it to myself. Don't know why I can't learn by listening to way smarter people who have already done this. Maybe this hobby is so much fun because there is always something around the corner to pick up and learn, and we all share pretty well here; no sense of entitlement at all. And then the corals that we get to see every day? And critters of all sorts as well.
Thanks for saying that you enjoy the input, I am speaking for a lot of people but we certainly enjoy it when we get to sit back and watch you do the teaching on the site. Fun to hear how a different person thinks about the ways to do something, or perform some task. I always learn something new here, just a different way of looking at our tanks provides a lot of information to go out and read about. But man, have I made some dumb mistakes along the way. HA!

We are all in the same car going over the what was I thinking cliff. I am over coming my latest boneheaded move. I like R2R, there are so many different member with different experiences. What makes it even more interesting is the member from all over the world chipping in to.

 

[nervousmonkey]

Haha!!! "the what was I thinking cliff" indeed. And I keep going off of it. Same here, just hit the bottom of the valley, but had some super cool and dedicated people from here who helped me manage to bounce off the valley floor instead of normally: flying down on fire, with car parts exploding off the car onto the rocks, me with a look of utter shock and disbelief.
Yeah, I love hearing from a British or European, or Aussie/Kiwi, Asian perspective. So different but can always tell from where in the world they come from just by the equipment/methodology, tank livestock. Crazy that we all could do that, and while not able to speak the physical language, could walk into any home with a Reef tank inside, and could tell immediately. We all speak Reef with seawater in our veins, and with one gesture towards the cabinet where the filtration and sump are located, examine their sump by taking a look at the contents, and smile in acknowledgement of what they have done with their system.

 

[Lasse]

Hello all

I´m always been keen of testing and advocate my own way of running my tank. Since the start of the new tank - my pH has been altering between 8.3 and 8.5. The grow rate and the look of my corals has not been the best so I have start to rethinking my way of running this tank. I have a night refugium with rather high growth rate but I could also be better. Now I have decide to try to keep my pH as close to 8.20 as possible. The way I do that is that my skimmer does not run 7/24. Only then the pH is below 8.20. I use a carbon scrubber its necessary in order to keep the pH round 8.20 during night time. See graph

I´m also logging my flats CO2 levels with help of a weather station - Netatmo – See graph for last week. We are two persons in the household – its 0 degree Celsius outside and closed doors/windows. And also some candles during dark Winter evenings With only two persons we can reach 1000 ppm during evenings. This evening – it will be 4 grownups and 2 children in the flat – will be interesting to read the CO2 levels.

I have run the pH managed skimming during 2 weeks and it looks like it’s a little bit better with the grown rate.


I have some ideas to manage the skimmer air intake with a 3 way magnetic valve. I will make it possible to lower pH during nights (with help of un-filtrated air) when the macroalgae’s need carbondioxide and have a higher pH during the day in order to optimize calcification.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[nervousmonkey]

[EDITED]
I had not read your build thread before now @Lasse .

Now I understand why you want a lower pH. You are definitely not a run of the mill (translation to: boring) reefer that is trying to get pH up.

If anyone has not read Lasse's reason for wanting lower pH, recommend reading his build thread.

 

[jsker]

@Lasse Great post, and thank you for being the mad scientist that you are with your system

I just might have to set my skimmer to turn off and on with the controller to keep my PH around 8.2 now

Keep us posted

 

[Lasse]

Thanks @nervousmonkey and @jsker

I do not know if this a good idea or not - we will see in the future. Jsker – if you test with shouting down your skimmer – be aware that it could be problems.

I´m not 100 % pleased with how my tank look just now - I´m low in phosphate (around 0.07 ppm and low in NO3 – around 2 ppm) but some of my corals don´t looks as they should. I have lost two of my beloved plate corals (two orange corals). Other things – like sponges works very well – I have a lot of sponges in the aquarium. I´ll post an update in my thread in the coming days.

By the way – see my CO2 graph this evening – my gest arrive at 17:00 and left 21:15. It’s a lot of carbondioxide that will affect the pH of the aquarium.

Compare yesterday and today in the graph. Yesterday top pH was 8.33 at 23 – today – top pH 8.28 at 19:44

​

Sincerely Lasse

 

[jsker]

@Lasse looking forward to the update. I was think of maybe shutting down the skimmer when the PH goes above 8.25 and back on when it drops down to a 8.19 to try to keep it at a steady 8.2.

I just lost a buck of corals too, due to experimentation and running my bio pellet to slow. Things are recovering after about a month of not running the bio pellets.

 

[nervousmonkey]

@Lasse I think I am finally understanding why you are trying to reduce pH getting too high. It is still amazing to see that with a level of 2000 ppm in your home that your pH only dropped to 8.28 as peak. Is that due to the CO2 scrubber that is doing its' best to keep up? If so, great job! What model Deltec do you use? Is that the SC1660? I have the same one if it is, and good to know that it can exchange gas so well. I agree that skimmers are much better at gas exchange than they are at skimming organics and bacteria and diatoms, etc.

What do you attribute the coral loss to? Anything in particular yet? You seem to exchange gas very well, and I assume it is skimming well....

 

[Lasse]

@Lasse looking forward to the update. I was think of maybe shutting down the skimmer when the PH goes above 8.25 and back on when it drops down to a 8.19 to try to keep it at a steady 8.2.

I just lost a buck of corals too, due to experimentation and running my bio pellet to slow. Things are recovering after about a month of not running the bio pellets.

Its exactly how I run my skimmer at the moment

@Lasse I think I am finally understanding why you are trying to reduce pH getting too high. It is still amazing to see that with a level of 2000 ppm in your home that your pH only dropped to 8.28 as peak. Is that due to the CO2 scrubber that is doing its' best to keep up? If so, great job! What model Deltec do you use? Is that the SC1660? I have the same one if it is, and good to know that it can exchange gas so well. I agree that skimmers are much better at gas exchange than they are at skimming organics and bacteria and diatoms, etc.

What do you attribute the coral loss to? Anything in particular yet? You seem to exchange gas very well, and I assume it is skimming well....

I think it’s a Deltec 1456 I use. I´m very pleased with it.

The skimmer was not running at the time for the pH peak. The most interesting thing is that it start to drop already around 20:00 instead for normally 23:00. Had the skimmer run – I know that the CO2 scrubber have balanced the higher CO2 level rather good and the pH level had start to drop later.

According to coral loss - I have some ideas that I use a little too much of organic carbon but at the same time a small amount of lubrication to a hose pump was coming down in the sump. I do not really know what´s happen.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[nervousmonkey]

I look forward to updates Lasse! It is frustrating when there is coral loss and no idea why it happens, is it not? Do you mean organic carbon dosing? Are you using skimmate as source or what is your organic carbon source?

 

[Lasse]

I look forward to updates Lasse! It is frustrating when there is coral loss and no idea why it happens, is it not? Do you mean organic carbon dosing? Are you using skimmate as source or what is your organic carbon source?

Please se my thread - I answer there

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Sppf121]

I had the same issue with low pH levels (7.8 or lower) and a CO2 scrubber was being exhausted way too quickly, so I needed to pull in some outside air to my skimmer.
My solution wasn't quite as easy as just drilling a hole as my tank sits along a recessed exterior wall in the basement. If I went the easy route, my air line would've been at ground level where the landscaping is sprayed for weeds and pests by the HOA. I decided to run the air line up the wall, through a soffit and along the floor joists above the ceiling and then out the wall just under the deck. This placed the air intake about 9' high and 25' away from the skimmer. The fitting for the air line sits right behind my aquarium and is not visible unless you're looking for it; pleases my OCD of not seeing any cords, hoses or anything to distract from the tank.
I used 1" PEX tubing for the run in the walls and ceiling with fittings on each end. To run the tubing from the wall and through the ceiling, I need to crawl through the soffit over 20' to get to the other end of the house.

All said and done, my pH levels now stay between 7.98(night) to 8.13(day).
I highly recommend to those with low pH levels to get fresh air into your skimmer.

A couple of pics from the task.

Access to soffit above the bathroom from our mechanical room.


Inside the soffit; 18" of height to go over 20' to the other end.


The outdoor fitting; wire screen is placed inside to keep bugs out.


The indoor fitting; used a low voltage box and plate cover with barbed fittings.

Thanks I am working on the same issue. Going to post my results when I am done. Thanks for putting this out there.

 

[Doubbler]

You can also dress up the hole in your wall with this

 

[jsker]

You can also dress up the hole in your wall with this

Brillent!!
Is the a specific type of plate/name we should be looking for??

 

[Doubbler]

Brillent!!
Is the a specific type of plate/name we should be looking for??

Got this at home depot. It's called a remodle media plate. Just cut the appropriate sized hole in the middle of the stud cavity. There are two tabs that squeeze to the back of the drywall to attach it.

 

[jsker]

Got this at home depot. It's called a remodle media plate. Just cut the appropriate sized hole in the middle of the stud cavity. There are two tabs that squeeze to the back of the drywall to attach it.

Thank you for the extra homework and sharing.

I think we are so into getting the thing hooked up, we forget about making it pretty

 

[Doubbler]

Thank you for the extra homework and sharing.

I think we are so into getting the thing hooked up, we forget about making it pretty

Yea, any way to keep the wife happy . I do a lot of kitchen and bathroom remodeling, so I knew about these before I started. In my head, I was like, how can I not make it sound like I'm destroying the house, while adding yet another insane project for my corals. I also ran a 100 foot ethernet cable down the same hole, so "two birds"

 

[jsker]

I have become the Michelangelo of caulk