will a alita al15 air pump work for aeration needs?

[ddc0715]

im considering installing an Alita al15 in my 55tG (holds 25g of water) in my sump to aerate my water. this is the last thing i know to do to increase ph. so anyone ever uses one of these?
P.S. Im not going to use buffers or additives. here's what have I done so far.

ph start point was 7.8 average low and 7.95 average high. 150 dt,

1. installed a co2scubber using a whisper 100 pump forcing outside and or inside air will raise ph.
2. installed window fans above my tank lights to improve airflow. my fish room has no windows.

3. I'm not using additives or buffers. do not like the risk. There are just as many horror stories (srry for your loss) as there is a success story (glad to know it worked). with a 5 figure investment, I'm not risking it.

4. There is only two humans and 2 cats in a 2600sqft home.
5. aeration test told me that outside and inside air, will raise my ph.
6. stole plants from the wife and added them to the fish room.
7. I have a 1' x 1' x 14" fug with cheateo. looks like a slime pit, but it's full.
8. i have calibrated my apex ph probe mid Aug. prior to chasing this rabbit.

so research points toward aeration. I have been running another whisper pump and airstone for a few days with no improvement in ph. so it's time to spend a little money on a GOOD air pump. so again what are your thoughts on an Alita al15 sump install? I mean what's left to try

so far all my efforts have gotten me up to a 7.9 average low and 8.1 average high. i believe the change I have gotten was due to the scrubber. all other efforts are just rumors based on air movement and what uses co2 as food ( plants and fans) so far not grand impacts from these. Yes, I know it's in range..... I'm targeting the 8.2-8.3 range. I know it is possible I've seen a ton of videos about it. but if this doesn't work then I'm at a complete loss as to why the ph will not rise. so i may just have to be happy with 8.1

i mean I can not stand there all day pointing a leaf blower at the tank. lol.

 

[Spare time]

I don't think an air pump will help pH because it doesn't do anything to remove hydrogen ions. Do you have a skimmer? You could make the co2 scrubber recirculating and this may be better.

What do you currently dose for alk and calcium if anything at all?

What refugium light do you have?

 

[Gtinnel]

As far as I understand it's not about adding more oxygen to the tank, the key is to change the CO2 that is being added to the tank to oxygen.

 

[ddc0715]

I have an internal bubble mag curve 5 skimmer, the scrubber is installed in a recirculating fashion, soda ash and cal from BRS, a kessil h80 tuna flora running opposite my dt light.
I agree in part that CO2 has been added in some way, that I can not determine, but the aeration of the water is supposed (greatly improve) to replace the CO2 with oxygen, forcing it out of the tank thru surface movement and other methods (gas exchange), but yes I agree it got in my tank somehow.

 

[Gtinnel]

forcing it out of the tank thru surface movement and other methods (gas exchange)

I may be missing something here but if you are trying to cause more surface agitation won't the gas exchange at the surface still mostly being with the gases in your home which I am assuming are high in CO2 (since adding a scrubber to the skimmer raised your pH).

 

[ddc0715]

no... you are on point. this is where the aeration test comes into play. one takes a large sample of tank water and an air pump outside and let it bubble for an hour or two. test the ph of the water. if ph raises, then the introduction of outside air into your tank water via aeration is a positive thing, co2 removed and replaced with lower co2 rich air, your ph rises, this is what you want. this is why a lot of people say add outside airline to ones skimmer.

i performed the same test (again) inside my home right beside my tank and i got an increase in ph. so yes, if the home was co2 heavy then my ph should have dropped, but it did not. it was almost equal yet a little lower when compared to the outside air results. that told me that (in my case only) either inside air was not co2 heavy.

now I'm no CO2 expert and do not own a slada graphic mono fussed hydra supersonic co2 meter. HAHAHAHAHAH. so that test is about the best this hobbyist can do.

here were the results of my aeration tests. hopefully, by writing out this entire journey and taking questions, I will discover something I may have overlooked.

 

[Gtinnel]

I understand that using an outside airline to your skimmer will increase pH because the CO2 levels inside your home are higher than outside. I actually have an outside line to my skimmer and got a .2 boost to my pH.
The part I am not understanding is that adding a scrubber to you skimmer increased your pH (which I completely understand), but if increasing surface agitation to encourage a gas exchange with your homes air will help increase you pH then wouldn't using a scrubber be non-beneficial?
Using a scrubber and then increasing gas exchange with your homes air are at odds with each other. If you can increase pH with the air inside your home then the scrubber would be pointless.
I ultimately think you'll end up buying a fancy air pump and not get the results you are hoping for.

 

[Spare time]

I have an internal bubble mag curve 5 skimmer, the scrubber is installed in a recirculating fashion, soda ash and cal from BRS, a kessil h80 tuna flora running opposite my dt light.
I agree in part that CO2 has been added in some way, that I can not determine, but the aeration of the water is supposed (greatly improve) to replace the CO2 with oxygen, forcing it out of the tank thru surface movement and other methods (gas exchange), but yes I agree it got in my tank somehow.

You could try kalkwasser. However, I wouldn't panic over 8.1.

 

[Spare time]

I understand that using an outside airline to your skimmer will increase pH because the CO2 levels inside your home are higher than outside. I actually have an outside line to my skimmer and got a .2 boost to my pH.
The part I am not understanding is that adding a scrubber to you skimmer increased your pH (which I completely understand), but if increasing surface agitation to encourage a gas exchange with your homes air will help increase you pH then wouldn't using a scrubber be non-beneficial?
Using a scrubber and then increasing gas exchange with your homes air are at odds with each other. If you can increase pH with the air inside your home then the scrubber would be pointless.
I ultimately think you'll end up buying a fancy air pump and not get the results you are hoping for.

Scrubbers are often far more effective than surface agitation. They are not at odds. Both work to remove CO2, but surface agitation has limits

 

[ddc0715]

Yes yes yes Gtinnel. I agree with the you. Pointless. I started with a scrubber because it's the first thing research points us to.. it was free from a friend so. No loss there.

I have had my skimmer pulling outside air in the for some time. This is why I wondered why ph was so low and started me down this rabbit hole.

One thing is for sure I got surface movement 2 grye 4k an 2 mp40ds on a 4 ft tank. Lol. So really I'm wondering what is the co2 source? I may have to buy a super sonic Hydra graphic two tone meter. And like spare time said you can only agitate the water so much.

 

[ddc0715]

 

[Gtinnel]

Scrubbers are often far more effective than surface agitation. They are not at odds. Both work to remove CO2, but surface agitation has limits

I'm no scientist but I don't believe this to be correct. I just read another thread where Randy says that the effectiveness of a scrubber is limited by it competing with the surface agitation with the higher CO2 air that is in the house. In this specific thread the person did have higher CO2 in their home, but it's still the same principle that the homes air has higher CO2 than the air coming through the scrubber. I'll link the thread and it's post #4 where he states it.

Ph Issues... Performed Randy's Aeration Test....

Hey Guys, So I have a 3 month old Red Sea Reefer 250, with Mixed reef and fish.... Have mostly LPS, Softies, and a 2 Small Pieces of SPS. My corals seem to be happy and healthy. Tank Parms are as follows: PH 7.7(3am) to 7.9(6pm End Photo Period) Kh 10-11 Calcium 440-450 Nitrate 0-.01 Phosphate...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ddc0715]

I read his entire article on this subject. It was helpful in understanding co2 and its impacts. It's got to be the air in my fish room. I will be picking up this first alert monitor tomorrow so I will know the co2 level in that room tomorrow. then I can play with decreasing it if needed.

 

[Gtinnel]

Also wanted to point out that when doing your aeration test if the temp of you water sample decreased during the test you will see a slight increase in pH from the temp difference. It won't be much but at this point we're not talking about huge pH differences anyway.

 

[Spare time]

I'm no scientist but I don't believe this to be correct. I just read another thread where Randy says that the effectiveness of a scrubber is limited by it competing with the surface agitation with the higher CO2 air that is in the house. In this specific thread the person did have higher CO2 in their home, but it's still the same principle that the homes air has higher CO2 than the air coming through the scrubber. I'll link the thread and it's post #4 where he states it.

Ph Issues... Performed Randy's Aeration Test....

Hey Guys, So I have a 3 month old Red Sea Reefer 250, with Mixed reef and fish.... Have mostly LPS, Softies, and a 2 Small Pieces of SPS. My corals seem to be happy and healthy. Tank Parms are as follows: PH 7.7(3am) to 7.9(6pm End Photo Period) Kh 10-11 Calcium 440-450 Nitrate 0-.01 Phosphate...

www.reef2reef.com

Cool. I guess it depends on the situation then. That is why I put "often" as I can't say that in every case a scrubber would show much more impact than just wavemakers being pointed upward