Yellow Banded Possum Wrasse acting strange

[Kruss7]

I have a Yellow Banded Possum Wrasse that is in a QT with a firefish and a yellow watchman. Fish have went through full metro and prazi. They are in 2.27ppm copper (ramped up over a week) for 3 days. The Possum wrasse stopped eating frozen yesterday (was an agressive eater and hung out where I put in frozen food all the time) and now is hiding all the time. It is also laying down on its side inside the pvc pipes. If I get close to the pipe or shine a light in the pipe the possum wrasse pops back up and moves and hides again. Not sure what I should do? Is this a copper intolerance? Should I move the fish out of copper? I’ve had this fish for 3 weeks now. (white specks are on glass not fish)

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a Yellow Banded Possum Wrasse that is in a QT with a firefish and a yellow watchman. Fish have went through full metro and prazi. They are in 2.27ppm copper (ramped up over a week) for 3 days. The Possum wrasse stopped eating frozen yesterday (was an agressive eater and hung out where I put in frozen food all the time) and now is hiding all the time. It is also laying down on its side inside the pvc pipes. If I get close to the pipe or shine a light in the pipe the possum wrasse pops back up and moves and hides again. Not sure what I should do? Is this a copper intolerance? Should I move the fish out of copper? I’ve had this fish for 3 weeks now. (white specks are on glass not fish)

A couple of issues here. Its too easy to use metro , yet it has to be administered precisely as its easily overdosed. Additionally it makes food taste bitter and is mainly for internal issues and prazi would accomplish the same. Prazi can also be overdosed and how did you apply the prazi and for how long?
Moving forward, you ramped the copper which is a no-no as ramping the copper can allow a given disease to gain resistance making it harder to treat given disease. You wanted to get to the full treatment level as soon as possible.
Part of the issue is too many meds and perhaps the wrong meds were added in a short amount of time called a chase method.
How are you measuring the copper?
What is ammonia level in this tank?

 

[Kruss7]

A couple of issues here. Its too easy to use metro , yet it has to be administered precisely as its easily overdosed. Additionally it makes food taste bitter and is mainly for internal issues and prazi would accomplish the same. Prazi can also be overdosed and how did you apply the prazi and for how long?
Moving forward, you ramped the copper which is a no-no as ramping the copper can allow a given disease to gain resistance making it harder to treat given disease. You wanted to get to the full treatment level as soon as possible.
Part of the issue is too many meds and perhaps the wrong meds were added in a short amount of time called a chase method.
How are you measuring the copper?
What is ammonia level in this tank?

I used the metro because I was worried about Uronema as I had an Anthias in there that caught it and killed it, wasn’t for internal.

I dosed prazi into water, waited 24 hours did a water change, redosed day 6, 24 hours water change. Metro and prazi were not at the same time, over a day apart. No meds were at the same time. Like I’ve said I have had this fish for at least 3 weeks

Interesting on the copper I keep hearing conflicting opinions on ramping it up especially for wrasses and other sensitive fish.

Copper is with a Hannah and Ammonia definitely isn’t an issue as it’s all display tank water and been changed today with water at the same copper level.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I used the metro because I was worried about Uronema as I had an Anthias in there that caught it and killed it, wasn’t for internal.

I dosed prazi into water, waited 24 hours did a water change, redosed day 6, 24 hours water change. Metro and prazi were not at the same time, over a day apart. No meds were at the same time. Like I’ve said I have had this fish for at least 3 weeks

Interesting on the copper I keep hearing conflicting opinions on ramping it up especially for wrasses and other sensitive fish.

Copper is with a Hannah and Ammonia definitely isn’t an issue as it’s all display tank water and been changed today with water at the same copper level.

Ramping copper was an old method and was used for cupramine (ionic copper, not coppersafe)
For Prazi, you wanted to dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
You also wanted to use an airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, you would want to leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I used the metro because I was worried about Uronema as I had an Anthias in there that caught it and killed it, wasn’t for internal.

I dosed prazi into water, waited 24 hours did a water change, redosed day 6, 24 hours water change. Metro and prazi were not at the same time, over a day apart. No meds were at the same time. Like I’ve said I have had this fish for at least 3 weeks

Interesting on the copper I keep hearing conflicting opinions on ramping it up especially for wrasses and other sensitive fish.

Copper is with a Hannah and Ammonia definitely isn’t an issue as it’s all display tank water and been changed today with water at the same copper level.

When a fish suddenly stops eating, that is a very serious symptom, but is basically a symptom of most fish issues. I use feeding response as my primary diagnostic.

The slow ramp up of copper is only needed when using ionic copper products. That ramp up was four partial doses over 48 hours. That was for some sensitive fish; harlequin tusks and flame angels for example. That basic information got warped and changed by people online until it reached an extreme case like you followed. Amine based copper can be safely brought to full dose with two accurate additions over 12 to 24 hours. The reason not to delay is that the fish have no protection against protozoans until the dose hits 2ppm. With a slow ramp up, the fish can get sick before then.

Metronidazole does not seem to work against Uronema. Chloroquine has been shown to kill external Uronema, but no treatment seems to work against the inter cellular form.

I can’t see anything in the photos, I know small fish are tough to photograph. Is the wrasse breathing rapidly? If you aren’t sure, if you post a clear video and I can get a sense of its breathing from that.

 

[Kruss7]

When a fish suddenly stops eating, that is a very serious symptom, but is basically a symptom of most fish issues. I use feeding response as my primary diagnostic.

The slow ramp up of copper is only needed when using ionic copper products. That ramp up was four partial doses over 48 hours. That was for some sensitive fish; harlequin tusks and flame angels for example. That basic information got warped and changed by people online until it reached an extreme case like you followed. Amine based copper can be safely brought to full dose with two accurate additions over 12 to 24 hours. The reason not to delay is that the fish have no protection against protozoans until the dose hits 2ppm. With a slow ramp up, the fish can get sick before then.

Metronidazole does not seem to work against Uronema. Chloroquine has been shown to kill external Uronema, but no treatment seems to work against the inter cellular form.

I can’t see anything in the photos, I know small fish are tough to photograph. Is the wrasse breathing rapidly? If you aren’t sure, if you post a clear video and I can get a sense of its breathing from that.

Interesting, I will make sure I don’t do that with copper again! Thanks for the info!

Here is some videos, he picked at something there? Thanks for the help in advance.

 

[Kruss7]

Not sure if you can see those videos?

 

[Kruss7]

Here

 

[Kruss7]

Hm here’s a YouTube link if it doesn’t work





Both videos have clear bits

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hm here’s a YouTube link if it doesn’t work





Both videos have clear bits

I could view the videos, but there are focus issues, and then, when you got the focus set, the wrasse’s head isn’t visible(grin).

In the one video, the fish picked at a bit of something floating by, so that’s a good sign. For the brief second after that, it didn’t look to be breathing too fast.

What foods are you feeding it? Can you get live baby brine shrimp?

 

[Kruss7]

So hard to get a good video while he’s in that pipe. Here’s another try…







I am feeding a mix of live pods, reef nutrition beta brine, frozen mysis, cyclopods, blood worms and ROE. He was eating frozen like crazy before especially blood worms. I don’t think I can get live brine shrimp right now, no stores anywhere near me.

 

[Kruss7]

Okay this one might be the best?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Okay this one might be the best?

The fish looks alert and not breathing too fast. Sorry, not much to go on except the not eating….

 

[Kruss7]

The fish looks alert and not breathing too fast. Sorry, not much to go on except the not eating….

That’s my thoughts too. I don’t see anything physically wrong. Is it possible it’s not tolerating the copper? Any thoughts on the laying on its side?? I have another qt without any meds. What would you do?

 

[Kruss7]

Ramping copper was an old method and was used for cupramine (ionic copper, not coppersafe)
For Prazi, you wanted to dose at 80% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
You also wanted to use an airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, you would want to leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi

Thanks so much for the info, I’ll make sure to note this going forward.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That’s my thoughts too. I don’t see anything physically wrong. Is it possible it’s not tolerating the copper? Any thoughts on the laying on its side?? I have another qt without any meds. What would you do?

Given the cryptic nature of these, collection with cyanide is likely from some regions in SE Asia. This causes latent mortality in some of these fish within the first 40 days of acquisition. One of the hallmarks of this issue is fish not eating or stopping feeding.

You could try moving it to a fresh QT, but that may not correct the underlying issue. I don’t think it is copper at the root cause.

 

[Kruss7]

Given the cryptic nature of these, collection with cyanide is likely from some regions in SE Asia. This causes latent mortality in some of these fish within the first 40 days of acquisition. One of the hallmarks of this issue is fish not eating or stopping feeding.

You could try moving it to a fresh QT, but that may not correct the underlying issue. I don’t think it is copper at the root cause.

I did move the fish just to see if it made any changes. Fish was so easy to catch. The fish is looking worse, can’t stay upright and is doing circles and swimming upside down…

 

[Kruss7]

Not looking good. Not sure what to even do. It’s really trying, it’ll swim around the tank and then do this…

 

[Kruss7]

I figure the fish will be dead shortly, not sure if I should euthanize it? Anything else I can do for it?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I figure the fish will be dead shortly, not sure if I should euthanize it? Anything else I can do for it?

I'm not sure what to make of the video - seems like the fish has some patchy light discoloration as well. Before euthanizing it, you should try a 5 minute FW dip. That has some risks, but if the fish improves after a day or so, you can pretty much figure it has flukes, and can then treat (with praziquantel or hyposalinity). With really bad flukes, a FW may be fatal, but I don't think you have much to lose at this point.

Jay