4,5 months IN, tank ugly stage?

[Gabbone]

Yes, sorry I missed that. See my edited post above. I am highly skeptical that you are losing the alkalinity via calcification processes which is where we get the 1:1 calcium to alk dosing suggestion. Your calcium consumption is probably much lower with the current selection of soft corals you have and you don’t have a ton of coraline algae sucking it up (I think you mentioned the purple on the rocks was artificial).

In general the rule is don’t dose what you don’t test. You can get away with using the suggested ratios and only testing alk when your tank is more mature and you have a decent load of active stony coral calcification happening, but I don’t think that is the case here. For now I recommend testing your calcium and alkalinity separately and dosing only what is needed. Probably just alk at this point.

I just tested CA and it's a solid 460. Perfect spot. Every time I tested it's always between 440-460. Normally 440 before WC and after WC goes back to 460.

Now it's getting interesting; For the first 3,5 months it was always like that with ALK too. Always stable between 11.5 and 10.5 since I use Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. Never dosed. (FYI I just tested the fresh salt water batch and ALK is 11.5dkh so it's all good there).

I believe this huge deplation started since when I attached the CO2 remover to the hose of my skimmer to raise the ph. And my skimmer is a little bit on the "big side". Actually, my ph was fine too but I took it as an experiment to see if bring any improvements to my tank. At this point, I believe I should remove the CO2 remover from the skimmer and see how ALK and PH gonna act. Do you agree?

Only one remarks:

Actually I have 2 soft corals only and all the rest are big LPS.

 

[Lavey29]

Thanks again!

Therefore if I get 0.8dKh Alk depletion per day I have 0.8ppm CA depletion per day?

Most of the time alk and cal deplete proportionally but not always especially in new tanks. I dose 40ml of alk and 40ml of calcium daily. Magnesium depletes at 1/10th the rate of these. I hand dose Magnesium once a week. Typically water changes suffice to replenish Magnesium. You just need to get a good baseline by testing alk and calcium at the same time over 3 days and determine your consumption. Typically in new tanks with light coral stock weekly water changes suffice but usually around 6 months to one year some minor hand dosing may be needed. After a year with more corals in the tank daily dosing via a dosing pump is required.

 

[Gabbone]

Most of the time alk and cal deplete proportionally but not always especially in new tanks. I dose 40ml of alk and 40ml of calcium daily. Magnesium depletes at 1/10th the rate of these. I hand dose Magnesium once a week. Typically water changes suffice to replenish Magnesium. You just need to get a good baseline by testing alk and calcium at the same time over 3 days and determine your consumption. Typically in new tanks with light coral stock weekly water changes suffice but usually around 6 months to one year some minor hand dosing may be needed. After a year with more corals in the tank daily dosing via a dosing pump is required.

Thanks.

What would you do in this case then?

"I just tested CA and it's a solid 460. Perfect spot. Every time I tested it's always between 440-460. Normally 440 before WC and after WC goes back to 460.

Now it's getting interesting; For the first 3,5 months it was always like that with ALK too. Always stable between 11.5 and 10.5 since I use Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. Never dosed. (FYI I just tested the fresh salt water batch and ALK is 11.5dkh so it's all good there).

I believe this huge deplation started since when I attached the CO2 remover to the hose of my skimmer to raise the ph. And my skimmer is a little bit on the "big side". Actually, my ph was fine too but I took it as an experiment to see if bring any improvements to my tank. At this point, I believe I should remove the CO2 remover from the skimmer and see how ALK and PH gonna act."

 

[Lavey29]

Thanks.

What would you do in this case then?

"I just tested CA and it's a solid 460. Perfect spot. Every time I tested it's always between 440-460. Normally 440 before WC and after WC goes back to 460.

Now it's getting interesting; For the first 3,5 months it was always like that with ALK too. Always stable between 11.5 and 10.5 since I use Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. Never dosed. (FYI I just tested the fresh salt water batch and ALK is 11.5dkh so it's all good there).

I believe this huge deplation started since when I attached the CO2 remover to the hose of my skimmer to raise the ph. And my skimmer is a little bit on the "big side". Actually, my ph was fine too but I took it as an experiment to see if bring any improvements to my tank. At this point, I believe I should remove the CO2 remover from the skimmer and see how ALK and PH gonna act."

If it ain't broke don't fix it. All your tank needs right now is weekly water changes with good salt. No dosing. As you get more corals over the coming months start hand dosing as needed for consumption replenish. It will get to a point where hand dosing is insufficient then you go to dosing pumps.

 

[Gabbone]

Got it. Then what to do now? Remove the CO2 scrubber right?

 

[Formulator]

Got it. Then what to do now? Remove the CO2 scrubber right?

No, I don’t think your CO2 scrubber has anything to do with it and it is beneficial to your pH stability. You are probably just losing bicarbonate to other biological processes which use it as a carbon source and maybe some precipitation in your new sand bed. I’d say just keep doing what your doing and dose the alk and calcium required to maintain parameters. This won’t likely be 1:1 ratio of alk to calcium dosing ain your new tank, so you will need to test both. You are fine to dose alk daily and do a weekly/biweekly correction for any calcium consumption you notice.

 

[Gabbone]

Sandbed it’s live sand, the caribsea pink fuji. It should not cause precipitation in a new tank? So it’s normal to have a 0.8dkh depletion x day?

 

[Formulator]

Sandbed it’s live sand, the caribsea pink fuji. It should not cause precipitation in a new tank? So it’s normal to have a 0.8dkh depletion x day?

Live sand is kind of a gimmic in my opinion. I’m sure there is some live bacteria in there, but there is not a dense biofilm covering every grain of sand that would be sufficient to inhibit calcium carbonate precipitation. It is a large surface area perfect for precipitation. You probably accelerated precipitation by raising your pH with the CO2 scrubber and once it gets started, the precipitate serves as a nucleation point for further precipitation in a vicious cycle that may need to be intentionally broken if severe.

Sorry, I keep going back and forth but after a quick refresher on calcium carbonate precipitation I’m kind of wondering if you should stop the scrubber for a couple days AND stop dosing anything for a couple days to see if your alk levels out. You also may want to check your magnesium if you haven’t already.

I’m kind of regurgitating advice Randy gave for precipitation issues in a similar thread I just found. You may want to take a look. Post #10 contains the expert advice from Randy.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/s...n-with-2-part-dosing-and-co2-scrubber.958845/

 

[Lavey29]

Sandbed it’s live sand, the caribsea pink fuji. It should not cause precipitation or not? So it’s normal to have a 0.8dkh deplation x day in a farly new tank?

If the processes in your tank are telling that 0.8 is being consumed then determine your preferred alk number and dose accordingly. Since you have a few larger corals they may be consuming alk but seems slightly high for the age of the tank and amount of coral but each tank is unique. I would just monitor alk every few days so you maintain your desired level and don't dose on water change days

 

[bkwonnn]

I was in the ugly stage for years. Then I battles Dino’s with a green killing machine and the tank has never looked better. Green killing machine is out of the tank after 2 months an no struggles anymore. I think it would be a perfect reset

 

[Gabbone]

Thank you guys for the tips.

In the end, I detached the CO2 scrubber.

It makes sense to me since the alk drop started from the time I attached the scrubber. After reading the other thread, I believe my tank is too young to use the scrubber.

Points of action:

- I need to see after 24h what’s gonna be the total ALK depletion. If less then 0.8dKh.
- I will monitor the PH during the day, afternoon and night to see if I have any big drops. (With the scrubber my ph was constantly at 8.3) but without it was between 8.1 and 8.3 so not bad anyway.
- Check how corals react.
- i just tested:
MG 1460
CA 460
dKh 9.2 (after I dosed this morning)
Ph: Still 8.3 after an hour I removed the scrubber.


I’ll keep you all posted and thank you again!

 

[Reef Puncher]

Couple things. I made the same mistake when i was first setting my lights. i was on about an 11 hour light schedule. i got some dino's too. i reduced down to a 6 hour full light period and a 3 hour ramp up/down. all that with no negative effects on corals. drastically and quickly ramping up will hurt corals but to my knowledge, a reduction wont hurt them. And for a couple hours at night, until about midnight, i have a moonlight mode. its such a low intensity and par that it basically doesnt count as light. so you dont have to turn off the moonlight mode. (not unless your moonlight is turned up to the max. for instance i have radions, and i set my moonlight at only 30% intensity. its not bright at all. its just enough so its not pitch black in there.

as far as the trace minerals. you really dont even need to be doing that. The people that need to dose trace elements are:

1 a. ) people who dont do frequent, or ANY, water changes.
1 b.) Someone with a 300+ gallon tank where water changes are just not feasible

2.) people with PACKED coral tanks, like the whole tank is just stuffed full of corals.

3.) someone who runs ICP tests and its determined they are deficient.



In your case, with a smaller tank size, simple high quality salt mixes will provide all the trace your tank needs assuming you do at least bi weekly water changes. you also dont have enough coral to soak up that many trace elements. you will end up getting an excess of metals and fuel diatom and algae. cut back on the light and trace and keep up water changes and you should be fine.

you could also just use all for reef too as your calc mag and alk needs, it contains all the trace you will need and in proper ratios. i personally use all for reef during the day and kalkwasser at night for the PH boost.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Thanks.

As I mentioned before:

"In the last couple of weeks I am dosing A LOT of Alk. I am having a depletion of around 0.8dKH every day but I believe this is due to the CO2 remover attached to my skimmer which increased the ph to 8.3 and therefore increase dkh depletion."

It's very weird because I am using the Red Sea Coral Pro Salt which has a dKh of 11.5. I had 11.5 alk for almost 4 months and now suddently stays between 8.5 and 9.2 with dosing Alk every day.

Test error?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

drastically and quickly ramping up will hurt corals

Can you post your source for this info?

 

[Reef Puncher]

Can you post your source for this info?

Every single tidal gardens video, even the möbius app itself which has an acclimation mode. The entire purpose is to take your corals slowly up to higher par values. A fast uptick in par will stress your corals.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Every single tidal gardens video, even the möbius app itself which has an acclimation mode. The entire purpose is to take your corals slowly up to higher par values. A fast uptick in par will stress your corals.

Hmmm... I guess i assumed you were talking about daily ramping to simulate dawn and dusk; corals definitely don't care about that.

It's true that too long of a photo period can damage corals, and my understanding is that "ramping" is more for us, to allow the lights to be on longer without causing that stress/damage.

Sorry for any confusion.

 

[PharmrJohn]

Get yourself some good CUC! get some nassarius snails, some cerith snails, some blue legged hermit crabs, and maybe a diamond goby. All of these will help keep your sandbed stirred up, and clean. The cerith snails will clean algae thru out. If you get the hermit crabs, get plenty of extra shells. Otherwise they will kill your snails for their shells.

LOL. Back when I didn't know anything I actually put some extra shells in, just because they looked cool. Then one of my hermits must have grown cause one day it was in another shell. The shell was too big for it, but it got around anyway. I was amazed (it's the little things in life!).

 

[Gabbone]

Gonna give you a quick updates guys;

After pulling my CO2 scrubber, my alk deplation IMMEDIATELY stopped.

It has been now 3 days where depletion has been reduced from 0.8-1.0dkh per day to 0.1-0.2dkh per day; Ph has been consistently at 8.2-8.3

That's another lesson learnt. I guess it was just too much for my tank.

Kind regards
Gabriele

 

[Reef Puncher]

Gonna give you a quick updates guys;

After pulling my CO2 scrubber, my alk deplation IMMEDIATELY stopped.

It has been now 3 days where depletion has been reduced from 0.8-1.0dkh per day to 0.1-0.2dkh per day; Ph has been consistently at 8.2-8.3

That's another lesson learnt. I guess it was just too much for my tank.

Kind regards
Gabriele

glad you found that out, i just would love to know how that works. for me if anything my alk is too high and i use a scrubber. i never noticed a difference in alk from mine. thats odd, maybe its just not right for your tank i dunno.