Vodka dosers- need your help

[drainbamage]

So here's my rough situation- my 34 gallon mixed reef gets dosed 5mL per day vodka. Tank looks real nice, water is crystal clear, LPS's have great colors, etc etc. But- some of my SPS's have lost color. Makes me think I'm stripping too much nutrients out of the tank as the only fish in the tank is a Dwarf lion who gets fed once a week or so, and a mandarin who lives entirely on 'pods.
Maybe once a month I target feed a cube or two of food to the LPS's in the tank. That's the extent of my nutrient input.
On top of it- I'm still battling some hair algae issues in the tank (as in I have hair algae, the fine green form.) In frustration I've decided to try algaefix marine, and so far I can see some change in the algae-however my Blasto's HATE the algaefix, or they hate the algae rubbing against them as it decays, not sure.
Water tests out at 0 phos and 0 nitrate, so can't really determine based upon that how I need to tweak my dosings-but pretty pleased with the overall health of the tank despite the few issues that I'm seeing so not looking to tweak the vodka dose too much (not having bacteria build-ups or similar.)


So what do I need to do to fix up my SPS color issues? add AA's even if that feeds the algae I'm trying to get rid of??
Cut back vodka dosing amounts??
Something else??

thanks for any inputs guys.

 

[johnanddawn]

5ml seems like a lot for that size of tank to me but....

i dosed vodka for about 2 years (actually longer then that in another test tank) but have recently quit because of the colors of my sps

they looked very nice of course but always seemed like they were on the edge, and in two small tank issues i ended up losing some

it seems like they are really sensitive in that state. i quit about a month or two ago and have gone back to a more simple world and my sps have deepened in color a lot and although they may not have that outragous color they seem much hardier and happier already. i don't think i will be going back

so for now cheato/ cuc/ good skimmer/ and water changes are a better way to control my tank parameters (BTW i do not have algae then or now)

if you decide to continue vodka i think you will need to feed more and work on the algae by manual removal at first and hope time finishes it off

 

[Jcr's Reef]

5mL does sound like quiet a bit, especially if your already in the Low Nutrient state. If you have Hair Algae present in the system, your phosphates are going to read 0, as they most likely have already been consumed by the algae.

As for the SPS and LPS, I would think the roles would be reversed and the LPS would be suffering if you are indeed in the Low Nutrient state, as SPS usually thrive here. I would maybe try target feeding your SPS with AA's, and continue to spot feed your LPS and see where that takes you. Maybe also try adding in some other means of bacteria (like MB7), for the SPS to feed off of to

Are you by chance dosing iodine? Might be dosing too much?

 

[drainbamage]

I do dose iodide, but test for it and hold steady within boundary readings (about .03ppm)

I know the phosphate is a frustrating issue- seems if there's even some algae and less-than excessive overfeeding of the tank, the algae will consume all the phosphates and prevent the reading.

I know 5mL is a lot- I blame SDguy who doses his tank fairly heavily with it and has been a bad influence :tongue: Now to my understanding- if I was overdosing the vodka, wouldn't I see excess bacteria blooming in the tank? When i first started up, I did and used 4 days of 3mL/day of H2O2 to disperse it- and have not had any bacteria blooms since. Is it possible that something residual from the H202 (been a week since I dosed any if not longer) is somehow preventing me noticing the excess? That said- a few of my pieces have lost color for well in excess of 2-3 months- so the H202 wouldn't be that cause.

So now my problem is that I'm trying to eliminate the HA (been battling it for over a year in this tank, didn't have sufficient flow which combined with my Totoka live rock, caused problems) while also getting some color back into the SPS. If I begin dosing some AA, won't I just be feeding the HA? Oh- and I use 0 TDS RO/DI for all water changes and top-off from my BRS RO unit.

None of the SPS's look like their health is at risk- the affected ones simply aren't nearly as colorful as they once were, and have reduced PE. Meanwhile though, others, such as my pearlberry, have never looked better, and some like my hawkins echinata have better PE than ever (which I attribute to the vodka dosing.) So yea....ugh! what do I do?

 

[Troylee]

Seems like alot of vodka but if you were to low on nutrients I
Would think the Lps would suffer before the sps honestly.... What kind of flow you got in there???

 

[drainbamage]

Seems like alot of vodka but if you were to low on nutrients I
Would think the Lps would suffer before the sps honestly.... What kind of flow you got in there???

The blasto's, Acans, Fungias, Pagoda's, Euphyllias, and heck, even the couple chalice frags that are sitting on the frag rack all seem happy as heck- so that's why I'm real confused of it being a excessive lack of nutrients.

I failed to mention- I do have zeovit rocks in an eheim 2213 hooked to the tank, but besides some occasional MB7 dosing, don't add any other zeovit methods. Want to try the coral snow seeing Sunny's success, but as of now don't want to keep twiddling with things too much.

For flow- I use a vortech MP-10, the two "return" powerheads from the AIO chamber (it's a red sea max), a K1, and when I recently tore down the tank to catch a wrasse, also placed a K2 in the rockpile but haven't turned it on as of yet. The HA is mostly growing in all the places that are hard to get at- such as around polyps, within SPS' skeletons, etc. However, a lot of the areas it's growing are now places that are getting fairly high flow.
Previously I had used a sea hare to eliminate the HA, but when he decimated some of my high-end zoa's, he's never getting a welcome back.

 

[DrTrey]

Hmmm. The hair algae conundrum can be quite frustrating alright. It does sound like you are dosing quite a bit of vodka for a tank that's not being fed much. I think that you might want to cut the vodka back to 2.5 ml or so for a week or two, and see if your SPS colors up a bit. And perhaps some modest dosing of amino acids or Coral Restor would help the SPS, as well. I'd avoid the Coral Snow if I were you, as that stuff is like liquid fertilizer and would just be adding fuel to the fire. Good luck, and please keep us posted on your course of action and subsequent outcome

 

[drainbamage]

Hmmm. The hair algae conundrum can be quite frustrating alright. It does sound like you are dosing quite a bit of vodka for a tank that's not being fed much. I think that you might want to cut the vodka back to 2.5 ml or so for a week or two, and see if your SPS colors up a bit. And perhaps some modest dosing of amino acids or Coral Restor would help the SPS, as well. I'd avoid the Coral Snow if I were you, as that stuff is like liquid fertilizer and would just be adding fuel to the fire. Good luck, and please keep us posted on your course of action and subsequent outcome

I'll give it a shot with reduction of vodka dosing and see the change one way or another.

The coral snow I'm thinking of isn't the food stuff, it's the bacteria culture that Sonny talks about in his tank thread. Can't recall the maker, but yea, it's not the particulate food, that would be the last thing I'd want to dump in right now!!

 

[Paul_N]

DB, is the 4.5ml your maintenance dose. Once you get your N and P the levels you have, you are suppose to cut it in half for your continued maintenance dose.

This was the one I followed when I initially started: Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com

"When your NO3 and PO4 levels drop near undetectable with your test kits cut your current dose in half. This will be your starting maintenance dose (if the levels drop during week 2 then the dose after reaching undetectable levels would be 0.65ml daily [1.3ml divide by 2])."

 

[drainbamage]

Yea Paul...when i first did VD I followed the guide- the second time, i ditched the guide and just ran with it and had good success, aside from the lack of color in a few of my SPS. This current time period is the third time as I had run out of vodka at the same time I ran out of cash and sort of was forced to discontinue the dosing, hah.

Even before beginning my regimens however, I was unable to detect either nitrate or phosphate using my salifert kits. So the idea of changing my dosing based upon those readings didn't work for me, whereby I simply ran with how my tank looked and adjusted accordingly (going off of PE, LPS extension, water clarity, etc.)
So yes, the 5mL is my maintenance dosing, not the ramp up or peak dosing.

 

[lowfi]

I have problems with faded colors in my SPS also. I'm not seeing a lot of PE either, however I blame a lot of that on my flame angel. I will be following along with this thread. I always like to keep an eye on threads that discuss the topic of LNS/ULNS systems with faded corals but are battling algae. It seems to be a constant tightrope walk with feeding more to a nutrient deprived system while at the same time trying to figure out how to beat nuisance algae.

 

[drainbamage]

lowfi- good to see you on here!

 

[lowfi]

my SPS is terrible right now. they arent dying but they definitely arent thriving. i hand dose my supplements. trying to work on the balance. ugg. they are starting to color up a bit, so I think my tank was very nutrient deprived. I really have no idea though.

 

[lowfi]

actually thinking about cutting my vodka in half. im dosing about 3mL's twice a day.

 

[Reef UP]

Hey just a couple of things, your colors are fading because lack of nutrients! These can be replaced by amino acids I like seachem reef plus as it has many other vitamins in it, I also use the brightwells AA's for your tank I'd do 2ml a day of the reef plus and 1 drop of the brightwells, these have gave me the more natural colored corals and not the vibrant fluorescent stripped of health look! Second not the algaefix will kill your pods (did for me) watch your mandarin if it starts to skinny up you'll need to sup feed it, then after you're done with your regimen of algaefix introduce a piece or two of live rock or macro algae from one of your other tanks to restart your pod population! Hope this helps! Just a side note my tank is a 125 AGA and I dose 12ml vod/1mlmb7 a day !

 

[Reggie]

I've been dosing vodka since August 2009. My maintenance dose on my 30g is 4ml/day. I think the trick is to not really have 0 nitrates, as well as to replenish AA and trace elements.

I suggest you cut the amount immediately in half, and test for nitrates every 3 days. If it has gone up add 0.5ml and restest after 3 days again until it starts going down. When it starts going down, that's your new maintenance dose amount.

I've used both Elos and ZeoVit AA and I prefer ZeoVit, but now, after talking to Red Sea's chief scientist Sharon Ram (great fellow) at Reef Stock, I'm trying out Red Sea's new AA and trace element products.

 

[drainbamage]

problem reggie- I've never detected nitrates since the tank has been up. So waiting for the 'trates to show is going to end up with my maintenance dose being 0mL- which obviously isn't my goal, lol.

Let me know what you think of red sea's stuff- personally I don't purchase any of their products for some reasons not polite to discuss, but curious what you find.

Do have a bottle of brightwells AA though, so can start dosing it. Just hesitant to dump nutrients in while fighting the HA.

 

[Reggie]

LOL. The more the reason you should cut back your dosing. Don't worry, your Nitrates will go up for sure. You have to find your tank's vodka sweet spot, even if it's only just 0.5ml/day.

 

[drainbamage]

Don't worry, your Nitrates will go up for sure

I've discontinued dosing two times intermittently for a period up to 4 months- and never detected nitrates in that time period, so that method simply isn't going to work in my case. The difference in the tank is apparent, so obviously the vodka is doing something when I'm using it- but won't be able to use the 'trate methods to detect dosing level.

I will be cutting back levels just to see the differences.

 

[Reggie]

Any way you can have your water tested for nitrates and phosphates by a different test kit, maybe from another reefer or LFS? I'm wondering why you are battling HA if you have 0 nitrates and phosphates -- maybe you are overfeeding, but then you should at least detect some phosphates.

I use LaMotte to test my Nitrates and the Hanna Checker for phosphates.