chris_pull
Active Member
Looking for some tips and advice, and possibly just a pick me up as I'm really struggling with my tank. Essentially, I'm finding that new corals do okay for a while then suddenly decline and die, or just look rubbish. I have some known issues that I am trying to solve (dinos, low PAR) but I feel like my tank is just stuck in horrible phase and that I'm losing things I really shouldn't be, especially given how diligent I am on maintenance, water changes and testing. Others who started tanks at the same time are doing great in comparison, which is really getting me down.
My day job is scientist and I consume huge amounts of reef-related videos, podcasts, forum posts, so I don't feel as though it's simply a lack of ability or knowledge. I will say that I am running my system on a canister filter and the knee-jerk reaction from many may be that this is the issue – but I really can't see how this would be as the issue with canisters is their "potential" to spike nutrients, but I've been running this canister now for almost 2 years without nutrients issues (in fact, nutrients bottoming out has been the bigger problem). In my view, a well maintained canister filter is just a self-contained sump. So, with that said, her is the low-down...
Specs
140 L (40 gallon long)
Dry rock (mix of marco rock, AF rock and some real coral skeleton); recently also added some chunks of live rock from LFS
Canister filter, with graded sponge pre-filters that is changed weekly and around 5kg of mature biomedia.
In-line heater (ink bird controlled), in-line algae reactor with cheato, in-line UV steriliser
Light fixture is the EU-version of the reef breeder photon, mounted fairly high for good spread
RODI ATO (have own RODI system and ICP on product water showed no contaminants)
2 x MP10s on reef crest at 40%
Sand is ocean direct from Carib
Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt, until recently; slowly switching to AquaForest reef salt.
Testing
Weekly with hanna HR nitrate, ULR Phosphate, marine pH, and alk.
I also did an ICP in November.
Livestock
Pair of clowns
Pair of Randall's gobies with pistol shrimp
Leopard wrasse
Midas blenny
Tail spot blenny
Royal gramma
3 x green chromis
Shunk shrimp
Peppermint shrimp
Hermits, snails, conch
Rock flower nem, BBT nem
Gorgonians
Zoas
Torches and hammers
Elegance coral
Some "easy SPS" (pavona, stylo, Monti cap etc)
Some recovering goniopora
Acans
Blastos
Lobo
Summary of issues
Minimal to zero alk consumption
LPS generally look shrunken or fully retracted into skeleton, with exception of things like blastos and recently acans
Brown jelly disease wiped out two torches a few weeks back
Some sort of bacterial infection introduced on new goniopora wiped out most of my goniopora garden– treated with hydrogen peroxide and seemed to have saved 2/5
Large cell amphidinium dinos; I assume this is what is killing my snails and causing things like some of my zoa to retract
Hair algae on most of rocks
Minimal to no coralline growth, though it did begin to start at one point, but has since stopped
Time line
June 2021 – Moved house and transferred livestock from a 1 year old 20 gallon to new set up, keeping a little bit of original rock (I wasn't happy with the scape, so made a new one). Kept all biomedia etc. Change lights and added new algae reactor and UV. Tank looked amazing from June-October, with corals showing growth, polyp extension and not a spec of algae of other ugly stage issues. I put this down to the mature biomedia, adding a lot of live stock at once and the ocean direct sand introducing a good microbiome.
October 2021 – Some coral losses (SPS), starting to see poly retraction. Due to nutrients suddenly bottoming out to zero in space of about a week?
November 2021 – brown algae on sand, rocks, assumed to be dinos and ugly stage. Massive GHA outbreak followed.
December 2021 – After lots of manual removal, more clean up crew, sludge-consuming bacteria additives etc, tank looked great again and I added more LPS corals. Major issue end of Dec: out of town for the weekend and a cold spell hits – without us in the house with the heating on tank temp drops to 23 degrees C for a few days until we return. Corals seem fine but could explain Jan stress events.
January 2022 – BJD takes out two torches, loss of goniopora to a presumed bacterial infection, generally all corals looking unhappy. Microscope shows what I thought were diatoms is actually dinos everywhere on sand and rocks, mixed in with GHA that has come back (and I think prevents stuff eating it).
February 2022 – tank looking somewhat better, dosing phyto, bacteria and silicates to try and beat dinos. Two major changes: several 20% water changes with new salt after TMP scare; Second change, I bought an apogee PAR meter are months of questioning my Seneye, and decided to slowly begin raising PAR about 10 PAR a week (my light does this gradually, i.e. a few % a day).
Possible (non-mutually exclusive) causes
Tank too young/unstable
Whilst I generally believe this to be part of the issue, my alk is fairly stable (varies by a few points around 8) as nothing is consuming it. Nutrients have gone up and down a bit and aren't too stable – I am struggling to find the right feeding and lighting schedule on the algae reactor to keep them constant. But probably explains why rocks are covered in algae still and why I have had nutrients bottom out. I think the nutrients bottoming out in October allowed pest algae to tank over (GHA and dinos).
Bad salt?
I bought a new box of TM pro salt in September and I do weekly 10% water changes. After seeing reports of this salt causing problems, I started switching to AF reef salt as a precaution. TM have since said there are no affected batches in the UK but I no longer have the box to check. I still can't shake the feeling that my tank started having issues after I began using the new box of salt, and I noticed it was mixing to a much higher alk (almost 9) and some weird particles that I hadn't seen previously. I also noticed that as soon as I did some water changes (actually, even after one) my acans and Duncan coral (which has been fully closed and I thought for sure dead for about two months) opened up again, with feeding tentacles fully extended. However, I can't disentangle this effect from lighting...
Low PAR
This is now my biggest suspect. I had used the seneye to set my lights up but I ran them quite low as a precaution initially, but thought PAR was within a 75-150 range throughout the whole tank. I recently had the chance to buy an apogee (which are rare in the UK) from a buddy and decided to try it out, since I had a feeling the seneye was off (the intensity level of my lights was only 8% and zoa were super stretched out). Sure enough, most of the tank was getting 30 PAR, with 50 at the top of the rocks where I had my easy SPS. I've since started increasing the lights by about 10 PAR per week, with the aim that they'll reach 75-150 PAR throughout the tank by March (so a few % a day, which my lights do automatically). Since I started doing this when I started switching salts, I can't say which is driving the improvements in LPS; is it possible that months of low PAR have been causing the gradual declines I've been seeing? Could it have made the corals weaker and susceptible to infection? I've not heard of low light killing corals (except SPS) but I presume it is possible, in the same way a plant in a dark corner will slowly drop leaves and wither away over months.
Dinos
I have the less toxic variety but assume they are the cause of many of my snails dying and why some of my soft corals are closed up. In combination with everything else, could be a contributing factor as to why things are going so badly.
Low pH
As I don't have a skimmer my pH is on the low side, and as no corals are growing, I assume I'm missing the mid day peak in pH. Whenever I measure pH though it's around 7.9-8.0, so not awful. But, as it's so cold here, and we've been working from home, there is certainly more Co2 in the air (no windows open, in the house all day). A lower pH could explain why issues started around Oct when we would have closed up the windows for winter (but house is quite drafty), but this is just an idea.
Toxin of some sort?
I am also really worried about this, perhaps from a bad salt batch or some other source. An ICP test in November revealed things were generally fine, and no pollutants in my RO water. But I had an iron level of 8.24 µg/l and zinc level of 16.85 µg/l. I don't think these are horribly high and TM pro is known to be high in iron. I was also dosing cheatogro quite regularly (since stopped) and I suppose that could have contributed. I recently ran some PolyFilter and after a week I'd say it's mostly brown with a red hue, which could indicate iron or aluminium.
Summary
Could be multiple causes of issue, not least because the tank is still young. That said, I feel like the tank should be in a better position than it is, given the amount of time I put into it and compared to others of similar age. I certainly shouldn't be losing relatively easy LPS. My biggest worry currently are my five or so hammers and lobo, that seem quite shrunken.
Any tips or ideas very welcome! I am going to continue trying to beat the dinos and raising PAR and I will not be adding any more coral any time soon after losing hundreds of pounds worth now! Also, if you need anymore information or photos, I'm very happy to provide it!
My day job is scientist and I consume huge amounts of reef-related videos, podcasts, forum posts, so I don't feel as though it's simply a lack of ability or knowledge. I will say that I am running my system on a canister filter and the knee-jerk reaction from many may be that this is the issue – but I really can't see how this would be as the issue with canisters is their "potential" to spike nutrients, but I've been running this canister now for almost 2 years without nutrients issues (in fact, nutrients bottoming out has been the bigger problem). In my view, a well maintained canister filter is just a self-contained sump. So, with that said, her is the low-down...
Specs
140 L (40 gallon long)
Dry rock (mix of marco rock, AF rock and some real coral skeleton); recently also added some chunks of live rock from LFS
Canister filter, with graded sponge pre-filters that is changed weekly and around 5kg of mature biomedia.
In-line heater (ink bird controlled), in-line algae reactor with cheato, in-line UV steriliser
Light fixture is the EU-version of the reef breeder photon, mounted fairly high for good spread
RODI ATO (have own RODI system and ICP on product water showed no contaminants)
2 x MP10s on reef crest at 40%
Sand is ocean direct from Carib
Tropic Marin Pro Reef Salt, until recently; slowly switching to AquaForest reef salt.
Testing
Weekly with hanna HR nitrate, ULR Phosphate, marine pH, and alk.
I also did an ICP in November.
Livestock
Pair of clowns
Pair of Randall's gobies with pistol shrimp
Leopard wrasse
Midas blenny
Tail spot blenny
Royal gramma
3 x green chromis
Shunk shrimp
Peppermint shrimp
Hermits, snails, conch
Rock flower nem, BBT nem
Gorgonians
Zoas
Torches and hammers
Elegance coral
Some "easy SPS" (pavona, stylo, Monti cap etc)
Some recovering goniopora
Acans
Blastos
Lobo
Summary of issues
Minimal to zero alk consumption
LPS generally look shrunken or fully retracted into skeleton, with exception of things like blastos and recently acans
Brown jelly disease wiped out two torches a few weeks back
Some sort of bacterial infection introduced on new goniopora wiped out most of my goniopora garden– treated with hydrogen peroxide and seemed to have saved 2/5
Large cell amphidinium dinos; I assume this is what is killing my snails and causing things like some of my zoa to retract
Hair algae on most of rocks
Minimal to no coralline growth, though it did begin to start at one point, but has since stopped
Time line
June 2021 – Moved house and transferred livestock from a 1 year old 20 gallon to new set up, keeping a little bit of original rock (I wasn't happy with the scape, so made a new one). Kept all biomedia etc. Change lights and added new algae reactor and UV. Tank looked amazing from June-October, with corals showing growth, polyp extension and not a spec of algae of other ugly stage issues. I put this down to the mature biomedia, adding a lot of live stock at once and the ocean direct sand introducing a good microbiome.
October 2021 – Some coral losses (SPS), starting to see poly retraction. Due to nutrients suddenly bottoming out to zero in space of about a week?
November 2021 – brown algae on sand, rocks, assumed to be dinos and ugly stage. Massive GHA outbreak followed.
December 2021 – After lots of manual removal, more clean up crew, sludge-consuming bacteria additives etc, tank looked great again and I added more LPS corals. Major issue end of Dec: out of town for the weekend and a cold spell hits – without us in the house with the heating on tank temp drops to 23 degrees C for a few days until we return. Corals seem fine but could explain Jan stress events.
January 2022 – BJD takes out two torches, loss of goniopora to a presumed bacterial infection, generally all corals looking unhappy. Microscope shows what I thought were diatoms is actually dinos everywhere on sand and rocks, mixed in with GHA that has come back (and I think prevents stuff eating it).
February 2022 – tank looking somewhat better, dosing phyto, bacteria and silicates to try and beat dinos. Two major changes: several 20% water changes with new salt after TMP scare; Second change, I bought an apogee PAR meter are months of questioning my Seneye, and decided to slowly begin raising PAR about 10 PAR a week (my light does this gradually, i.e. a few % a day).
Possible (non-mutually exclusive) causes
Tank too young/unstable
Whilst I generally believe this to be part of the issue, my alk is fairly stable (varies by a few points around 8) as nothing is consuming it. Nutrients have gone up and down a bit and aren't too stable – I am struggling to find the right feeding and lighting schedule on the algae reactor to keep them constant. But probably explains why rocks are covered in algae still and why I have had nutrients bottom out. I think the nutrients bottoming out in October allowed pest algae to tank over (GHA and dinos).
Bad salt?
I bought a new box of TM pro salt in September and I do weekly 10% water changes. After seeing reports of this salt causing problems, I started switching to AF reef salt as a precaution. TM have since said there are no affected batches in the UK but I no longer have the box to check. I still can't shake the feeling that my tank started having issues after I began using the new box of salt, and I noticed it was mixing to a much higher alk (almost 9) and some weird particles that I hadn't seen previously. I also noticed that as soon as I did some water changes (actually, even after one) my acans and Duncan coral (which has been fully closed and I thought for sure dead for about two months) opened up again, with feeding tentacles fully extended. However, I can't disentangle this effect from lighting...
Low PAR
This is now my biggest suspect. I had used the seneye to set my lights up but I ran them quite low as a precaution initially, but thought PAR was within a 75-150 range throughout the whole tank. I recently had the chance to buy an apogee (which are rare in the UK) from a buddy and decided to try it out, since I had a feeling the seneye was off (the intensity level of my lights was only 8% and zoa were super stretched out). Sure enough, most of the tank was getting 30 PAR, with 50 at the top of the rocks where I had my easy SPS. I've since started increasing the lights by about 10 PAR per week, with the aim that they'll reach 75-150 PAR throughout the tank by March (so a few % a day, which my lights do automatically). Since I started doing this when I started switching salts, I can't say which is driving the improvements in LPS; is it possible that months of low PAR have been causing the gradual declines I've been seeing? Could it have made the corals weaker and susceptible to infection? I've not heard of low light killing corals (except SPS) but I presume it is possible, in the same way a plant in a dark corner will slowly drop leaves and wither away over months.
Dinos
I have the less toxic variety but assume they are the cause of many of my snails dying and why some of my soft corals are closed up. In combination with everything else, could be a contributing factor as to why things are going so badly.
Low pH
As I don't have a skimmer my pH is on the low side, and as no corals are growing, I assume I'm missing the mid day peak in pH. Whenever I measure pH though it's around 7.9-8.0, so not awful. But, as it's so cold here, and we've been working from home, there is certainly more Co2 in the air (no windows open, in the house all day). A lower pH could explain why issues started around Oct when we would have closed up the windows for winter (but house is quite drafty), but this is just an idea.
Toxin of some sort?
I am also really worried about this, perhaps from a bad salt batch or some other source. An ICP test in November revealed things were generally fine, and no pollutants in my RO water. But I had an iron level of 8.24 µg/l and zinc level of 16.85 µg/l. I don't think these are horribly high and TM pro is known to be high in iron. I was also dosing cheatogro quite regularly (since stopped) and I suppose that could have contributed. I recently ran some PolyFilter and after a week I'd say it's mostly brown with a red hue, which could indicate iron or aluminium.
Summary
Could be multiple causes of issue, not least because the tank is still young. That said, I feel like the tank should be in a better position than it is, given the amount of time I put into it and compared to others of similar age. I certainly shouldn't be losing relatively easy LPS. My biggest worry currently are my five or so hammers and lobo, that seem quite shrunken.
Any tips or ideas very welcome! I am going to continue trying to beat the dinos and raising PAR and I will not be adding any more coral any time soon after losing hundreds of pounds worth now! Also, if you need anymore information or photos, I'm very happy to provide it!
