Why is quarantine so difficult. How do you get through it?

[carri10]

Hello.
I’m trying to follow the guidelines set down for quarantine of fish. The guidelines are clear, I have the equipment, there are no technical problems.

How do you manage to get through the full 35 or 45 or even 75 days?.
The fish looks so unhappy in in the dull sterile looking quarantine tank. They just look so sad.
That in itself is difficult enough, but then when you add in some who refuse to eat, what do you do in these cases?
For example, I have a copperband that was special selected from a very good supplier. Fat belly, eating well, had been in the shop for eight weeks with no problems. I couldn’t find any damage to its beak and everything seemed okay. Now I put it in quarantine and it will not eat.
What do you do in this sort of case?

The supplier is very good, I have seen the facilities. They have a massive UV steriliser and don’t release any fish until they’ve been properly acclimatised after the import from their supplier.. The copperband has been in copper QT for seven days. How long do I leave it, when the risk of it not eating outweighs the risk of it having itch?

I know there’s probably no answer to this but it does seem very hard to put the fish through the quarantine period.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello.
I’m trying to follow the guidelines set down for quarantine of fish. The guidelines are clear, I have the equipment, there are no technical problems.

How do you manage to get through the full 35 or 45 or even 75 days?.
The fish looks so unhappy in in the dull sterile looking quarantine tank. They just look so sad.
That in itself is difficult enough, but then when you add in some who refuse to eat, what do you do in these cases?
For example, I have a copperband that was special selected from a very good supplier. Fat belly, eating well, had been in the shop for eight weeks with no problems. I couldn’t find any damage to its beak and everything seemed okay. Now I put it in quarantine and it will not eat.
What do you do in this sort of case?

The supplier is very good, I have seen the facilities. They have a massive UV steriliser and don’t release any fish until they’ve been properly acclimatised after the import from their supplier.. The copperband has been in copper QT for seven days. How long do I leave it, when the risk of it not eating outweighs the risk of it having itch?

I know there’s probably no answer to this but it does seem very hard to put the fish through the quarantine period.

Quarantine as you stated is a boring environment for fish and with limitations such as rock and sand. They are going from regular saltwater to treated saltwater. If you truly have quarantined fish, you dont have to go through the 45-60 day regimen but rather 14-21 days to assure nothing foreign is present to be released into display tank.
Leave copperband in for another 7 days and add an air stone if you have not already and try Hikari half clam on a shell as an offering of food. Remove after 8 hours if not touched and assure ammonia hasnt climbed above .035

 

[carri10]

Thanks for the reply.

I tried to live half mussel that the copperband picked at for a while but not particularly enthusiastically. I was really happy, and thought I might have the beginnings of a solution. The next day I put another one in and he wasn’t interested at all.

Airstone has been in since the start. Ammonia was green on the ammonia alert (0.05). Maybe a little high.

 

[MnFish1]

Hello.
I’m trying to follow the guidelines set down for quarantine of fish. The guidelines are clear, I have the equipment, there are no technical problems.

How do you manage to get through the full 35 or 45 or even 75 days?.
The fish looks so unhappy in in the dull sterile looking quarantine tank. They just look so sad.
That in itself is difficult enough, but then when you add in some who refuse to eat, what do you do in these cases?
For example, I have a copperband that was special selected from a very good supplier. Fat belly, eating well, had been in the shop for eight weeks with no problems. I couldn’t find any damage to its beak and everything seemed okay. Now I put it in quarantine and it will not eat.
What do you do in this sort of case?

The supplier is very good, I have seen the facilities. They have a massive UV steriliser and don’t release any fish until they’ve been properly acclimatised after the import from their supplier.. The copperband has been in copper QT for seven days. How long do I leave it, when the risk of it not eating outweighs the risk of it having itch?

I know there’s probably no answer to this but it does seem very hard to put the fish through the quarantine period.

It may be harder on you than the fish. However, the copper band not eating is worrisome. Are all the others eating? what medication are you using - as this can cause eating to drop off as well

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the reply.

I tried to live half mussel that the copperband picked at for a while but not particularly enthusiastically. I was really happy, and thought I might have the beginnings of a solution. The next day I put another one in and he wasn’t interested at all.

Airstone has been in since the start. Ammonia was green on the ammonia alert (0.05). Maybe a little high.

What is the ammonia now? FYI -

• Alert. 0.05 mg/L. Tolerated for 3-5 days. Monitor and consider a water change soon.

 

[Spare time]

Have you added cycling bacteria? Any pvc tubes? I also think it is important to understand you may be anthropomorphism them being "sad"

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello.
I’m trying to follow the guidelines set down for quarantine of fish. The guidelines are clear, I have the equipment, there are no technical problems.

How do you manage to get through the full 35 or 45 or even 75 days?.
The fish looks so unhappy in in the dull sterile looking quarantine tank. They just look so sad.
That in itself is difficult enough, but then when you add in some who refuse to eat, what do you do in these cases?
For example, I have a copperband that was special selected from a very good supplier. Fat belly, eating well, had been in the shop for eight weeks with no problems. I couldn’t find any damage to its beak and everything seemed okay. Now I put it in quarantine and it will not eat.
What do you do in this sort of case?

The supplier is very good, I have seen the facilities. They have a massive UV steriliser and don’t release any fish until they’ve been properly acclimatised after the import from their supplier.. The copperband has been in copper QT for seven days. How long do I leave it, when the risk of it not eating outweighs the risk of it having itch?

I know there’s probably no answer to this but it does seem very hard to put the fish through the quarantine period.

While a quarantine system isn't the most engaging environment for a fish, if the system is properly set up, fish will not go off feed during the process. Issues we see are typically; high ammonia, too small of a tank, lack of tank decor (cut up pieces of PVC pipe work best) or some inherent problem with the fish itself, that precludes it thriving in any tank. Copperbands often fall into the latter category. In this case, if the dealer truly sent you a healthy fish, then look at the previous three issues.

I see you are using an ammonia alert badge - those can sometimes give false low readings. Do you have another means to confirm the ammonia level?

Jay

 

[carri10]

It may be harder on you than the fish. However, the copper band not eating is worrisome. Are all the others eating? what medication are you using - as this can cause eating to drop off as well

Hi.
They are in copper power at 2.1ppm with metro at recommended levels.
There is also a naso (not eating great, apart from live brine shrimp), small sailfin (eats everything), scarlet hawk (eating fine) and lawnmower blenny (don’t know if it eats as it lives in a pvc tube).

 

[carri10]

What is the ammonia now? FYI -

• Alert. 0.05 mg/L. Tolerated for 3-5 days. Monitor and consider a water change soon.

They had a full water change 3 days ago and I’ll do another tomorrow. Hope it helps.

 

[MnFish1]

Hi.
They are in copper power at 2.1ppm with metro at recommended levels.
There is also a naso (not eating great, apart from live brine shrimp), small sailfin (eats everything), scarlet hawk (eating fine) and lawnmower blenny (don’t know if it eats as it lives in a pvc tube).

Which protocol are you using that suggests metronidazole (presuming thats what you mean by metro)? Generally speaking unless it's an emergency I would not add an antibiotic with copper.

 

[carri10]

Have you added cycling bacteria? Any pvc tubes? I also think it is important to understand you may be anthropomorphism them being "sad"

Yep for bacteria. A good dose of one of the off the shelf bottles. I forget which one.

Two long and three short tubes.

For their “sadness” . Yep. Definitely projecting! But if they don’t eat, it is more worrisome.

 

[carri10]

While a quarantine system isn't the most engaging environment for a fish, if the system is properly set up, fish will not go off feed during the process. Issues we see are typically; high ammonia, too small of a tank, lack of tank decor (cut up pieces of PVC pipe work best) or some inherent problem with the fish itself, that precludes it thriving in any tank. Copperbands often fall into the latter category. In this case, if the dealer truly sent you a healthy fish, then look at the previous three issues.

I see you are using an ammonia alert badge - those can sometimes give false low readings. Do you have another means to confirm the ammonia level?

Jay

Hi Jay.
I don’t, unfortunately.
The tank is 100l, but the sailfin is 3 cm, the copper band maybe 4cm and the naso about the same, maybe 5cm.

 

[exnisstech]

Personally I will never put a CBB in a sterile QT again. I have one in observation QT right now. Day 16 and it's eating aiptasia, live black worms, PE mysis and earthworms. It was only at the store 2 days and not eating when I brought it home.

 

[carri10]

Which protocol are you using that suggests metronidazole (presuming thats what you mean by metro)? Generally speaking unless it's an emergency I would not add an antibiotic with copper.

I’m following the BRS method. They have copper and antibiotic with a three day water change cycle.
Also humble fish non-TTM does copper with metronidazole.

To be honest, a few days ago I was going to write a post summarising all the recommended protocols. As a beginner it can be pretty confusing, even if you’re scientifically trained, to work your through the various suggestions.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Just my 2 cents:
Your fish is going through extreme stress right now. Its cortisol levels are probably through the roof. Does it have any good (i mean really good) hiding places where it can escape out of sight?

 

[Spare time]

Yep for bacteria. A good dose of one of the off the shelf bottles. I forget which one.

Two long and three short tubes.

For their “sadness” . Yep. Definitely projecting! But if they don’t eat, it is more worrisome.

If you still get ammonia, maybe consider adding biospira or fritz with a biosponge.

 

[carri10]

Just my 2 cents:
Your fish is going through extreme stress right now. Its cortisol levels are probably through the roof. Does it have any good (i mean really good) hiding places where it can escape out of sight?

Thanks. It’s a good point. No it doesn’t. A little. It behind the internal filter )with media that does not adsorb copper, I have stable levels).

Tomorrow morning (I’m in EU) I’ll build them something more consequential than a few PVC pipes to hide in. A PVC pipe cave type thing.
I do keep the room dark though, following advice to lower stress.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Thanks. It’s a good point. No it doesn’t. A little. It behind the internal filter )with media that does not adsorb copper, I have stable levels).

Tomorrow morning (I’m in EU) I’ll build them something more consequential than a few PVC pipes to hide in. A PVC pipe cave type thing.
I do keep the room dark though, following advice to lower stress.

I know this goes against the grain for most people, but if it was fat and healthy in the store, it almost seems counter-productive to QT it with medications if thats causing it to lose its appetite. The less it eats, the weaker it gets. I do understand the purpose of QT though although I personally prefer only observational QT for a short period.

The fish will definitely appreciate more hiding places no matter what though!

 

[MnFish1]

I’m following the BRS method. They have copper and antibiotic with a three day water change cycle.
Also humble fish non-TTM does copper with metronidazole.

To be honest, a few days ago I was going to write a post summarising all the recommended protocols. As a beginner it can be pretty confusing, even if you’re scientifically trained, to work your through the various suggestions.

Well - glad you're here! And you're correct - there are multiple protocols. The one that we are most familiar with is the one we recommend. Unfortunately, I don't have time to go through all of the others - however, I can say that if I had a fish that was not eating now in QT - my first 'thought' (and its an opinion) - is that one of the medications is affecting appetite (in addition to the comments mentioned by others). Copper is more 'needed' than metronidazole - so if it were me, I would stop the metronidazole.

You could change course slightly - and do a TTM protocol for the copper band (not the others) - with no medication watching closely for any issues suggesting something other than Ich.

Another suggestion - would be to ask the question on the website you got your protocol from (both sites are widely read, as I'm sure you're aware).

 

[threebuoys]

For fish with a reputation for not eating or frightening too easily, I actually use a longer QT period than that recommended by our protocols.

For example, on June 28 I received a shipment that was practically destroyed by a fork lift accident at the Fed Ex distribution facility. While the Copper band butterfly and a flasher wrasse were DOA, the Ornate Leopard wrasse and the two Zebra Dartfish were still kicking. I placed the three in an established QT containing pvc fittings and a large tupperware container with non-calcium-based sand about 3 inches deep.

The two dartfish immediately started eating while the Leopard Wrasse immediately buried in the sand.

For days, the only way I could determine if the wrasse was alive was by stirring the sand to arouse him.

Finally, the wrasse started coming out for a brief time on his own. Now, almost 2 weeks later, he is staying out of the sand for several hours at a time. All now seem comfortable in the tank.

I have not yet started the copper treatment. Instead, I used the time to get the three fish to eat consistently. All are eating pellets voraciously.

I will still use the 30-day copper and prazi treatment protocol starting in the next day or two. Although the fish appear healthy, I do not want to take the risk they are carriers. The other fish in my display tank don't need any risk of acquiring a potentially deadly parasite.