Zoa issue help

alindell · Jun 29, 2024

So this issue has been an ongoing issue for about a month now. Most of my zoa's will open for a few hours in the morning and then close during higher light Intensity later in the day and basically remained closed for the rest of the day until morning. I was thinking it was my lighting but I haven't changed my lighting and they were doing great before. Then one day I noticed they werent doing so good and most of them closed up.

I noticed I had an angel fish pick on a couple polyps but that was awhile ago and I have watched my tank for hours and the angel no longer picks on them. My parameters are all good. My acros and other corals seem fine except a black bug issue going on but that's a separate issue. I don't see Zoa pox and can't see any pests. Might be bacterial or protozoan.

If anybody has any ideas or has dealt with this before please give me some insight. Why would they open in the morning and then close in the afternoon when the lights get brighter even though they were fine with the same lighting before. One frag looked like it had some black bugs on them put those are always closed, but the other frags do t seem to have them and they open up but are closed later in the evening with no apparent pests. Should I dip these? What to use?

TX_REEF · Jun 30, 2024

Hello! "all good" parameters is great, but what are they exactly? That will help us diagnose. Also, have you considered reducing the lighting intensity increase?

alindell · Jun 30, 2024

TX_REEF said:
Hello! "all good" parameters is great, but what are they exactly? That will help us diagnose. Also, have you considered reducing the lighting intensity increase?

I raised the lights a little to see if that makes a difference. Last time I checked parameters are

8.1 ph
8.5 to 9 alk
450 cal
1250 to 1300 mag
5 nitrate
.04 phos

I really don't think the parameters are an issue. Zoa's can live in a variety of conditions. All the other corals are growing and doing fine. I have a black bug issue, but it really doesn't seem to bother most of the corals...they still grow and maintain color. I'm going to dose interceptor soon.

Mr. Mojo Rising · Jun 30, 2024

if you can share some pics it really helps....

alindell · Jun 30, 2024

Before and after
The after shot is not the best true picture of what they look like now. The bam bams and yellow ones next to them 80% close up later in the day. I can get a pic later on

Same lighting same conditions

alindell · Jun 30, 2024

You can see how the rastas in the back are mainly closed.

alindell · Jun 30, 2024

They use to be big and puffy, they had their tentacles out and now they seem flat and tentacles retracted.

Mr. Mojo Rising · Jun 30, 2024

wow thats a nice tank dude! I don't know, I'm actually losing my rasta's too. But I think the bowser's are killing them and taking over the rock. I don't see warfare in your pic.

I wish you good luck, I hope you can save them.

alindell · Jun 30, 2024

Thanks. Yah a lot of things are doing good except some stupid black on my SPS but honestly the sos don't seem bothered except my forest fire which couldn't handle them. It's mainly co fined to montipora and my stags. I'm still going to try a d rid them using interceptor. I was hoping that might help the zoa's too

Here is a morning pic I just took.

By the afternoon when my supplemental t5s cone on and the light is more white they close up. It would make sense if this issue was lighting but it doesn't because they were growing great and looking great when the lights were the same so I don't think it's lighting or the basic water chemistry. I think there are a few things that I speculate it could be.

A pest that either I can't see easily with my eye or something that is only seen under a microscope like bacteria or protozoan. I wish someone could help me with identifying if it's a bacterial or protozoan issue if they have had something like this before. Another one could be something in the water im unaware of like something from my ro water or silicates. Low iodine maybe or something is high that shouldn't be idk?? I have ordered an ati ICP test and will send that in. I'll post the results here

alindell · Jun 30, 2024

Morning pic. You can see how most of them are open and seem fine except for the rastae which are only half open. By the middle of the day these zoas will be closed up about 80%. The palythoa don't close up though. I'm going to nit turn on my t5s today and see what effect that has

Ziggy17 · Jun 30, 2024

What is your PAR where the zoas are?

alindell · Jun 30, 2024

Ziggy17 said:
What is your PAR where the zoas are?

I have no idea. I don't have a par measuring tool. They are just lower in the tank and get a good amount of flow to blow off detritus.

alindell · Jun 30, 2024

So I decreased light by 5% raised up the light like an inch and increased flow. They still close up later in the day.

Ziggy17 · Jul 1, 2024

alindell said:
So I decreased light by 5% raised up the light like an inch and increased flow. They still close up later in the day.

I’ve noticed that bristle worms on my zoa rock garden annoys them a little and they close up. Same with my cleaner shrimp. But that wouldn’t explain your situation. I’d bet it’s the light as well. If that’s the only thing that’s really changed.

alindell · Jul 1, 2024

Ziggy17 said:
I’ve noticed that bristle worms on my zoa rock garden annoys them a little and they close up. Same with my cleaner shrimp. But that wouldn’t explain your situation. I’d bet it’s the light as well. If that’s the only thing that’s really changed.

Well I never messed with it that much. It's been the same and then randomly I get all these zoas closing up. So I'm trying to reduce it to see if that helps

alindell · Jul 2, 2024

Okay I think I figured out what the issue is. It's not the lighting. That might play a bigger issue into it as the thing that's stressing them out is actually black bugs/mites. I saw some on the zoas that are closed up. I didn't see them before, but now I do and it's stressing them out and I'm thinking the light might not help either since I have a lot of light in the tank. Stress but too much light compounds to make it a bigger issue. I didn't think zoas could be affected by these black copepods, but I guess they can. They have mainly restricted themselves to montipora and my stags. Which seems to be unaffected.

Good news is I have observed them die in Bayer and coral rx. Someone else suggested melafix and revive can get them too.

The issue is dipping them is hard as there are too many frags and they are attached to the rock, so id have to dip the whole rock. Even if I do that, they will just come back. I have order interceptor for large dogs 23 mg of the active ingredient melbecyin oxime a few days ago. I've read this is a good way to kill them permanently with 3 weeks of use. It just sucks I had to order it from Canadapetcare.com and it takes like 2 weeks to get here because local vets do not give out prescriptions for it for corals. Although an exotic animal hospital was going to have me bring in a frag and most likely write a prescription but they wanted $150 and that still doesn't guarantee a prescription and if have to drive an hour plus...balao id still have to order it or something as most vets even with a prescription wont give you the medication unless you establish care with them. That probably entails a fee...So $70 online for some interceptor from canada isn't much of a compromise of timing but saves a little on price.

Can anyone give me some first hand experience fighting these black bugs using interceptor?? What were the results, side effects, and issues? Did it work? I know that interceptor can kill crabs and shrimp, copepods which is whatever. Does it kill anything else to worry about in a reef tank? Are my starfish, clams and fish okay?

alindell · Jul 2, 2024

Also just for anyone following. These are tiny barely visible, basically microscopic black copepods. They are not slugs and they move quickly for their size across the coral. I have seen them on 2 of my acros, almost all of my montipora and now my zoas. I guess they are similar to red bugs but a little harder to kill. I'm going to use one 23 mg pill of dog deheartwormer called interceptor. Instructions say to use 1 pill for like 380 to 400 gallons of water. Since my tank is probably 120 gallons after dispersion I'll say it's in the ball park of 4x the amount for 1 pill which is what is called for black bugs.

My plan is to mix up 1 pill in warm RO water. Turn off UV light, unplug skimmer air line so the pump can still run and turn off carbon reactor try to remove crabs and shrimp but if I can't I can't. Then add the mixture to the display tank and wait 24 hours. Afterwards do a 20% water change and resume normal operation. I'll do this once a week for 3 weeks. I've heard it's not so much the amount of interceptor it's the amount overtime that kills them. I've read you can go as high as 10x. I'm not doing that for this treatment

Does anybody have any advice, tips or tricks to give me?