Velvet i

[jaihutcherson]

Hey All!

FOWLR 230g/60g trigger sump, w wave makers 750gph each, bubble mangus curve 7, GFO and Carbon reactor, 52w UV/600gph, fritz pro salt, tank age 18 months, 4 HO T5 Lights, roughly 175 lbs live rock

Fish:
Rhinecanthus Trigger
Clown Trigger - Maybe Dead by Morning
White spotted grouper
Blue Atlantic Tang - Dead
Coral Beauty
Domino Damsil

Porcupine Puffer - looked like death this morning better
Sailfin Tang
Malinauris (spelling) wrasse - dead
Dogface Puffer - touch and go from dead to ???
V. Lion Fish
Snowflake Eel
Black Edge Eel
Banded Moray Eel
Large Sea Urchin

**note: all fish/eels introduced to tank at about 2” and eels about 5” about 14 months ago


Salinity 1.026
Ph 8.0
Nitrate 5
Nitrite 0
Phosphate 10
Ammonia .6
Cal 500
Dkh 7
** note: ammonia, phosphate, nitrate all spiked from last test 4 days ago heavily. Suspecting wrasse that is buried in sand decaying. Always run GFO FEED LIGHTLY….

Ok, so I just got back from 3 day vacation. Had a friend watching the tanks in my house. No incident other than a file fish dying and him calling with pics asking what he did wrong. I assumed little and told him all good. When I got home had white slime bacteria through out over flows and heavy heavy in sump. I could literally scoop handful off pump grill. Immediately treated tank with metroplex and sulfaplex. Followed procedures found here and dosing was exact to meds instructions.

Two days after meds we saw dusting on blue Atlantic tang. Yesterday blue atlantic dead and lionfish looking awful. Put himself on weir to get the flow guessing. Clown fish eyes bugging out beyond anything I’ve ever seen scratching himself on anything he could find dusting all over. Oh, lion still has no outward signs but has not eaten in 3 days. Not like him at all. Eels all good. Porcupine laying on bottom two days ago for day not moving breathing hard hard. Grouper wedged sideways (never done before) between two rocks. Dogface good, beauty good, domino good, Rhinecanthus good. I did about 40% water change started carbon back up and let run eight hours. (I have a huge carbon reactor I usually only fill with about 3 1/2 cups carbon and run about 3 days a week. I added about 6 cups carbon and ran wide open). I then treated for velvet with the Mardel Parashield.

so, that was two days ago- one day after bacterial treatment. Yesterday clown almost all white not moving except heavy breathing. This caused me to add two more air stones…. Total of six, adjust returns so they splash water coming in, and start skimmer with collection cup off to get more oxygen in the system. Treated with Parashield again at same time as day before, inspected all. Clown moving, color back. Porcupine bouncing around tank as usual. Lion back to normal post spot. All ate at feeding.

yesterday, bad day, all started turning white, all but lion and eels dusted, no one ate, no movement in tank but still alive.

Today. I was sure I would wake up to another dead fish. I did not. Same as yesterday except porcupine bouncing around and grouper kinda getting around. All dusted. Eels have no clue there is issue. Lion back at overflow posted up.

so, there is the run down. I’ve spent 3 days pouring through this site for info on what to do. Here is what I think I know and my plan as of now. What I am looking for is a plan or specific instructions to save them. Please.

I can’t treat DT with copper because eels and lion.

I have contacted the supplier for CP but it’s the weekend and I don’t know if they will over night ship. dang that stuff is expensive. I found 100g for $150. If anyone has another source please inform. What I know is I can treat whole tank with this and move nothing.

TTM - my good gawd that would be intense with the fish and eels I have. But here is what I have…. A 90 gallon I just sealed today so 48 hrs. A 55g that’s ready and a 20 gallon that’s ready.

here is what I started to do but want direction because with the puffers it sounds hot or miss….

ive set up a 75 gallon with rock I had brewing for 3 months, pvc tunnels, reef octopus skimmer, vortex wave makers etc to move the eels to for temp. (I have a 400g that will be cured from a fresh seal on tuesday.) that frees the 75 back up.

I was thinking of moving the lion with the eels but read on here I’m still transferring (possible) the velvet with the lion even though he shows no signs.

then move the puffers to the 55 for their temp home.

finally treat the entire DT with copper and get rid of this crap once and for all….. hopefully. ok, but what about puffers? How do I treat them? And the lion? And even though eels are very resistant did I transfer the velvet with them to the 75? If so, how do I treat that tank.

listen, I’m all ears. I’m most likely confusing several methods. I humbly ask for help finding the right path to take to help my fish. I don’t have a crap ton of money but I have what it takes to save them I just can’t afford to lose on bad ideas or concepts I am confusing.

if you have read this far I’m impressed and thank you for as minimum paying attention to a fellow aquatic friend in need!

jai

 

[Yoda3983]

Hi, I'm afraid I cannot help with advise but wanted to add I had a very simular issue but without the ammonia ans NO2 spike. I lost fish at a silly rate 6 in total then thought my regal would go but then the next day he was fine better than ever. Ran loads of carbon and thought all is well. Added a new fish as tester a maroon and she is now looking like she will die after just 3 days with no signs of illness?.

I will watch the thread for advice.

Regards

 

[DrZoidburg]

It sounds like a mess for sure. @Jay Hemdal I would look into what is cp sensitive, and what is copper sensitive. Separate them into two tanks. Any other fish that are really bad put them alone if you have another. If anything cp got more expensive because of its use and studies with covid no break there really. If by sealed you mean new silicone? It only should take 24 hrs cure if its not super thick. Good way is the smell test. If you smell acetic acid its still curing. There is a article or thread on here about which has sensitivities I'll try to find.

 

[DrZoidburg]

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart) The following chart is a quick reference guide on what QT protocol should be used according to which type of fish you are running through QT. It will give you an idea of which methods are generally safest with certain species but is not meant to be...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[jaihutcherson]

Hi, I'm afraid I cannot help with advise but wanted to add I had a very simular issue but without the ammonia ans NO2 spike. I lost fish at a silly rate 6 in total then thought my regal would go but then the next day he was fine better than ever. Ran loads of carbon and thought all is well. Added a new fish as tester a maroon and she is now looking like she will die after just 3 days with no signs of illness?.

I will watch the thread for advice.

Regards

Hey, thanks for replying. Sorry about the loss. It does really suck. It’s 4:58 Dallas time and I’m still at it trying to get enough tank and equipment up and running to try the TTM. I’ll exhaust all options I’ve learned about before giving up.
Jai

 

[jaihutcherson]

It sounds like a mess for sure. @Jay Hemdal I would look into what is cp sensitive, and what is copper sensitive. Separate them into two tanks. Any other fish that are really bad put them alone if you have another. If anything cp got more expensive because of its use and studies with covid no break there really. If by sealed you mean new silicone? It only should take 24 hrs cure if its not super thick. Good way is the smell test. If you smell acetic acid its still curing. There is a article or thread on here about which has sensitivities I'll try to find.

Thanks for the advise. That’s pretty much the direction I’m headed. I have not researched CP sensitivities. I guess I thought I had seen several posts and articles stating it was pretty cool across the board. 48 on the seal job because it’s a 400 with 1” glass meaning a longer seem and seal. I usually am comfy at 24-36 but this thing is a beast. I’ve got a 90 now ready and I’m tearing apart a “sump” in a 55g as well. I’m still trying to figure out how long the eels need to sit in the new 75 before I can move them to their new forever home? Lol the 400g.
Thanks
Jai

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey All!

FOWLR 230g/60g trigger sump, w wave makers 750gph each, bubble mangus curve 7, GFO and Carbon reactor, 52w UV/600gph, fritz pro salt, tank age 18 months, 4 HO T5 Lights, roughly 175 lbs live rock

Fish:
Rhinecanthus Trigger
Clown Trigger - Maybe Dead by Morning
White spotted grouper
Blue Atlantic Tang - Dead
Coral Beauty
Domino Damsil

Porcupine Puffer - looked like death this morning better
Sailfin Tang
Malinauris (spelling) wrasse - dead
Dogface Puffer - touch and go from dead to ???
V. Lion Fish
Snowflake Eel
Black Edge Eel
Banded Moray Eel
Large Sea Urchin

**note: all fish/eels introduced to tank at about 2” and eels about 5” about 14 months ago


Salinity 1.026
Ph 8.0
Nitrate 5
Nitrite 0
Phosphate 10
Ammonia .6
Cal 500
Dkh 7
** note: ammonia, phosphate, nitrate all spiked from last test 4 days ago heavily. Suspecting wrasse that is buried in sand decaying. Always run GFO FEED LIGHTLY….

Ok, so I just got back from 3 day vacation. Had a friend watching the tanks in my house. No incident other than a file fish dying and him calling with pics asking what he did wrong. I assumed little and told him all good. When I got home had white slime bacteria through out over flows and heavy heavy in sump. I could literally scoop handful off pump grill. Immediately treated tank with metroplex and sulfaplex. Followed procedures found here and dosing was exact to meds instructions.

Two days after meds we saw dusting on blue Atlantic tang. Yesterday blue atlantic dead and lionfish looking awful. Put himself on weir to get the flow guessing. Clown fish eyes bugging out beyond anything I’ve ever seen scratching himself on anything he could find dusting all over. Oh, lion still has no outward signs but has not eaten in 3 days. Not like him at all. Eels all good. Porcupine laying on bottom two days ago for day not moving breathing hard hard. Grouper wedged sideways (never done before) between two rocks. Dogface good, beauty good, domino good, Rhinecanthus good. I did about 40% water change started carbon back up and let run eight hours. (I have a huge carbon reactor I usually only fill with about 3 1/2 cups carbon and run about 3 days a week. I added about 6 cups carbon and ran wide open). I then treated for velvet with the Mardel Parashield.

so, that was two days ago- one day after bacterial treatment. Yesterday clown almost all white not moving except heavy breathing. This caused me to add two more air stones…. Total of six, adjust returns so they splash water coming in, and start skimmer with collection cup off to get more oxygen in the system. Treated with Parashield again at same time as day before, inspected all. Clown moving, color back. Porcupine bouncing around tank as usual. Lion back to normal post spot. All ate at feeding.

yesterday, bad day, all started turning white, all but lion and eels dusted, no one ate, no movement in tank but still alive.

Today. I was sure I would wake up to another dead fish. I did not. Same as yesterday except porcupine bouncing around and grouper kinda getting around. All dusted. Eels have no clue there is issue. Lion back at overflow posted up.

so, there is the run down. I’ve spent 3 days pouring through this site for info on what to do. Here is what I think I know and my plan as of now. What I am looking for is a plan or specific instructions to save them. Please.

I can’t treat DT with copper because eels and lion.

I have contacted the supplier for CP but it’s the weekend and I don’t know if they will over night ship. dang that stuff is expensive. I found 100g for $150. If anyone has another source please inform. What I know is I can treat whole tank with this and move nothing.

TTM - my good gawd that would be intense with the fish and eels I have. But here is what I have…. A 90 gallon I just sealed today so 48 hrs. A 55g that’s ready and a 20 gallon that’s ready.

here is what I started to do but want direction because with the puffers it sounds hot or miss….

ive set up a 75 gallon with rock I had brewing for 3 months, pvc tunnels, reef octopus skimmer, vortex wave makers etc to move the eels to for temp. (I have a 400g that will be cured from a fresh seal on tuesday.) that frees the 75 back up.

I was thinking of moving the lion with the eels but read on here I’m still transferring (possible) the velvet with the lion even though he shows no signs.

then move the puffers to the 55 for their temp home.

finally treat the entire DT with copper and get rid of this crap once and for all….. hopefully. ok, but what about puffers? How do I treat them? And the lion? And even though eels are very resistant did I transfer the velvet with them to the 75? If so, how do I treat that tank.

listen, I’m all ears. I’m most likely confusing several methods. I humbly ask for help finding the right path to take to help my fish. I don’t have a crap ton of money but I have what it takes to save them I just can’t afford to lose on bad ideas or concepts I am confusing.

if you have read this far I’m impressed and thank you for as minimum paying attention to a fellow aquatic friend in need!

jai

Wow, sorry to hear this. There looks like a lot on inter-related issues here; water quality, bacteria loading and probable protozoan disease. I will say that the general rule is, once fish loss has occurred, you usually can’t stop things in time for more losses to happen.
Can you post pictures/video?
Was the urchin and any other inverts affected?
Lion fish will tolerate coppersafe betting than cp. eels may go off their feed, but it won’t kill them. Trouble is, copper can take up to 3 days to work.
Jay

 

[jaihutcherson]

Wow, sorry to hear this. There looks like a lot on inter-related issues here; water quality, bacteria loading and probable protozoan disease. I will say that the general rule is, once fish loss has occurred, you usually can’t stop things in time for more losses to happen.
Can you post pictures/video?
Was the urchin and any other inverts affected?
Lion fish will tolerate coppersafe betting than cp. eels may go off their feed, but it won’t kill them. Trouble is, copper can take up to 3 days to work.
Jay

Hey Jay!

thanks for the response. Are you saying treat entire tank with all, including eels, with copper? Or should I separate eels to the temp 75 I have up, running, and ready for them before treating? And yes I agree many factors that I most likely could have avoided has caused this. I do not know anything about bacteria loading but do know I’ve been trying to learn. I still do not know what caused all that slime in just 3 days of me being away. I now have a 90 gallon ready but needs me to install equipment, heaters etc and add water. I have a crap load turbo start as well and the 75 already running and good to go as well as the 55 I removed all the “sump” panels from for another tank to make total of 3. I have enough water made to fill all as well.

thanks for your input. Don’t be afraid to tell me where I screw this up…. Can’t learn otherwise.
Jai

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hey Jay!

thanks for the response. Are you saying treat entire tank with all, including eels, with copper? Or should I separate eels to the temp 75 I have up, running, and ready for them before treating? And yes I agree many factors that I most likely could have avoided has caused this. I do not know anything about bacteria loading but do know I’ve been trying to learn. I still do not know what caused all that slime in just 3 days of me being away. I now have a 90 gallon ready but needs me to install equipment, heaters etc and add water. I have a crap load turbo start as well and the 75 already running and good to go as well as the 55 I removed all the “sump” panels from for another tank to make total of 3. I have enough water made to fill all as well.

thanks for your input. Don’t be afraid to tell me where I screw this up…. Can’t learn otherwise.
Jai

Can you post pictures/video?
Was the urchin and any other inverts affected?

If it is an acute protozoan infection (I'm still not positive on this though) then yes, you need to treat the eels and the lionfish with copper. If it were ich, you could go with hyposalinity or tank transfer method, but if it is velvet, then those two methods won't work, and that leaves copper.

Jay

 

[jaihutcherson]

Can you post pictures/video?
Was the urchin and any other inverts affected?

If it is an acute protozoan infection (I'm still not positive on this though) then yes, you need to treat the eels and the lionfish with copper. If it were ich, you could go with hyposalinity or tank transfer method, but if it is velvet, then those two methods won't work, and that leaves copper.

Jay

Ok, that helps thank you. Here are some pics of the fish that are out. Eels do not show any signs but black edge is not eating. Never seen him pass up food.

Can you post pictures/video?
Was the urchin and any other inverts affected?

If it is an acute protozoan infection (I'm still not positive on this though) then yes, you need to treat the eels and the lionfish with copper. If it were ich, you could go with hyposalinity or tank transfer method, but if it is velvet, then those two methods won't work, and that leaves copper.

Jay

Ok, that helps thank you. Here are some pics of the fish that are out. Eels do not show any signs but black edge is not eating. Never seen him pass up food.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Those spots are really too large to be velvet. The clown trigger almost assuredly has ich, pretty classic case.

Are you seeing any rapid breathing? That is the key symptom for velvet. You can sometimes get both ich and velvet at the same time. Not sure how this could have gotten into your tank though. Any new animal additions in the past 3 months or so?

Parashield is just a combination of plant extracts and oils. No proven efficacy against ich or velvet in any of my references. I would not use this or similar products for acute cases (where fish loss has occurred).

Jay

 

[jaihutcherson]

Those spots are really too large to be velvet. The clown trigger almost assuredly has ich, pretty classic case.

Are you seeing any rapid breathing? That is the key symptom for velvet. You can sometimes get both ich and velvet at the same time. Not sure how this could have gotten into your tank though. Any new animal additions in the past 3 months or so?

Parashield is just a combination of plant extracts and oils. No proven efficacy against ich or velvet in any of my references. I would not use this or similar products for acute cases (where fish loss has occurred).

Jay

First, I want to say thank you for the continued effort here. I need it. Been in the hobby 18 months and have made enough big mistakes to make some run like hell. Lol I think I’m just crazy enough to look at it all as learning…..

I have believed I might have velvet and ich as well based on the first fish to die, Atlantic tang. He seemed to look exactly like all the example pics on velvet in google images. He had rapid breathing for sure. The clown did as well when he still looked dusted. His dusting went to more crystal yesterday. The sailfin now has massive rapid breathing but I honestly have not seen spots as of yet but he has gone into hiding and I have to see him theough rock work. My little domino is dusted as of this morning. He has been clean up til now and he is rapid breathing as aposed to gasping. Lion, eats, reef beauty, and the R. Trigger all breathing and swimming as normal except black edge eel not eating at all.
Nothing new to this tank what do ever except that horrible white slime that I was told is bacteria.

ok, first pic in collection cup. That came off grill of return pump. Second pic is sump side wall covered and that is actually after cleaning a lot out. I literally ran my hand over pump grill and hot softball size slimy clump in hand.

it was not like that 5 or six days ago when I went on 3 day vacation. If anything I clean my sump too much. Right now on 3 separate tanks all my sumps are almost spotless and have been running more than 24 months. The sump on this tank tends to run a bit dirtier since it’s a predator tank with 3 eels. By that I mean I have to change socks more often. Lol. I wipe down all equipment, sump, pipes, etc on a very regular basis. I seal tanks and install tanks/upgrades for a living. I have a lot of folks come see my work to hire me so it has to stay clean and good. My issue is I know hardware not fish at all. Never cared about them until my wife wanted our own tank. Lol. I say all that to say I have no clue we’re or why that bacteria showed up in such massive quantities. I’m obviously doing something wrong and need to understand it.

 

[jaihutcherson]

Those spots are really too large to be velvet. The clown trigger almost assuredly has ich, pretty classic case.

Are you seeing any rapid breathing? That is the key symptom for velvet. You can sometimes get both ich and velvet at the same time. Not sure how this could have gotten into your tank though. Any new animal additions in the past 3 months or so?

Parashield is just a combination of plant extracts and oils. No proven efficacy against ich or velvet in any of my references. I would not use this or similar products for acute cases (where fish loss has occurred).

Jay

One more thing, sorry. I just want to be clear and do right…..

I am stopping the Parashield. Last dose yesterday 3pm.

I am about to remove all rock work from tank. I’d like to get sand too but it’s simply too deep a tank for me to scoop up from top down.

with ALL my fish, eels, puffers in tank I’m going to start a copper treatment. ….
- do I need to start at half dose and work up since like and eels?
- when do I know when to stop treatment?

thanks
Jai

 

[jaihutcherson]

Those spots are really too large to be velvet. The clown trigger almost assuredly has ich, pretty classic case.

Are you seeing any rapid breathing? That is the key symptom for velvet. You can sometimes get both ich and velvet at the same time. Not sure how this could have gotten into your tank though. Any new animal additions in the past 3 months or so?

Parashield is just a combination of plant extracts and oils. No proven efficacy against ich or velvet in any of my references. I would not use this or similar products for acute cases (where fish loss has occurred).

Jay

Taken 30 seconds ago
Clown fish - not looking good

 

[DrZoidburg]

It does look like a mix of the two velvet and ich. Some of the spots on atlantic are kind of small. I was also thinking the slime could be bacteria, stress slime from the eels, or it could be fungus from off rotten fish. Something like over carbon dosing can make snotty looking bacteria. Copper treatments 15-30 days+. Yes you might want to start off lower. If any fish start acting/swimming weird, or not eating over time you might want to lower it. CP 10+.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Im giving you some info here so you can tell the difference in the future , HOWEVER >>>>>>>> Stick with and follow @Jay Hemdal advice.

The best ich treatment is copper-based medication. Rather than treating the main aquarium, move the sick fish to a bare bottomed quarantine or treatment tank. This should be aerated and have the same water conditions as the main aquarium.
Mardel Coppersafe from Fritz Aquatics treats both freshwater and saltwater ich, along with other diseases, including Velvet (Oodinium) and other external parasites. However, because it is a copper-based treatment made from chelated copper sulfate. To use Coppersafe, add 1 teaspoon of medication for every 4 gallons of water, or 1 cup of every 190 gallons. The solution will remain active in the tank for more than one month.
Cupramine, a copper-based treatment from Seachem, treats not only saltwater ich, but also other ectoparasites in freshwater and saltwater tanks. An ionic copper medication, rather than chelated copper, it is non-acidic and doesn't damage the biofilter bacteria. To use Cupramine, turn off UV filters and ozone filters, and remove chemical filtration, such as activated carbon. For every 10.5 gallons of water, use 1 mL of treatment, and then wait 48 hours. Repeat the treatment, and leave at this concentration for 14 days. Test the water for copper levels before redosing the tank.

>>>>> WHEN USING ANY COPPER IN WATER - HAVE A RELIABLE TEST KIT TO MONITOR LEVELS. IT'S A MUST <<<

for velvet:

With ich, you can generally count the dots whereas with velvet, it represents the solar system as in the case of your tang. velvet spots on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target "Oodinium".

 

[jaihutcherson]

It does look like a mix of the two velvet and ich. Some of the spots on atlantic are kind of small. I was also thinking the slime could be bacteria, stress slime from the eels, or it could be fungus from off rotten fish. Something like over carbon dosing can make snotty looking bacteria. Copper treatments 15-30 days+. Yes you might want to start off lower. If any fish start acting/swimming weird, or not eating over time you might want to lower it. CP 10+.

Hey! Thanks for the input.
Been searching for the wrasse that went Mia. Maybe his flesh…..

Cp is still in limbo. Waiting to hear back from the supplier. If it’s regular mail its 8 to 10 days at best before would hit my mailbox. I’m still going to purchase to have on hand but not for this ho round.

the deal with carbon dosing….. this is a 230 with large sump. Because of displacement I call the entire system a 250. I run 3 1/2 cups brs carbon with a flow rate of about 325 (beat calculation) for 10-12 hrs 3 days a week. That’s it. No other carbon dose. I can’t see it as the outbreak in bacteria. All that said, I am very open to it being that and something I need tkk ok learn more about. In your opinion on n could that really cause that kind of bacteria you see in my sump?

copper still scares me. I’m going to do it as those expressing opinions know way more than I. I hate that there are 6000 ideas of right. Lol

thanks
Jai

 

[jaihutcherson]

Im giving you some info here so you can tell the difference in the future , HOWEVER >>>>>>>> Stick with and follow @Jay Hemdal advice.

The best ich treatment is copper-based medication. Rather than treating the main aquarium, move the sick fish to a bare bottomed quarantine or treatment tank. This should be aerated and have the same water conditions as the main aquarium.
Mardel Coppersafe from Fritz Aquatics treats both freshwater and saltwater ich, along with other diseases, including Velvet (Oodinium) and other external parasites. However, because it is a copper-based treatment made from chelated copper sulfate. To use Coppersafe, add 1 teaspoon of medication for every 4 gallons of water, or 1 cup of every 190 gallons. The solution will remain active in the tank for more than one month.
Cupramine, a copper-based treatment from Seachem, treats not only saltwater ich, but also other ectoparasites in freshwater and saltwater tanks. An ionic copper medication, rather than chelated copper, it is non-acidic and doesn't damage the biofilter bacteria. To use Cupramine, turn off UV filters and ozone filters, and remove chemical filtration, such as activated carbon. For every 10.5 gallons of water, use 1 mL of treatment, and then wait 48 hours. Repeat the treatment, and leave at this concentration for 14 days. Test the water for copper levels before redosing the tank.

>>>>> WHEN USING ANY COPPER IN WATER - HAVE A RELIABLE TEST KIT TO MONITOR LEVELS. IT'S A MUST <<<

for velvet:

With ich, you can generally count the dots whereas with velvet, it represents the solar system as in the case of your tang. velvet spots on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target "Oodinium".

Thank you for the info. Very helpful.
One question. If pulling all rock and as much of a 4-6” course substrate as I can get (in a tank I can’t teach bottom in) out do I still need to treat in new qt? Since jay is saying treat all animals and not separate out it seems I could stay in place and offer a bit less stress to them. I will still pull each out to do FW bath?

thanks
Jai

 

[DrZoidburg]

Yes for organic carbon not inert carbon like in reactors. Example got cheap one day dosed a bottle of tonic water in experiment not realizing it had high fructose corn syrup in it (carbon source). 1 day later snot for 3 weeks straight. (dont ask haha) It does kind of look like fungus to me though. Kind of stringy and has a mycelium look to it. Can't be sure without a microscope.

 

[Treefer32]

I don't know that I can add much, but it's kinda the chicken or the egg thing. Is it possible that maybe feeding too much or more than usual, caused a mini cycle for the tank that it wasn't prepared to deal with, this stressed the fish, and caused disease that was already in the tank to become toxic. Did the disease or the water conditions kill them? Probably no way to know. I've seen things like this happen (I went through it) watched 16 fish die 2-3 at a time over a 3 week period. I discovered my heater had been leaking electricity into the display. Several fish showed signs of massive parasite outbreaks, ich, others just died for no reason, labored breathing. etc. I took very few of the fish out and had very little to no ammonia or nitrite in my 350. The reason I say that confidently is because I had corals growing faster and looking nicer than ever as the fish decayed. My algae turf scrubber was producing algae like there was no tomorrow. I don't know if it's helpful but before I put new fish back in I'd rule out stray voltage from heaters, pumps, circulation pumps, etc. . . Just some thoughts.

I really am sorry, it is heart wrenching and so painful to watch. I left my tank alone for 4 months with 1 fish in it after that. That was 2.5 years ago. If it wasn't an in wall tank, I may have just scrapped the hobby alltogether after seeing that. But, back up to 26 fish now, after 2.5 years of rebuilding the reef. And things are doing great! So, all I can offer is to hang in there. This may not be anything you or your vacation watcher could have prevented. You're doing great assessing everything and evaluating all the possibilities.