2 clownfish/ happened overnight. Any advice?

[Jay Hemdal]

2 clownish look this way overnight. They are swimming at the surface. My dog face puffer is scratching on sand and rocks allot. Any thoughts of what this is and what I should do?

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Can you post a video of these fish? linking to a public YouTube video works if you are not able to upload one directly.

This could be Brooklynella.....

Jay

 

[Lavey29]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Can you post a video of these fish? linking to a public YouTube video works if you are not able to upload one directly.

This could be Brooklynella.....

Jay

I think his 2 fish showing symptoms passed already. Remaining fish not symptomatic yet.

 

[Freeze 15]

I think his 2 fish showing symptoms passed already. Remaining fish not symptomatic yet.

Well both clowns passed this morning. Since then, I’ve been getting tank and filters ready for copper. Started at 1.0 with copper power. Both blue jaw triggers and dog faced puffer are absolutely covered in spots now. No other fish in the tank have anything but I did notice a damsel and a goby with fins splitting alittle. I did a fresh water 5 min dip on the 3 fish that are covered. Seemed to help the puffer, seemed to make the triggers a bit angry. The puffer is the only fish not interested in eating tonight. Will get pics of those 3 in the morning and add them

 

[Lavey29]

Well both clowns passed this morning. Since then, I’ve been getting tank and filters ready for copper. Started at 1.0 with copper power. Both blue jaw triggers and dog faced puffer are absolutely covered in spots now. No other fish in the tank have anything but I did notice a damsel and a goby with fins splitting alittle. I did a fresh water 5 min dip on the 3 fish that are covered. Seemed to help the puffer, seemed to make the triggers a bit angry. The puffer is the only fish not interested in eating tonight. Will get pics of those 3 in the morning and add them

Pics and short video can help Jay definitively diagnose the disease for you and best course of treatment.

Keep in mind Brooklynella is treated with formulin and velvet or ich with copper I believe so you need to positive on the diagnosis.

 

[Freeze 15]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Can you post a video of these fish? linking to a public YouTube video works if you are not able to upload one directly.

This could be Brooklynella.....

Jay

Pics and short video can help Jay definitively diagnose the disease for you and best course of treatment.

Keep in mind Brooklynella is treated with formulin and velvet or ich with copper I believe so you need to positive on the diagnosis.

 

[Freeze 15]

So here are the pics of the triggers and puffer. Triggers look better this morning. The puffer has less spots but very lethargic and likes to just stay attached to the pump pickup. Thoughts?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So here are the pics of the triggers and puffer. Triggers look better this morning. The puffer has less spots but very lethargic and likes to just stay attached to the pump pickup. Thoughts?

This looks like moderately advanced marine ich. You need to get to 2.5 ppm copper power ASAP without overshooting that limit.

Please understand that once fish loss has occurred with a protozoan disease, copper does not always work fast enough to save all of the remaining fish....

Jay

 

[Freeze 15]

This looks like moderately advanced marine ich. You need to get to 2.5 ppm copper power ASAP without overshooting that limit.

Please understand that once fish loss has occurred with a protozoan disease, copper does not always work fast enough to save all of the remaining fish....

Jay

When you read posts and opinions is so hard to figure out what is the right move. I’ve seen several places no more than 2.0 copper power for puffers and gobies. Also read allot that the copper needs to be ramped up and not taken up to 2-2.5 too quickly. What is your thoughts on that?

 

[Lavey29]

This looks like moderately advanced marine ich. You need to get to 2.5 ppm copper power ASAP without overshooting that limit.

Please understand that once fish loss has occurred with a protozoan disease, copper does not always work fast enough to save all of the remaining fish....

Jay

Did you see the pics in the opening post of his clowns? That's not ich on them, it's brook so is it possible there are 2 different infections in his tank? That is very remote right or is it more common then I realize? I'm one of those that believes ich is in every tank though but in a dormant state until a stressful event causes it to become active.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Did you see the pics in the opening post of his clowns? That's not ich on them, it's brook so is it possible there are 2 different infections in his tank? That is very remote right or is it more common then I realize? I'm one of those that believes ich is in every tank though but in a dormant state until a stressful event causes it to become active.

It could be Brooklynella, but "stale ich" is tough to tell apart, as it produces a lot of mucus and you no longer can see the individual trophonts. In most cases, when a clown dies from Brook, you'll see telltale sheets of mucus peeling off the fish. Cloudy, congested skin, without peeling mucus is less clearly Brook, and can be ich. that. combined with the spots on the trigger led me to think copper would be the best way to go.

Dual infections are pretty rare, but can happen....

Jay

 

[Freeze 15]

It could be Brooklynella, but "stale ich" is tough to tell apart, as it produces a lot of mucus and you no longer can see the individual trophonts. In most cases, when a clown dies from Brook, you'll see telltale sheets of mucus peeling off the fish. Cloudy, congested skin, without peeling mucus is less clearly Brook, and can be ich. that. combined with the spots on the trigger led me to think copper would be the best way to go.

Dual infections are pretty rare, but can happen....

Jay

 

[Freeze 15]

It maybe wishful thinking but but got copper up to 2.5 and the puffer finally just came out to eat a clam. He’s actually swimming for the first time in days. Not sure copper works this fast but it’s good to see the puffer eat again

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It maybe wishful thinking but but got copper up to 2.5 and the puffer finally just came out to eat a clam. He’s actually swimming for the first time in days. Not sure copper works this fast but it’s good to see the puffer eat again

Copper usually takes 2 to 3 days to really start to work, but maybe?
Jay

 

[Freeze 15]

Copper usually takes 2 to 3 days to really start to work, but maybe?
Jay

Update: blue tang, porcupine and coral beauty Angel now shows spots. The male and female triggers are looking worse Andy very lethargic to start with and the dog face is looking worse. Copper at 2.35. The male trigger body looked about skinny or stinger this morning till he started moving around and that fell off. Noticing a few fish fins look like pieces missing or splitting. The male trigger has a spot in his side maybe a bruise. If copper is rough on the fish, should I be using metro or anything to help? Still think ich?

 

[Freeze 15]

Update: blue tang, porcupine and coral beauty Angel now shows spots. The male and female triggers are looking worse Andy very lethargic to start with and the dog face is looking worse. Copper at 2.35. The male trigger body looked about skinny or stinger this morning till he started moving around and that fell off. Noticing a few fish fins look like pieces missing or splitting. The male trigger has a spot in his side maybe a bruise. If copper is rough on the fish, should I be using metro or anything to help? Still think ich?

 

[Freeze 15]

Sorry I meant the male trigger body looked stringy and slimy till he started swimming acting then it fell off. Some of the fish gills E looking red like the scissor tail in the picture

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry I meant the male trigger body looked stringy and slimy till he started swimming acting then it fell off. Some of the fish gills E looking red like the scissor tail in the picture

This is where our remote treatment of your fish is difficult. I'm looking over your pictures and it just struck me - you have like 2" of coral sand in the tank that you are dosing with copper! That opens up a whole slew of issues and questions: Calcium carbonate materials bind with copper medications to different levels, but it always something to be avoided. What test kit are you using to measure the current, active copper level?

This does still look like "stale ich", cases where ich has been on the fish for some time. As I said, there possibly could be a dual infection, but 100% you need to treat these fish with copper. Amine-based copper, like you are using aren't very harsh at all, but that means they also take more time to cure the fish....in some cases, they do not work fast enough to save all of the fish if the copper wasn't started soon enough.

You also need to ensure you are managing the water quality very well. The water looks very hazy to me (could just be an artifact of the photos) you need to have good mechanical filtration and then biological filtration sufficient to keep the ammonia level below 0.50 ppm. Do not add ammonia removing chemicals while dosing copper.

Jay

 

[Freeze 15]

This does still look like "stale ich", cases where ich has been on the fish for some time. As I said, there possibly could be a dual infection, but 100% you need to treat these fish with copper. Amine-based copper, like you are using aren't very harsh at all, but that means they also take more time to cure the fish....in some cases, they do not work fast enough to save all of the fish if the copper wasn't started soon enough.

You also need to ensure you are managing the water quality very well. The water looks very hazy to me (could just be an artifact of the photos) you need to have good mechanical filtration and then biological filtration sufficient to keep the ammonia level below 0.50 ppm. Do not add ammonia removing chemicals while dosing copper.

Jay

This is where our remote treatment of your fish is difficult. I'm looking over your pictures and it just struck me - you have like 2" of coral sand in the tank that you are dosing with copper! That opens up a whole slew of issues and questions: Calcium carbonate materials bind with copper medications to different levels, but it always something to be avoided. What test kit are you using to measure the current, active copper level?

This does still look like "stale ich", cases where ich has been on the fish for some time. As I said, there possibly could be a dual infection, but 100% you need to treat these fish with copper. Amine-based copper, like you are using aren't very harsh at all, but that means they also take more time to cure the fish....in some cases, they do not work fast enough to save all of the fish if the copper wasn't started soon enough.

You also need to ensure you are managing the water quality very well. The water looks very hazy to me (could just be an artifact of the photos) you need to have good mechanical filtration and then biological filtration sufficient to keep the ammonia level below 0.50 ppm. Do not add ammonia removing chemicals while dosing copper.

Jay

After removing rock and inverts water got cloudy for sure. Glass needs cleaning but my focus has been on meds more than the looks at the moment. What is your opinion on supper ich cure or paraguard in the early stages? I’ve got a powder blue in a qt with some spots on fins after being in there a couple weeks with no issues.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

After removing rock and inverts water got cloudy for sure. Glass needs cleaning but my focus has been on meds more than the looks at the moment. What is your opinion on supper ich cure or paraguard in the early stages? I’ve got a powder blue in a qt with some spots on fins after being in there a couple weeks with no issues.

Neither Super Ich cure or Paraguard have a good track record treating marine ich. I use them both for FW ich, but never for Cryptocaryon like this,.

Jay

 

[Freeze 15]

I guess my last question would be hyposalinity ?