Who can safely live with two blue leg hermits and deal with hair algae?

[heathermoor]

Hi, I have a 10 US gallon nano tank and have only had it up and running for about just under a year. It doesnt have a refugium or anything like that - everything is in the tank, filter, heater, skimmer.

I wanted the tank to keep blue leg hermits and I have two. I had a diadem dottyback who sadly died after some months and an initial recovery that then failed, of some internal issues despite the best efforts of Reef2reef experts to help me - which knocked me back for a while in confidence (and sadness). But I have rallied and want to progress.

The hermits are my tanks main events - I really like them. But they are little devils. I have tried to start keeping corals but they behave badly with them - I caught one of them with a claw right down inside my duncan coral frag's mouth, rummaging inside it like it was looking for something lost in a full shopping bag! They painstakingly nipped around the places where my 3 coral frags (a duncan, a green clove coral and xenia) are glued onto the frag plug, detached them and then basically roughed them up all around the tank bottom like footballs. They nipped pieces off the xenia - I dont know if they ate any or not. I have to keep the corals up off any surfaces now, where the hermits cannot reach them - they are suspended in the water in an old transparent fish breeder box. An existence which the corals seem to enjoy actually, coming out and waving their thingies about very chirpily and enthusisatically now, as I suppose you would if your previous life involved being beaten up every night. But this doesnt seem long term sustainable to me and is in no way aesthetically quite the thing.

I want my tank to look like one of the tanks I see in pictures on here, with corals placed on the rocks, not the current strange arrangements. But I also face another problem. Hair algae is rife in my tank, all over the rocks in little clumps that are hard to pull out and also getting all over the corals even in the fish breeder box. Every week I have to physically pinch it off the corals and the clove coral frag has died in the middle as a result. It grows back on within a week.

Currently I have been trying to basically scrub it out and hope that eventually it will give up. Each week I take the 3 corals and 2 hermits out of the tank so I cant accidentally injure them and scrub away at the rock, catching the loosened floating algae in a filter and also siphoning it as I go, then put them back. I was hoping to get on top of it that way, but no. Its back within the week. Needless to say, the crabs have little to no interest in it. I see them picking at it, but they make no impression on it at all. This weekly manhandling of the livestock isn't sustainable either - it seems stressful for the creatures and not in any way conducive to having an established aquascape is it?

I have reduced the light, but dont want to kill my corals by having no light and I dont have anywhere else to put them.

I've invested in a tunze 9001 skimmer as I thought that might reduce nutrients for the algae although there didnt seem that much for them - my tests typically showed

pH - 8.0
Ammon - 0
Nitrite - 0
Nitrate - 0
KH/Alk - 9.0
Mag - 1290
Phosphate - 0.03ppm
Calcium - 450

These values are pretty stable from week to week, there or thereabouts. The skimmer chugs away nicely and produces some very pale tea-coloured water but the algae persists.

I feed the corals on an occasional shot - about a couple of ml - of seachem reef phytoplankton about 2/3 times a week directly on them in their box and the duncan and hermits like to eat the hikari marin s pellets I have left that the dotty back used to enjoy - 2/3 times a week.

I've put copepods in as i read that they might help, which are entertaining little things but have had no effect. They seem to survive the scrubbing.

I put some sea lettuce algae in there to outcompete the hair algae for nutrients. It was outcompeted by the hermits who thought it was delicious.

So the next step I am considering is a Tuxedo Urchin. I have read about them a lot and I understand that they are good at attacking and clearing algae? I think my tank is too small for a tuxedo urchin in terms of providing its food, but I have no problem at all in feeding it bought food. Whether in welfare terms it is right is another matter - would it suffer from not having space to roam or is that not an issue as its not a swimmer? They look like entertaining creatures but above all I want a peaceful happy stress-free tank for any inhabitants and thereby for me.

I'm looking at the urchin because its my belief that no snail I purchased - which would otherwise be my go-to to deal with algae - would be safe from the hermits. They would love to have a go at them, is my belief. I really dont want any foreseeable and avoidable deaths of creatures I bring in.

I also believe that the urchin would not harm the hermits - but if anyone knows different please let me know, as their well being is no 1. in these considerations. Despite all they get up to, I'm fond of them. I'm a bit concerned by stories of urchins 'decorating' themselves - I dont want to get up one morning to see a tuxedo urchin 'wearing' an injured hermit.

I'd be grateful for any views on whether an urchin seems a way forward, or any other suggestions. I'm scared of using chemical solutions on the hair algae, I just dont like the idea, it seems like a big intervention that might completely knock my tank out of kilter and I only have the one tank so I have no backup place to put the hermits if that happens.

Reading this list of woe over, it seems like the answer to how to go forward might be 'give up', or resign myself to the weekly scrub out and weird arrangements that are not pretty but seem to keep everyone safe and happy. Which I will if thats best. But I cant help thinking there must be a better way than this. So any help, advice or suggestions are most welcome.

And in any case, if you are still with me, thanks for reading this far.

 

[Mark Goode]

Sally Lightfoot. I have two, and nuisance algae seems to be their favourite food.

 

[heathermoor]

I've never thought about those or even read about them. I'lll go and do that now, thankyou!

Sally Lightfoot. I have two, and nuisance algae seems to be their favourite food.

 

[heathermoor]

Look a little big and scary? Might hermits also be on their menu?

 

[Mark Goode]

I've never thought about those or even read about them. I'lll go and do that now, thankyou!

Be aware that there are two species that go by the Sally Lightfoot name. It's the percnon something that you want. Very fast, very active, and very entertaining.

 

[Mark Goode]

Look a little big and scary? Might hermits also be on their menu?

I've had no problems with them, but in a 10 gallon? Dunno. It's worth doing a bit of research on them though.

 

[heathermoor]

Looked up the Percnon gibbi....oh goodness, the name has gone already. One on line fish store says when they get large they can become aggressive and catch and eat small invertebrates and fish. I'm so risk averse! And in my tiny tank not much scope for getting away. Have you had tuxedo urchin experience? What do you think about that?

 

[Mark Goode]

Looked up the Percnon gibbi....oh goodness, the name has gone already. One on line fish store says when they get large they can become aggressive and catch and eat small invertebrates and fish. I'm so risk averse! And in my tiny tank not much scope for getting away. Have you had tuxedo urchin experience? What do you think about that?

With those tiny claws? I'd be surprised, but perhaps wise not to take the risk. No experience with urchins, I've heard they are bulldozers so I've avoided them.

 

[heathermoor]

I've never seen a Sally Lightfoot crab - I'll look out for them in future. Yes - I'm not entirely satisfied that the urchin is a good idea. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts!

 

[JaaxReef]

A small Tuxedo urchin would do the trick in my book. Make sure your stuff is glued down and it’s worth it.

 

[heathermoor]

The more I read the more I end up approaching that conclusion. Do you think it would do anything bad to the hermits?

 

[crusso1993]

I cannot offer any personal experience but @OrchidMiss keeps a nice Sally Lightfoot in one of her tanks. Hopefully she’ll come in and share her experience!

 

[heathermoor]

Thanks. All I read though seems to say that Sally Lightfoots are omnivores not vegetarians and hence combination of that, small tank and large size compared to hermits when they grow up is backing me off them really.

But I'm grateful to everyone who is giving their thoughts and efforts to help me.

 

[OrchidMiss]

I cannot offer any personal experience but @OrchidMiss keeps a nice Sally Lightfoot in one of her tanks. Hopefully she’ll come in and share her experience!

I had a sally in my 55 a couple years ago. Was a very fun crab to watch. I didn't really notice it so much in terms of algae consumption, as that wasn't the reason I added the crab. I was just looking for some entertainment and a new character to add to the tank.
I have had much better success with different snails, rather than crabs, when it comes to the algae management.
I did have success with a long-spined urchin, but as soon as the algae was under control, the urchin disappeared - I can only assume it died of starvation.
@crusso1993 I think you're thinking of the arrow crab I have in my 20g. Which, I do have to say, I saw eating one of the 2 pistol shrimp.... I just fed him clams last night, too. Jerk.

 

[crusso1993]

I had a sally in my 55 a couple years ago. Was a very fun crab to watch. I didn't really notice it so much in terms of algae consumption, as that wasn't the reason I added the crab. I was just looking for some entertainment and a new character to add to the tank.
I have had much better success with different snails, rather than crabs, when it comes to the algae management.
I did have success with a long-spined urchin, but as soon as the algae was under control, the urchin disappeared - I can only assume it died of starvation.
@crusso1993 I think you're thinking of the arrow craw I have in my 20g. Which, I do have to say, I saw eating one of the 2 pistol shrimp.... I just fed him clams last night, too. Jerk.

Son-of-a-mother! You’re right and I confused the Arrow with the Sally. Even I’m not sure how I did that as the two are so different.

Thanks for replying though!

 

[kevgib67]

Remember, you are still in the ugly phase and if you started with dry rock it could last another 4-5 months. Im assuming you have much more nitrate that is just being consumed quickly by the hair algae. I don’t know how you would have enough to keep the algae growing with such a small bio load. It could be coming from somewhere else. Do you use rodi or tap water? I have a mix of dwarf red and blue legged hermits that don’t bother any corals or snails. My tuxedo urchin is a work horse and has never bothered any crabs. Turbo snails are great for hair algae also and I doubt your hermits could do any damage because of their size. Also a female emerald crab is excellent for hair algae. When the algae is cleaned up you may need to decrease their number or supplement with food such as nori or algae wafers.

 

[heathermoor]

Remember, you are still in the ugly phase and if you started with dry rock it could last another 4-5 months. Im assuming you have much more nitrate that is just being consumed quickly by the hair algae. I don’t know how you would have enough to keep the algae growing with such a small bio load. It could be coming from somewhere else. Do you use rodi or tap water? I have a mix of dwarf red and blue legged hermits that don’t bother any corals or snails. My tuxedo urchin is a work horse and has never bothered any crabs. Turbo snails are great for hair algae also and I doubt your hermits could do any damage because of their size. Also a female emerald crab is excellent for hair algae. When the algae is cleaned up you may need to decrease their number or supplement with food such as nori or algae wafers.

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes I did start with dry rock. But I only use salt water that I buy ready made up from my lfs, and top up with rodi water that I get there similarly - and they seem like a very good professional and large lfs so I trust them to do it right.

Anyway - reading and researching today I came across another fish store who were selling tuxedo urchins and had some small ones. So I seized the day and drove out and I've got one and brought it home. Its reassuring to read that you have one and it gets on with the job and doesnt cause trouble. I'd estimate it to be about 1.5 cm in diameter so quite tiny. I like that because it gives me time to see its behaviour as it grows before it becomes a big bruiser and I need to find it another home maybe (although I hope not; I dont like parting with pets!) Having said that it looks very small indeed. I'm worried the hermits are going to hurt it now! Just acclimating it now - I thought about 2 hours with drip - and then it can go out. I think I'll just stick with adding that for now and see how it works out. I'd love to have the snails and emerald crabs but I feel like I've stuck my neck out enough for a while with this urchin. Hopefully it is going to do the job and be a fun pet in its own right.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Thanks for your thoughts. Yes I did start with dry rock. But I only use salt water that I buy ready made up from my lfs, and top up with rodi water that I get there similarly - and they seem like a very good professional and large lfs so I trust them to do it right.

Anyway - reading and researching today I came across another fish store who were selling tuxedo urchins and had some small ones. So I seized the day and drove out and I've got one and brought it home. Its reassuring to read that you have one and it gets on with the job and doesnt cause trouble. I'd estimate it to be about 1.5 cm in diameter so quite tiny. I like that because it gives me time to see its behaviour as it grows before it becomes a big bruiser and I need to find it another home maybe (although I hope not; I dont like parting with pets!) Having said that it looks very small indeed. I'm worried the hermits are going to hurt it now! Just acclimating it now - I thought about 2 hours with drip - and then it can go out. I think I'll just stick with adding that for now and see how it works out. I'd love to have the snails and emerald crabs but I feel like I've stuck my neck out enough for a while with this urchin. Hopefully it is going to do the job and be a fun pet in its own right.

Your urchin will be fine alone and at worst your urchin will use hermits as camouflage, they throw out these like bubble tipped feelers that grab onto everything loose, I have alot of dove snails that it picks up constantly but I just use a spoon to remove from urchins grasp quite easily, they are great for algae not only eating it but also pulling it off rooks to use as camoflouge.

They can demolish alot of algae of rocks/ more than you think so I have turned of my u.v. to promote/ keep enough algae growing for my tuxedo urchin, I also have hermits of various variety

 

[heathermoor]

Feeling even calmer about it now I've read that and seen your pics! Very interesting and reassuring!

Many thanks to you and thanks to all here who have helped me today. Even if this doesnt entirely cure the algae, its been a good day!

 

[Rick's Reviews]

Feeling even calmer about it now I've read that and seen your pics! Very interesting and reassuring!

Many thanks to you and thanks to all here who have helped me today. Even if this doesnt entirely cure the algae, its been a good day!

Surely in a 10g aquarium it can't be that bad, do you have any pictures, besides adding life, best way to remove algae is manually, even sections/rocks at a time you can remove quite quickly with little effort