Why do some thread participants find it necessary to put others on blast?

[Dom]

We are all here with the common interest of keeping reef tanks. And when you have as many people with the same interest that we have here on R2R, you will get people of all skill levels.

Most people come here to learn, but there are a small percentage of expert participants who are in the position to share what they have learned, which I feel is what makes R2R so popular.

I've had some wonderful interactions with some of the experts here. I maintain private conversations with some of them as they have shown an interest in mentoring. This is a great resource and one that I try not to dip in to too often.

But every once in a while, we get an expert who insists on delivering answers that are extremely complex to most of us and is generally useless.

But if that isn't enough, they find that a necessary part of their post must include labeling other participants in the conversation in an rude and impolite way.

Why is that?

I believe it is insecurity from a lifetime of work in their field without any validation. So they come here to feel superior and boost their ego, because they don't get that validation at home or work.

Frankly, most people here have children at home and are not interested raising more of them here on R2R.

So I would ask that those individuals provide the help in a way that is useful others, and not just useful to you as a vehicle to validate who you are.

Respectfully,
Dom.

 

[ShakeyGizzard]

With ya, especially since I am no expert . But through all my years working in a highly technical field, I did learn there is always someone who knows more than you.

 

[Antaguana]

Wow, something has really upset you to drive you to write this open letter to the nameless.

I will take a lot of ego fluffing from the true experts. It really is great to get their help and if that means letting them know they are appreciated and respected it seems like a small price to get the input from a lifetime of experience.

What annoys me more is the amature "experts" who have learnt as many false artefacts as true facts, can't tell the difference and then confuse those of us who don't know any better. It can make it hard to spot the true experts when you have 6 different opinions. Often the true experts are quite humble and don't want to directly call out the well intentioned misinformation. Luckily they are usually able to back up their claims with evidence and sources which makes it clear they know what they are talking about.

 

[The_Paradox]

Luckily they are usually able to back up their claims with evidence and sources which makes it clear they know what they are talking about.

I like how you are positive enough to think most are capable of critical thinking. Seems like half the time though the person asking the question is only seeking validation for a poor choice they already made. To the point, in general this forum is too nice. I’m all for patience with the person asking the question, but people giving bad advice need landed on with both feet.

 

[Dom]

I like how you are positive enough to think most are capable of critical thinking. Seems like half the time though the person asking the question is only seeking validation for a poor choice they already made. To the point, in general this forum is too nice. I’m all for patience with the person asking the question, but people giving bad advice need landed on with both feet.

Agree. Many times I have found posts where people are shopping for the answer that want to hear and not the correct answer. It is hard to be patient with people like this. But when I find myself becoming impatient, I "unwatch" the thread and let others with more patience than I continue to support.

But I don't agree that "people giving bad advice need landed on with both feet".

I feel it is important to remain aware that sometimes, people want to be helpful. And the information they provide is provided with good intentions.

Why can't someone more knowledgable first try to politely correct the person behind the post, "land on them with both feet" only when they clearly need it?

 

[Antaguana]

Yeah, smart people make mistakes in a hobby they are trying to learn (I'm sure I will) and need help to learn without being told they are idiots. But idiots spreading misinformation need to be corrected lest people come to believe their lies.

Unfortunately for those of us who need and genuinely want help there are (at least) 4 kinds of people in the world.

A The Student. Those who want help / information
B The Fool. Those who want to be told they are right
C The Expert. Those who want to give help / information
D The Confident Fool. Those who want to tell people what they believe without evidence because they feel like saying it makes it true.

When type B and D get together it's dangerous and the Bs soon become Ds.

Granted when A and C get together it's great and As can slowly become Cs. But as a A it's hard to know if you are talking to a C or D.

True in more than just reefing.

 

[Dom]

Yeah, smart people make mistakes in a hobby they are trying to learn (I'm sure I will) and need help to learn without being told they are idiots. But idiots spreading misinformation need to be corrected lest people come to believe their lies.

It is a lie only if they know what they are saying is wrong. If they believe it is true, I don't think of them as lying.

Agree. People spreading misinformation need to be corrected. But why is it necessary to belittle? The short answer is that it isn't necessary.

 

[Antaguana]

I feel it is important to remain aware that sometimes, people want to be helpful. And the information they provide is provided with good intentions.

Why can't someone more knowledgable first try to politely correct the person behind the post, "land on them with both feet" only when they clearly need it?

I know I get frustrated when I get 6 contradicting answers and spend 4 hours trying to work out which is correct. I feel like most people wouldn't have the patience (or ability) to do that. This is where it would be nice if the true experts had some way to identify themselves so we know who to trust. (I mean it used to be your could trust people with a lot of experience or a degree or a PhD, unfortunately none of that is a reliable indicator of skill or intentions anymore).

I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for true experts to answer the same questions again and again and keep having to refute the same incorrect advice given (intentions aside).

I can't believe how hard it is to get a straight answer to anything. One of the first things you have to learn is cycling a tank and there is just no agreement at all on any of it. It's ridiculous. Things that should be very cut and dry like does nitrite matter. You have to hunt for hours to be told that it matters a lot in freshwater but in a marine environment it's just noise. Which begs the question why is it in every marine master test kit? (Just an example don't want to sidetrack the thread)

 

[Dom]

I can't believe how hard it is to get a straight answer to anything. One of the first things you have to learn is cycling a tank and there is just no agreement at all on any of it. It's ridiculous. Things that should be very cut and dry like does nitrite matter. You have to hunt for hours to be told that it matters a lot in freshwater but in a marine environment it's just noise. Which begs the question why is it in every marine master test kit? (Just an example don't want to sidetrack the thread)

Ah yes, the elusive "straight answer".

And that is an excellent point; I never stopped to consider why there are Nitrite test kits for reef tanks.

Sometimes, it is difficult to filter out the fluff and figure out what is the right answer to multiple perspectives. It is why I maintain connections to the experts that are willing to mentor; it is a way to reduce the "noise".

 

[Antaguana]

It is a lie only if they know what they are saying is wrong. If they believe it is true, I don't think of them as lying.

False information is dangerous even if given with the best intentions.

I see your point though. There is certainly a place to say, sorry but you are incorrect. This is the correct information, evidence as to why it is correct, and possible cause of confusion.

Before leaping to your are an idiot and a liar and don't have any clue.

There are good and bad ways to correct people. It truly is a shame that people who refuse to be corrected make so hard to have a good conversation. Unfortunately this also makes it hard for people to take the time to give good corrections.

I can't stand people who have the "it's true to me" mentally. That's not how truth works. Your experience may suggest your theory, which may or may not be the objective truth.

 

[Garf]

I never stopped to consider why there are Nitrite test kits for reef tanks

Nitrite messes with the nitrate test, therefore indicates if the nitrate test will be accurate, well, as accurate as they get.

 

[Dom]

False information is dangerous even if given with the best intentions.

I see your point though. There is certainly a place to say, sorry but you are incorrect. This is the correct information, evidence as to why it is correct, and possible cause of confusion.

Before leaping to your are an idiot and a liar and don't have any clue.

There are good and bad ways to correct people. It truly is a shame that people who refuse to be corrected make so hard to have a good conversation. Unfortunately this also makes it hard for people to take the time to give good corrections.

I can't stand people who have the "it's true to me" mentally. That's not how truth works. Your experience may suggest your theory, which may or may not be the objective truth.

Exactly!

What you suggest would be a good first step. Then if the individual is of the type insisting they are right, only then take whatever steps necessary.

 

[The_Paradox]

But I don't agree that "people giving bad advice need landed on with both feet".

I’m referring to the ones that give bad information then start a flame war not the ones who simply misspeak or have a differing experience.

I feel it is important to remain aware that sometimes, people want to be helpful. And the information they provide is provided with good intentions.

100% as long as it doesn’t turn into a “I have the louder bullhorn so I’m right scenario”. As you mentioned about unfollowing threads. This is a slippery slope that can quickly turn into the Atlas Shrugged model of knowledge and common sense.

 

[Labridaedicted]

The other thing that happens is folks will simply say "you're wrong" without providing helpful insight. Drives me nuts. There's different methods to achieving a similar result in many instances.

In this hobby folks also have different experiences and things that work for them, so there's rarely a 100% right or wrong and sharing experiences can help someone even if it's not 100% the conventional wisdom.

 

[Antaguana]

Nitrite messes with the nitrate test, therefore indicates if the nitrate test will be accurate, well, as accurate as they get.

A perfect example of a good-natured correction!

This made me dig deeper and find this on the hanna site.

https://www.hannainst.com/hubfs/006-finished-content/FAQ/FAQ-HI781-Saltwater-Nitrate-LR-Rev1.pdf

"Reagent HI781A-0 is a buffer, intended to raise the pH of the solution to the optimum point for reduction of nitrate to nitrite.HI781B-0 is a mix of powders that includes zinc, which is what actually reduces the nitrate to nitrite. HI781C-0 is what you could call the indicator, and simply reacts with the emerging nitrite to form a bright pink color"

So yes, you are perfectly correct the nitrate tests convert the nitrate to nitrite and then test that.


Sorry I will stop the sidetracking now.

 

[Pistondog]

We are all here with the common interest of keeping reef tanks. And when you have as many people with the same interest that we have here on R2R, you will get people of all skill levels.

Most people come here to learn, but there are a small percentage of expert participants who are in the position to share what they have learned, which I feel is what makes R2R so popular.

I've had some wonderful interactions with some of the experts here. I maintain private conversations with some of them as they have shown an interest in mentoring. This is a great resource and one that I try not to dip in to too often.

But every once in a while, we get an expert who insists on delivering answers that are extremely complex to most of us and is generally useless.

But if that isn't enough, they find that a necessary part of their post must include labeling other participants in the conversation in an rude and impolite way.

Why is that?

I believe it is insecurity from a lifetime of work in their field without any validation. So they come here to feel superior and boost their ego, because they don't get that validation at home or work.

Frankly, most people here have children at home and are not interested raising more of them here on R2R.

So I would ask that those individuals provide the help in a way that is useful others, and not just useful to you as a vehicle to validate who you are.

Respectfully,
Dom.

Some posters have knowledge and some have beliefs. Knowlegable posters try to pass on that knowledge. Believers are adamant to converting you, like a religious zealot.

 

[machome79]

This why I prefer my reef tank and inhabitants over people.

 

[Antaguana]

There's different methods to achieving a similar result in many instances.

In this hobby folks also have different experiences and things that work for them, so there's rarely a 100% right or wrong and sharing experiences can help someone even if it's not 100% the conventional wisdom.

Yes, this is the problem with censorship in general. It is hard to remove true misinformation without going too far and preventing any progress if the "official line" can not be challenged.

So hard to get that fine line between, unconventional but insightful comment vs demonstrably incorrect.

 

[Antaguana]

I like how you are positive enough to think most are capable of critical thinking.

Just to be clear I never said most people can tell the difference, most people in fact can't, or don't. To be honest I think this is one of the reasons a lot of people have so many of the problems they have. They simply can't sort out the good advice from the snake oil.

I just meant when one person tries to shout loudest and browbeat everyone and another comes armed with sources and evidence I personally can (with considerable effort) work out who knows what they are talking about (most of the time).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I know I get frustrated when I get 6 contradicting answers and spend 4 hours trying to work out which is correct.

I think this thread relates to that point:

Reefers may over-rely on personal experience to accept or reject truth

OK, I know that's a provocative title, but hear me out. From many, many discussions I have had with reefers over the past 25 years, it is clear to me that many folks easily accept ideas that mesh with their experience, and strongly reject those that do not. Unfortunately, this reliance on...

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