Was treating with Mypo Now my Dottybacks eyes have gone Big!!! HELP!!!!

[David1000]

Hello, I am in urgent need of help!!!!!

I was treating my QT Tank with Hypo Salinity at 1.09 Salinity to treat what I believe was/is Gill flukes on my orchid dottyback fish that was flashing a lot!! , I had an ATO on and was at about 28 Days at 1.09 Salinity and I noticed my Orchid dottyback was getting worse and lying down a lot, I have been keeping an eye on PH and dosed some marine buffer when my tests dipped to a low PH every so often. I noticed my salinity somehow dipped to 1.07-8 Ish so I immediately compensated and added some salt water bit bit bit over an hour to bring it back up. It's been 2 more days and I have noticed my orchid dottybacks eyes have ballooned up quite a bit today and im not sure what's happening??

I want to put it in fresh new tank water in case there is a water issue however I need to slowly bring up the salinity to do this! Unless I match it for now? and bring it up over the next 24 hours? to 1.024 What's going on? What caused this and how can I fix it? There is a bi-colour blenny in there with the dottyback and there is a small rock and some pipework for hiding. Could they have had a fight or is this a water issue? The eyes look really big!
Ill try and add a photo but the fish is hiding at the moment.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello, I am in urgent need of help!!!!!

I was treating my QT Tank with Hypo Salinity at 1.09 Salinity to treat what I believe was/is Gill flukes on my orchid dottyback fish that was flashing a lot!! , I had an ATO on and was at about 28 Days at 1.09 Salinity and I noticed my Orchid dottyback was getting worse and lying down a lot, I have been keeping an eye on PH and dosed some marine buffer when my tests dipped to a low PH every so often. I noticed my salinity somehow dipped to 1.07-8 Ish so I immediately compensated and added some salt water bit bit bit over an hour to bring it back up. It's been 2 more days and I have noticed my orchid dottybacks eyes have ballooned up quite a bit today and im not sure what's happening??

I want to put it in fresh new tank water in case there is a water issue however I need to slowly bring up the salinity to do this! Unless I match it for now? and bring it up over the next 24 hours? to 1.024 What's going on? What caused this and how can I fix it? There is a bi-colour blenny in there with the dottyback and there is a small rock and some pipework for hiding. Could they have had a fight or is this a water issue? The eyes look really big!
Ill try and add a photo but the fish is hiding at the moment.

Bringing up salinity will be slower than that based on volume. Understand also that hyposalinity at 1.009 is for ich and not flukes and this particular fish does not do well in hypo.
For flukes , you want praziquantel which is PraziPro. Yes, you will need to get salinity up but as an example one quart of water out and replace with a quart of water at 1.026 Repeat hourly to be safe until you reach desired salt level. A FW dip for flukes is temporary relief- Not a cure

 

[David1000]

Bringing up salinity will be slower than that based on volume. Understand also that hyposalinity at 1.009 is for ich and not flukes and this particular fish does not do well in hypo.
For flukes , you want praziquantel which is PraziPro. Yes, you will need to get salinity up but as an example one quart of water out and replace with a quart of water at 1.026 Repeat hourly to be safe until you reach desired salt level. A FW dip for flukes is temporary relief- Not a cure

I am based in the UK and tried praziquantel (Fluke Solve over here) Its a KOI Brand. The Fish Did not respond well to this at all and within a few minutes was frantic and eventually settled belly up not looking great at all. I immediately removed the fish and got a fresh QT set up and opted for the Hypo Salinity method. I have been following Humble Fishes Forum for guidance with this and I was under the understanding that Hypo can treat flukes and is more gentle on the fish.

I think for now I want to get the tank stable at a normal salinity and try and treat the eye issue I am seeing on this fish and then work on reviewing if the fluke issue has been solved and what to do about that next. Do you know what causes the eye to swell up and what is available in the UK To treat this? Im looking locally and I can see

NT Labs Acriflavin Or​

AquaCare Marine Anti-Bacterial​

Seem to be my local options at my LFS. Do you know if these will help with the eyes?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello, I am in urgent need of help!!!!!

I was treating my QT Tank with Hypo Salinity at 1.09 Salinity to treat what I believe was/is Gill flukes on my orchid dottyback fish that was flashing a lot!! , I had an ATO on and was at about 28 Days at 1.09 Salinity and I noticed my Orchid dottyback was getting worse and lying down a lot, I have been keeping an eye on PH and dosed some marine buffer when my tests dipped to a low PH every so often. I noticed my salinity somehow dipped to 1.07-8 Ish so I immediately compensated and added some salt water bit bit bit over an hour to bring it back up. It's been 2 more days and I have noticed my orchid dottybacks eyes have ballooned up quite a bit today and im not sure what's happening??

I want to put it in fresh new tank water in case there is a water issue however I need to slowly bring up the salinity to do this! Unless I match it for now? and bring it up over the next 24 hours? to 1.024 What's going on? What caused this and how can I fix it? There is a bi-colour blenny in there with the dottyback and there is a small rock and some pipework for hiding. Could they have had a fight or is this a water issue? The eyes look really big!
Ill try and add a photo but the fish is hiding at the moment.

Are the eyes opaque cloudy or clear?

Clear eye swelling is from edema. That is caused by the fish trying to compensate for the too low salinity, but not being able to keep up and freshwater floods into its tissues. Hyposalinity treatments are a bit tricky - not all fish tolerate them well, and no fish does well at a specific gravity below 1.009. For fluke treatments, I suggest a specific gravity of 1.012, I only use 1.009 when trying to treat ich.

You should return it to normal salinity over 4 or 5 days, not 24 hours. It should recover if its kidney's have not been damaged. 28 days of hypo is sufficient to cure the fish if they had flukes.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I am based in the UK and tried praziquantel (Fluke Solve over here) Its a KOI Brand. The Fish Did not respond well to this at all and within a few minutes was frantic and eventually settled belly up not looking great at all. I immediately removed the fish and got a fresh QT set up and opted for the Hypo Salinity method. I have been following Humble Fishes Forum for guidance with this and I was under the understanding that Hypo can treat flukes and is more gentle on the fish.

I think for now I want to get the tank stable at a normal salinity and try and treat the eye issue I am seeing on this fish and then work on reviewing if the fluke issue has been solved and what to do about that next. Do you know what causes the eye to swell up and what is available in the UK To treat this? Im looking locally and I can see

NT Labs Acriflavin Or​

AquaCare Marine Anti-Bacterial​

Seem to be my local options at my LFS. Do you know if these will help with the eyes?

I would continue with Humblefish or take out advice. Its fighting to compensate for low salt and its an assumption that its flukes. Fluke signs will be loss of appetite, heavy breathing , scratching and darting and clamped fins as example. The eyes are assumed by many to be flukes.
Pics of fish under white lighting would be very helpful. If flukes, in your country would be Sera Tremazole

 

[David1000]

I would continue with Humblefish or take out advice. Its fighting to compensate for low salt and its an assumption that its flukes. Fluke signs will be loss of appetite, heavy breathing , scratching and darting and clamped fins as example. The eyes are assumed by many to be flukes.
Pics of fish under white lighting would be very helpful. If flukes, in your country would be Sera Tremazole

I am slowly bringing up the salinity, I have provided some more photos : Its quite difficult to see, I have attached a few more photos and videos but I believe it is cloudy yes. I'm at a loss with what to do really here. Its fins are looking torn too, Im fairly sure its not ich/velvet. This fish has been through a full HTTM and low 1.09 salinity for 28 days. Im guessing the dip of low salinity down to 1.07 a fight with the blenny or something else like bacteria has caused this? It still seems to be swimming oddly, almost twitching but this is my first dottyback so I am not sure if this is normal behavior or not. Im very slowly raising the salinity. I am considering doing a 100% water swap tonight and matching the salinity to the current levels in the QT to rule out water issues. Is this advisable? I am also going to separate off the blenny with a breeding net to ensure no fighting can happen.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I am slowly bringing up the salinity, I have provided some more photos : Its quite difficult to see, I have attached a few more photos and videos but I believe it is cloudy yes. I'm at a loss with what to do really here. Its fins are looking torn too, Im fairly sure its not ich/velvet. This fish has been through a full HTTM and low 1.09 salinity for 28 days. Im guessing the dip of low salinity down to 1.07 a fight with the blenny or something else like bacteria has caused this? It still seems to be swimming oddly, almost twitching but this is my first dottyback so I am not sure if this is normal behavior or not. Im very slowly raising the salinity. I am considering doing a 100% water swap tonight and matching the salinity to the current levels in the QT to rule out water issues. Is this advisable? I am also going to separate off the blenny with a breeding net to ensure no fighting can happen.

Thanks for good and clear pics. Fish appears to be a victim of aggression and stress and not flukes. The damage seen is something a clown or damsel would do.
What other fish are in the tank with this fish ?
Do not subject fish to a sudden rise in salinity which can cause shock/osmotic shock. The cloudy/hazy eye may be due to injury from aggression opposed to disease.

 

[David1000]

Thanks for good and clear pics. Fish appears to be a victim of aggression and stress and not flukes. The damage seen is something a clown or damsel would do.
What other fish are in the tank with this fish ?
Do not subject fish to a sudden rise in salinity which can cause shock/osmotic shock. The cloudy/hazy eye may be due to injury from aggression opposed to disease.

There is a bi-colored blenny in the QT tank with it. I have separated these now. The dotty back was flashing or scratching prior to the Low salinity treatment, I have attached a photo of this before the eye issue. If I raise the salinity over the next few days a little bit every few hours at a time, and separate the fish is it likely it will recover?

The dotty back has been sitting on the bottom of the tank for the past few days something doesn't seem right with it. The reason I treated for Flukes was due to this behavior 9In the video) so if it doesn't look like flukes does it just seem like aggression for this injury? and I dont need to worry about the flashing/rubbing behavior in the video ?

 

[vetteguy53081]

There is a bi-colored blenny in the QT tank with it. I have separated these now. The dotty back was flashing or scratching prior to the Low salinity treatment, I have attached a photo of this before the eye issue. If I raise the salinity over the next few days a little bit every few hours at a time, and separate the fish is it likely it will recover?

The dotty back has been sitting on the bottom of the tank for the past few days something doesn't seem right with it. The reason I treated for Flukes was due to this behavior 9In the video) so if it doesn't look like flukes does it just seem like aggression for this injury? and I dont need to worry about the flashing/rubbing behavior in the video ?

This can be in part based on amount of aggression this fish endured. I dont see elevated breathing or other tell tale signs suggesting disease. I see a dot near the fin which is something to keep an eye on assuring it does not increase in number

 

[sc50964]

I am slowly bringing up the salinity, I have provided some more photos : Its quite difficult to see, I have attached a few more photos and videos but I believe it is cloudy yes. I'm at a loss with what to do really here. Its fins are looking torn too, Im fairly sure its not ich/velvet. This fish has been through a full HTTM and low 1.09 salinity for 28 days. Im guessing the dip of low salinity down to 1.07 a fight with the blenny or something else like bacteria has caused this? It still seems to be swimming oddly, almost twitching but this is my first dottyback so I am not sure if this is normal behavior or not. Im very slowly raising the salinity. I am considering doing a 100% water swap tonight and matching the salinity to the current levels in the QT to rule out water issues. Is this advisable? I am also going to separate off the blenny with a breeding net to ensure no fighting can happen.

If both eyes are swollen & cloudy, then that is typically not the result of a fight or injury. Its tail also appears to be torn but it's hard to tell if the same are with the pectoral fins. Are they also torn?

How is the blenny doing? Does he have anything?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

There is a bi-colored blenny in the QT tank with it. I have separated these now. The dotty back was flashing or scratching prior to the Low salinity treatment, I have attached a photo of this before the eye issue. If I raise the salinity over the next few days a little bit every few hours at a time, and separate the fish is it likely it will recover?

The dotty back has been sitting on the bottom of the tank for the past few days something doesn't seem right with it. The reason I treated for Flukes was due to this behavior 9In the video) so if it doesn't look like flukes does it just seem like aggression for this injury? and I dont need to worry about the flashing/rubbing behavior in the video ?

+1 - the ripped fins AND the swollen eyes is a result of physical damage, usually tankmate aggression. Edema would only cause eye issues.
Jay

 

[David1000]

I'm at a bit of a loss here with what to do, The dotty back is still alive just about. it's on the surface 99% of the time barely moving, it's not taking food. Its breathing and shuffling itself about now and again and seems to be trying to get up high in the water near the top.
I think there's allot of pressure in the eye, it's really bulged up. I am currently on day 3 of dosing Waterlife Myxazin and there's no improvement. So I don't believe it's bacterial. I think the swelling is causing more issues at this point. Im not sure how to reduce this as I don't think its specifically a parasite or issue I've come across. My Last Guesses would be eye flukes but I cant get a good enough photo to check and i doubt it could be after 1.09 salinity for 28 days or its the potential fish fight trauma from the blenny that is making it swell and it's struggling to do anything while its swollen this bad due to pain?(I have since separated them)
Do I consider euthanizing the fish (Id really rather give it all options before this) If bacterial treatment isn't doing much what else can I attempt? I've ordered some stress guard to try and help reduce the stress of the fish while it attempts recovery and Epsom salts too as this seemed the only inflammation option. The fish is hanging on but unless I can get it swimming and taking food in the next few days I cant see it lasting more than 2-3 days.

The blenny seems fine, he has been a little more reclusive since I put him in a separate not but I can really see him too much to tell. has definitely not at the top panting for breath and I cant see eye issues on him, so Id guess trauma could be the cause on the dotty backs eye and fins

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I'm at a bit of a loss here with what to do, The dotty back is still alive just about. it's on the surface 99% of the time barely moving, it's not taking food. Its breathing and shuffling itself about now and again and seems to be trying to get up high in the water near the top.
I think there's allot of pressure in the eye, it's really bulged up. I am currently on day 3 of dosing Waterlife Myxazin and there's no improvement. So I don't believe it's bacterial. I think the swelling is causing more issues at this point. Im not sure how to reduce this as I don't think its specifically a parasite or issue I've come across. My Last Guesses would be eye flukes but I cant get a good enough photo to check and i doubt it could be after 1.09 salinity for 28 days or its the potential fish fight trauma from the blenny that is making it swell and it's struggling to do anything while its swollen this bad due to pain?(I have since separated them)
Do I consider euthanizing the fish (Id really rather give it all options before this) If bacterial treatment isn't doing much what else can I attempt? I've ordered some stress guard to try and help reduce the stress of the fish while it attempts recovery and Epsom salts too as this seemed the only inflammation option. The fish is hanging on but unless I can get it swimming and taking food in the next few days I cant see it lasting more than 2-3 days.

The blenny seems fine, he has been a little more reclusive since I put him in a separate not but I can really see him too much to tell. has definitely not at the top panting for breath and I cant see eye issues on him, so Id guess trauma could be the cause on the dotty backs eye and fins

Sorry - it still looks like tankmate aggression to me. I don't see any signs of secondary infection, but in some of these cases, the damage is just too severe for the fish to recover from. Nobody knows how/why physical injury causes this sort of eye swelling, but it is pretty common. Usually, it is just in one eye (like when a fish gets startled and strikes something in the tank) but can involve both eyes if the injuries were repeated, like a fish attacking it. the ripped tail was caused by tankmate aggression, so I'm thinking that's it. Here is an article I wrote on fish eye health:

Aquarium Fish: The ‘Eyes’ Have it: A Review of Eye Health in Aquarium Fishes

Aquarists need to inspect their fish closely every day, for signs of impending health problems. It is much easier to resolve a problem when it first starts, than to attempt a drastic emergency treatment when the fish is close to dying.

reefs.com

Jay

 

[sc50964]

Idk what Waterlife Myxazin is. If it is antibiotics, my exp tells me that it’s virtually useless in an established system bc it’s all consumed by the existing bacteria in the system soon after it’s introduced

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Idk what Waterlife Myxazin is. If it is antibiotics, my exp tells me that it’s virtually useless in an established system bc it’s all consumed by the existing bacteria in the system soon after it’s introduced

Myxazin is a product sold overseas mostly. It is malachite green and acriflavine.

Jay

 

[sc50964]

Myxazin is a product sold overseas mostly. It is malachite green and acriflavine.

Jay

Is that not reef safe?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Is that not reef safe?

Depends on the dose, buy no, at typical published dose rates for malachite green, it would not be reef safe. Many manufacturers though, make products with really low levels of active ingredients....so the product appears to have useful ingredients, but the dose is too low to really do that much.

Jay

 

[David1000]

I have been advised to attempt to Stick a hypodermic needle through the stretched tissue near the top of his eye, not in the eye itself and withdraw the plunger on the needle to reduce the inflammatio/swelling and give the fish a shot at recovery.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I have been advised to attempt to Stick a hypodermic needle through the stretched tissue near the top of his eye, not in the eye itself and withdraw the plunger on the needle to reduce the inflammatio/swelling and give the fish a shot at recovery.

Sorry, that was poor advice. I've done that many, many times and it always failed for me. Here is an excerpt from the article I posted for you:

Aspirating the fluid or gas from behind the eye with a hypodermic needle is usually ineffective, and may actually cause additional trauma through repeated handling the fish. Remember that capture trauma is one of the primary causes of exophthalmia, so capturing the affected fish time and time again to withdraw the gas or fluid is likely to only increase the damage. At the very least, it is imperative to use a sedative or anesthetic when attempting this sort of surgery, both to reduce the fish’s thrashing about, as well as humane consideration of the animal. For unknown reasons, mechanically induced exophthalmia is always restricted to marine fishes.

Jay

 

[David1000]

I have had a read through the documentation you provided (Thank you btw) . But there doesn't seem to be many/any other options other than waiting it out and hoping for recovery other than attempting to revelive pressure via the needle?
do you have any experience with how to reduce the pressure/swelling? To get the fish eating again?
Epson salts? or Other medications?