8 months without filter socks, where do mybnitrates go?

[joekidwell]

I'm stumped on this one.

8 months ago I decided to stop using filter socks to make life easier and reduce nitrate swings. It has worked better than expected. My nitrates haven't been above 7 in that time.

When using socks you have to change them out regularly or you begin to see nitrates rise quickly. Now that I don't uses socks and my sump clearly settles out the organic waste. I can see the waste but my nitrates are steady, if I were to throw a sock in there in three days they would start rising again, im sure of it.

Every other month I vaccume out the sump as my water change for the week.

Why do they break down so quickly in a sock but not free floating?

Maybe I'm just crazy but this has been my observation for my system.

NO3 6.4
PO4 .02

 

[Dburr1014]

I'm stumped on this one.

8 months ago I decided to stop using filter socks to make life easier and reduce nitrate swings. It has worked better than expected. My nitrates haven't been above 7 in that time.

When using socks you have to change them out regularly or you begin to see nitrates rise quickly. Now that I don't uses socks and my sump clearly settles out the organic waste. I can see the waste but my nitrates are steady, if I were to throw a sock in there in three days they would start rising again, im sure of it.

Every other month I vaccume out the sump as my water change for the week.

Why do they break down so quickly in a sock but not free floating?

Maybe I'm just crazy but this has been my observation for my system.

NO3 6.4
PO4 .02

View attachment 3164281

I'm thinking your coral/rock are using them up quickly.
Do you carbon dose?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Why do they break down so quickly in a sock but not free floating?

Do you skim? Maybe particulates are removed that way.

Also, if they are consumed by filter feeders, not all of the N and P in them returns to the water.

That said, I'm not sure why you observed what you did.

 

[Stevorino]

Is there anything else at all that you changed when you moved away from socks? More water changes, vacuums, less feeding, etc?

When changing socks regularly, I have never observed material spikes in Nitrates myself..... but that doesn't mean it wasn't happening to you.

 

[joekidwell]

I'm thinking your coral/rock are using them up quickly.
Do you carbon dose?

No, just a refugium.

 

[joekidwell]

Do you skim? Maybe particulates are removed that way.

Also, if they are consumed by filter feeders, not all of the N and P in them returns to the water.

That said, I'm not sure why you observed what you did.

My skimmer has been working harder for sure. Would it be that efficient?

 

[CNDReef]

Same experience for me. Went from 30ppm to 0 with no socks and I have to dose to keep No3 from being undetectable

 

[Treefer32]

I went without skimmer and socks for a couple months when my skimmer was damaged. My nitrates must have skyrocketed because I lost many corals in that time. I don't know the cause, other than tank started looking better once I got the skimmer and socks back in place. Now I test nitrates weekly and I use a reefmat.

The hypothesis I would propose is that denitrifying bacteria needs food to keep their colonies operational. by removing the particulates with socks, A) the bacteria colonies may be skimmed out of the water column and B) there's less waste being broken down by bacteria, therefore less bacteria is present. by removing the socks but keeping the skimmer going, you're allowing the bacteria to break down the food then the skimmer skims the fat bacteria out of the water, preventing the bacteria from dying and releasing the nutrients back into the water.

I think one or the other is needed, a skimmer or socks. But would be open to how to manage organics without either. For me, my 340 gallon display looks like a dust storm constantly when I went without socks or something to filter debris out. I have messy fish. . . .

 

[joekidwell]

I went without skimmer and socks for a couple months when my skimmer was damaged. My nitrates must have skyrocketed because I lost many corals in that time. I don't know the cause, other than tank started looking better once I got the skimmer and socks back in place. Now I test nitrates weekly and I use a reefmat.

The hypothesis I would propose is that denitrifying bacteria needs food to keep their colonies operational. by removing the particulates with socks, A) the bacteria colonies may be skimmed out of the water column and B) there's less waste being broken down by bacteria, therefore less bacteria is present. by removing the socks but keeping the skimmer going, you're allowing the bacteria to break down the food then the skimmer skims the fat bacteria out of the water, preventing the bacteria from dying and releasing the nutrients back into the water.

I think one or the other is needed, a skimmer or socks. But would be open to how to manage organics without either. For me, my 340 gallon display looks like a dust storm constantly when I went without socks or something to filter debris out. I have messy fish. . . .

After removing the socks I turned down my return to half of what it was running. The slower flow through the sump let's the heavies drop out better. I do run carbon whenever I disturb the sand or blow out any cracks. I rinse all my frozen food really good. If I feed reefroids I'll stuff some filter floss in there till about 15 minutes after. My skimmer is working harder, it's very easy to get brown sludge in there. I squeezed an aquamax dfc 180 in the sump, its rated for 130 gallons heavy bio, im at 75 heavy bio, possibly how I get by with it.

 

[Timfish]

Sponges and biofilms are also messing with carbon, nitrogen and phosphorus in a system along with corals and algae.

 

[joekidwell]

Thinking out loud here.

What if the socks prevent it from reaching the beneficial bacteria faster than it could. It's sitting there stuck in a clean sock filter when it could be laying on the bottom of the sump, laying on the sandbed or rocks that are covered in bacteria.

Yes bacteria will break down organics in the water but if you introduce them to a bacteria covered surface in theory it should act much faster, cuts out the middle man, the water. Same reason we don't eat food that falls on the floor, it's contaminated with possible bacteria.


Those who overfeed and lack maintenance I could see this ending very badly.

I'm mean, it sorta makes sense, dosen't it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thinking out loud here.

What if the socks prevent it from reaching the beneficial bacteria faster than it could. It's sitting there stuck in a clean sock filter when it could be laying on the bottom of the sump, laying on the sandbed or rocks that are covered in bacteria.

Yes bacteria will break down organics in the water but if you introduce them to a bacteria covered surface in theory it should act much faster, cuts out the middle man, the water. Same reason we don't eat food that falls on the floor, it's contaminated with possible bacteria.


Those who overfeed and lack maintenance I could see this ending very badly.

I'm mean, it sorta makes sense, dosen't it?

Socks are only retaining particulate organics, and the bacteria that might break it down will come to the particle, rather than the particle being sucked into a film of bacteria.

 

[Pod_01]

I'm stumped on this one.

8 months ago I decided to stop using filter socks to make life easier and reduce nitrate swings. It has worked better than expected. My nitrates haven't been above 7 in that time.

When using socks you have to change them out regularly or you begin to see nitrates rise quickly. Now that I don't uses socks and my sump clearly settles out the organic waste. I can see the waste but my nitrates are steady, if I were to throw a sock in there in three days they would start rising again, im sure of it.

Every other month I vaccume out the sump as my water change for the week.

Why do they break down so quickly in a sock but not free floating?

Maybe I'm just crazy but this has been my observation for my system.

NO3 6.4
PO4 .02

View attachment 3164281

I have not used filter socks for almost 2 years and my latest values are:

Corals are good

The question to ponder, is the removal of socks the cause or just coincidence and the system was going in that direction regardless?
Maybe it is just maturity of the system.

cheers,

 

[CNDReef]

That’s pretty easy to test, start using socks again and see if it goes up. In my case it did. I’d rather suck out detritus than constantly battle swings in water chemistry. By the way I run no fuge or any other nutrient reducing media but keep my fish load low.

 

[Pod_01]

That’s pretty easy to test, start using socks again and see if it goes up. In my case it did. I’d rather suck out detritus than constantly battle swings in water chemistry. By the way I run no fuge or any other nutrient reducing media but keep my fish load low.

Unfortunately I am not going to put the socks back in. After removing them I got more floaty things in the water and the corals improved a lot SPS especially, it might have been coincidence but I am not planning to find out. I am not chasing NO3 or PO4 I just let them do their thing and record where they are.
With respect to fish I have medium load and planning to go higher, I want them to make more coral food. But, I do feed high quality, high content fatty acids foods, with zero fillers.
My filtering is skimmer, activated carbon and the most important filter corrals.

cheers,

 

[doubleshot00]

When I go on vacation I take my socks out and start dosing Nitrates because I don't want them to tank. I use socks to keep my no3 up.

 

[Dburr1014]

My no3 is zero past few weeks. I have been feeding my fish way more than before. The ammonium must be working.
Po4 is 0.11 last check.