0.7 Phosphates, time for GFO?

[Reef keeper 103]

Our reference point is the coral reefs where these corals come from. Don't need a marine biology degree to match natural seawater. Many trace elements have been studied and their biological functions are known (to a degree). Other trace elements present have no currently known biological function. I'd recommend some more research.

We can’t really recreate the exact same thing in the home aquaria. 6,000 par crashing surge flow. It’s not possible for us to recreate.

 

[One Reefing Boi]

Can you tell us a little about the tank? What methods do you currently use to export phosphate?

Not GFO
Lanthanum chloride?
Carbon dosing?
Refugium?

I'm not an expert by any means, but pictures would also help those that are

Hey sorry, life got in the way a bit. Been doing triton methods no WC in a long time, dose major and minor elements with red seas products. It’s an AIO so no fuge or skimmer or anything fancy. I just have 2 filter rollers and some bio balls. My one sps has turned all green and is now dealing with RTN. Here is a picture of it now vs a few weeks back

Now

A Few weeks ago

I’m also not sure why it lost its oranges/yellows/reds and is pretty much all green now.

Really hoping I can save this frag, one of my favorites

Lighting is 2x AI Blade Grows maxed around 55% (this frag and top of rock work is getting about 280 par based on my Apagee Par meter). Schedule of that is below

Flow is an MP10 and Nero 3 on opposite sides random flow all day. Flow shouldn’t be an issue.

Haven’t changed anything in months (lighting or flow).

Heated with 2 Aqueon Pro’s attached to an INKBIRD controller and temp is stable between 78.2 and 78.7

I use an ATO to keep everything stable.

RO is BRS 5 stage and I get 0 TDS from that.

Salinity is ~1.026 (34-35ppm? I forget the other unit)

Stocking is light - 2 cardinals, Royal gramma, and McKoskers wrasse. Had 2 clowns but had to return them to fish store because of aggression issues. This is why I dose nitrates using NeoNitro (nitrate had been 0 for awhile). Planning to add more fish soon once they’re out of QT. Adding 2 mandarins first (in QT rn), then 2 more wrasse (yellow and possum) down the road.

Tank is 4+ years old and my other sps are doing “okay” (growing but not super vibrant) and my LPS, zoas, and mushrooms are growing like weeds.

Also, my other SPS are all turning green. Like I’m losing their other colors like in the picture above, but is happening to several of my sticks. Any ideas for that?

I’ll do more testing for params when I get home from work today.

Some picture of the rest of the tank

 

[One Reefing Boi]

 

[Seansea]

Lets start with the phos. Phos .7 is too high for sticks. The lps and softies wont mind it and in fact will prob thrive in it. You have to find balance with mixxed reef. I like to hover betwwen .1 and .2. seems to be point where all the corals can deal with it. Now with no skimmer and no fuge or ats your nutrient export is poor. Bio balls while great at denitrifying create phos and alot of time nitrates which nitrate doesnt seem to be issue for you. So i would start a regular water change program. 10% weekly would probably be best. But i find lanthum chloride by reputable company best way to reduce. Gfo can strip to fast. Start with slow dosing of it and figure out how much you need to regular dose it and get to your target zone. Dont use pool company products. Prob has other harmful crap in it you wont want.

Also whats your ph? With no fuge or co2 scrubber your ph might be nose diving. I find sticks do not like to dive below 8.0.

What are you using to get alk up? Do you 3 part dose? AFR? Kalk? Alk of 6 is too low in my opinion.

Also like someone said trace elements are important. With no water changes you could be deficient in one or many traces.

That coral is beautiful color. Hate to see you lose it.

 

[Wayofthereef]

As title says, I’ve been having Phopshates creep up and up with no luck on making it stop. Time for GFO? My sps are starting to lose a bit of color but still are growing and have good PE. Dosing nitrates as well and trying to get them above 10

Alk: 6 (raising slowly to about 9.5)
Calc: 410
Mag: 1455
PO4 0.7 (not 0.07)
NO3 6.0

All tested using Hannah testers

With this numbers I would skip lowering you phosphates and raise you nitrate to 15 - 20 ppm... definitely work on that DKH.. with daily adjustments of no more than 1.5DKH it should take 2 days to get that adjusted to 9. Just my 2 pennies.

 

[Reefering1]

Completely OT but do they though? The actual scientific proof for that is fairly lackluster.

Counterpoint: 2-3 decades ago we were keeping thriving reef tanks without so much as a thought of trace elements and no way to replenish them if you don’t count water changes…which isn’t a feasible way to maintain them in anything but the smallest of systems.

To this point... years ago calcium reactors were king, coral skeletons we melted and effluent went into the tank providing everything the corals need. You didn't need to know about trace elements

 

[One Reefing Boi]

Let’s start with the phos. Phos .7 is too high for sticks. The lps and softies wont mind it and in fact will prob thrive in it. You have to find balance with mixxed reef. I like to hover betwwen .1 and .2. seems to be point where all the corals can deal with it. Now with no skimmer and no fuge or ats your nutrient export is poor. Bio balls while great at denitrifying create phos and alot of time nitrates which nitrate doesnt seem to be issue for you. So i would start a regular water change program. 10% weekly would probably be best. But i find lanthum chloride by reputable company best way to reduce. Gfo can strip to fast. Start with slow dosing of it and figure out how much you need to regular dose it and get to your target zone. Dont use pool company products. Prob has other harmful crap in it you wont want.

Also whats your ph? With no fuge or co2 scrubber your ph might be nose diving. I find sticks do not like to dive below 8.0.

What are you using to get alk up? Do you 3 part dose? AFR? Kalk? Alk of 6 is too low in my opinion.

Also like someone said trace elements are important. With no water changes you could be deficient in one or many traces.

That coral is beautiful color. Hate to see you lose it.

Yeah the Po4 is high and I’ll look into the lanthum to give it a shot. Since it’s an AIO I don’t have room for a reactor so not even sure how effective GFO would be.

Not sure about PH - never have tested it and don’t have a test kit for it. I’ll look into grabbing one.

Alk I use RedSea’s liquid alkalinity (not sure if it has a name) and dose (now) via a RedSea dosing pump. Been working to get it up, raising it about 0.3-0.4 a day as to not stress the corals. I’m also using RedSeas trace elements (the four pack one) every once and awhile. No way to test those so bit more cautious about that.

With this numbers I would skip lowering you phosphates and raise you nitrate to 15 - 20 ppm... definitely work on that DKH.. with daily adjustments of no more than 1.5DKH it should take 2 days to get that adjusted to 9. Just my 2 pennies.

I’m raising it a bit slower (0.3-0.4 dKH a day to avoid further stress on the coral) aiming for the 9-10 range with a dosing pump keeping things stable. I’m also trying to raise nitrate (hence the dosing) so I’m just not sure how fast I want to raise that.

 

[Reef keeper 103]

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[Wayofthereef]

Yeah the Po4 is high and I’ll look into the lanthum to give it a shot. Since it’s an AIO I don’t have room for a reactor so not even sure how effective GFO would be.

Not sure about PH - never have tested it and don’t have a test kit for it. I’ll look into grabbing one.

Alk I use RedSea’s liquid alkalinity (not sure if it has a name) and dose (now) via a RedSea dosing pump. Been working to get it up, raising it about 0.3-0.4 a day as to not stress the corals. I’m also using RedSeas trace elements (the four pack one) every once and awhile. No way to test those so bit more cautious about that.



I’m raising it a bit slower (0.3-0.4 dKH a day to avoid further stress on the coral) aiming for the 9-10 range with a dosing pump keeping things stable. I’m also trying to raise nitrate (hence the dosing) so I’m just not sure how fast I want to raise that

Yeah the Po4 is high and I’ll look into the lanthum to give it a shot. Since it’s an AIO I don’t have room for a reactor so not even sure how effective GFO would be.

Not sure about PH - never have tested it and don’t have a test kit for it. I’ll look into grabbing one.

Alk I use RedSea’s liquid alkalinity (not sure if it has a name) and dose (now) via a RedSea dosing pump. Been working to get it up, raising it about 0.3-0.4 a day as to not stress the corals. I’m also using RedSeas trace elements (the four pack one) every once and awhile. No way to test those so bit more cautious about that.



I’m raising it a bit slower (0.3-0.4 dKH a day to avoid further stress on the coral) aiming for the 9-10 range with a dosing pump keeping things stable. I’m also trying to raise nitrate (hence the dosing) so I’m just not sure how fast I want to raise that.

Are you familiar with Bulk Reef supplies supplements? They are fairly inexpensive and using soda ash and their calculator you get very precise results. The absolute maximum you should raise your DKH in a 24 hr period is 1.5 DKH. I run a mixed reef system that has acropora on down to softies. In the rare even that I have to make an adjustment thats the route I take... with kalkwasser thats not something i usually have to dose.

Nitrate can be a funny thing but gradually bring it up should come over the course of a couple days especially if your system hasnt been higher. GFO is surprisingly very efficient at exporting phosphate if you are choosing a lower nutrient system.

In my case Im trying to farm corals so all my numbers are elevated and its a thin line to walk but the growth is insane.

 

[One Reefing Boi]

Are you familiar with Bulk Reef supplies supplements? They are fairly inexpensive and using soda ash and their calculator you get very precise results. The absolute maximum you should raise your DKH in a 24 hr period is 1.5 DKH. I run a mixed reef system that has acropora on down to softies. In the rare even that I have to make an adjustment thats the route I take... with kalkwasser thats not something i usually have to dose.

Nitrate can be a funny thing but gradually bring it up should come over the course of a couple days especially if your system hasnt been higher. GFO is surprisingly very efficient at exporting phosphate if you are choosing a lower nutrient system.

In my case Im trying to farm corals so all my numbers are elevated and its a thin line to walk but the growth is insane.

Yeah I am familiar with them, will do more research into them though.

And yeah I might be a bit more aggressive with nitrate dosing to get it over 10, but I’m sure I’ll get an algae explosion as well because of it

 

[One Reefing Boi]

Anyone have thoughts on this product? Quantum AR Phopshate remover?

 

[Troylee]

Anyone have thoughts on this product? Quantum AR Phopshate remover?

Being and all in one if you truly wanna get po4 down I think your safest and best bet would be rawaphos in a mesh bag in one of the back compartments! Go a little at a time as it’s potent..

 

[ReefHunter006]

The point I was hanging on to was the point you made, not what you meant to say or should have said.

You said if the op did a 50% water change the po4 lvl would drop to 50% which is not the case, you then corrected yourself, which was good for those that may have followed your first statement and not got the results you claimed they should have gotten.

I agree with you, I would at the very least have attempted to caution OP against what would happen. All it would take is for op to do the water change only to realize what he was told by reefingdream was wrong, then come back here and say it didn’t work, only of which then would reefingdream reply with that clarifying piece of information, if he actually knew that prior to this.

Seems weird to me to speak that matter of fact when the outcome of a 50% reduction is not the likely outcome without unusual circumstances.

It was an important point he left out that made his prior point not as useful.

 

[Wayofthereef]

Yeah I am familiar with them, will do more research into them though.

And yeah I might be a bit more aggressive with nitrate dosing to get it over 10, but I’m sure I’ll get an algae explosion as well because of it

There are many ways to skin a cat.. one tank can be absolutely stunning and have zero nitrates and phosphates and nother can have 20ppm nitrate and .2 phosphates and be thriving as well.. I have to dose phosphates everyday or it will tank to zero in a day or 2... for me I notice my phosphates have gotten low when algea starts to get thick on everything but when Im elevated i clean the glass every other day... its so crazy how things are different from one system to another...

Salinity 1.025-1.026
DKH 10-11
CAL 400-450
MAG 1400-1450
NITRATE 20-30
PHOSPHATE .1 TO .25 AND IVE BEEN AS HIGH AS .35

I have an algea scrubber and a 20 gallon macro algea tank with grow lights running 24-7. But for you GFO is the way to go... expensive but probably the only way based on how much room you have.

 

[Pistondog]

Anyone have thoughts on this product? Quantum AR Phopshate remover?

Another lanthanum product.

 

[One Reefing Boi]

Another lanthanum product.

Oh this is one of those products mentioning about above? I guess IG is listening cause I got this on my feed today

 

[One Reefing Boi]

Oh I should probably add I had acro bugs (white I believe) and I dosed interceptor for it and it worked well for it. Not sure if this would have any impact with things. Dosed back in late Feb

 

[Reef.]

I agree with you, I would at the very least have attempted to caution OP against what would happen. All it would take is for op to do the water change only to realize what he was told by reefingdream was wrong, then come back here and say it didn’t work, only of which then would reefingdream reply with that clarifying piece of information, if he actually knew that prior to this.

Seems weird to me to speak that matter of fact when the outcome of a 50% reduction is not the likely outcome without unusual circumstances.

It was an important point he left out that made his prior point not as useful.

Thank you for breaking that down, that was exactly the point I was wanting the OP and others to get from my comment…multiple 50% water changes can be very expensive and time consuming, letting someone know what they are getting into before they start can only help.