Upgrading my Return Pump- Suggestions?

[ksed]

Have you tried to remove one of the pumps and tried it under low pressure to see what it does?

 

[Desmond]

I love my vectra and if you dont feel 1 is enough you could run 2 i have seen this done many times

 

[mikedb]

Have you tried to remove one of the pumps and tried it under low pressure to see what it does?

At this point, I'm pretty sure that there is nothing 'wrong' with my specific Varios pumps.

What I am experiencing is a design limitation- that they really can't handle anywhere near the 18ft of head pressure that they specify. In reality, the pumps can only handle about half of their rated head pressure.

Of course, instead of publishing realistic specifications, Reef Octopus/ Coralvue refutes complaints about performance by making up gibberish about how the pumps aren't 'pressure rated', or 'aren't ideal for basement applications'.

They can get away with it, because the vast majority of users don't get near the higher end of the specified head pressure.

FWIW, I would guess that most of the <$500 pumps (COR, Vectra, etc) also don't work very well at higher head pressures. A few of the posts further up in this thread seem to reinforce that suspicion.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I would definitely also add a small sump recirculation pump/powerhead to move water from the third chamber back to the first chamber. This can help negate a lower gph with the display tank.

 

[Peace River]

I have a Varios6 .... i don't even hear a hum from it. There's gotta be something wrong with your Varios8.

+1

I encourage you to reach out to @CoralVue for support before you replace the pumps.

#reefoctopus #Varios @Jeff@CoralVue

 

[JoshH]

+1

I encourage you to reach out to @CoralVue for support before you replace the pumps.

#reefoctopus #Varios @Jeff@CoralVue

He did ... and they told him running the pump from the basement will void the warranty..

 

[mikedb]

I would definitely also add a small sump recirculation pump/powerhead to move water from the third chamber back to the first chamber. This can help negate a lower gph with the display tank.

I'm actually reasonably happy with the current flow levels through the sump, but the extra flow would be nice so that the return 'jet' in my Red Sea Peninsula is a little more powerful and provides a little more flow to the other side of hte tank.

In any event, I am perfectly happy with the current 400GPM flow... it's the noise that is driving me crazy!

+1

I encourage you to reach out to @CoralVue for support before you replace the pumps.

#reefoctopus #Varios @Jeff@CoralVue

I worked with Coralvue/Reef Octopus support over the past few days, and posted their response up in post #12. It was pretty shocking. Instead of helping, they declared my warranty void because I was using the pump in a 'pressure application'.

Since every sump return is a 'pressure application' (although mine, being in a basement, is slightly higher pressure than many), I guess owners of Varios pumps should be worried!

 

[Peace River]

He did ... and they told him running the pump from the basement will void the warranty..

I cross posted with the OP. I saw the OPs follow up post after I submitted mine. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[JoshH]

I'm actually reasonably happy with the current flow levels through the sump, but the extra flow would be nice so that the return 'jet' in my Red Sea Peninsula is a little more powerful and provides a little more flow to the other side of hte tank.

In any event, I am perfectly happy with the current 400GPM flow... it's the noise that is driving me crazy!



I worked with Coralvue/Reef Octopus support over the past few days, and posted their response up in post #12. It was pretty shocking. Instead of helping, they declared my warranty void because I was using the pump in a 'pressure application'.

Since every sump return is a 'pressure application' (although mine, being in a basement, is slightly higher pressure than many), I guess owners of Varios pumps should be worried!

I'm not sure how they can legally post head height ratings and then say you've voided the warranty if your head height falls within there flow charts...

 

[Carlos@CoralVue]

Just to clarify, when we told him that the warranty was void was because he was trying to push water from one floor to the other. That part of the response was omitted from the post here on R2R. Our pumps are not pressure rated so you cannot use them on applications where you go from one floor to the other. We do not advertise nor ever stated that you could use them for that.

We even include that on the product page on our website under the "More Details" tab.



If you are looking for a pump to push water from one floor to the other, like it is the situation here, you need a "Pressure Rated" pump such as the Abyzz or Reeflo.

I felt I needed to make this clarification so that all the information is present and fellow forum members can make an educated decision.

Kind regards!

 

[scardall]

My reef (Red Sea 650 Peninsula with sump located in basement) has been up and running smoothly for about 10 months now. For the most part, I have been very happy with the equipment I chose, with one exception: my Reef Octopus Varios 8 pumps.

While they work, I have been very disappointed by the noise they make. Despite being mounted with soft tubing, I can hear the pumps running all around the house, including the baby room two stories above. Not only are they somewhat loud, but both 'hiccup' every 10-20 seconds, making the noise even more noticable. Most guests don't notice until I point it out, but it is louder than any appliance in my house and I'm not happy. I have throttled the pumps back to around 80% to reduce noise, but that means the flow through the sump is less than I would prefer (~400gph for a 150g system).

Here are my requirements:

• Submersible, DC Pump
• 600 GPH @ 12-14' of head
• 0-10V control (or Apex compatibility)

As far as I can tell, I have the following options (in no particular order):

• Sicce Syncra SDC 9.0: Inexpensive, and rated for a much higher flow at the head pressures I am working with. Reputable brand. But no apex compatibility? Also, several negative reviews about the noise level.
• Abyzz A100: Not cheap! But seems to be high quality. Will be running at nearly 100% at my head pressures. Need a $200 interface cable for 0-10V control, which is very disappointing. I have also heard that there is a new version coming out and that the current offerings are at the end-of-life.
• Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon 3 100W HighPressure: Lower cost than Abyzz, but seemingly good quality. Will be running at nearly 100% at my head pressures. The literature for this product is terrible, but it seems that a $200 interface is also required for 0-10V control? Poor availability at major retailers.

Is there anything else I should be considering? It doesn't seem like I have any great options.

If you could go external you would be better off. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/iwaki-md-100rlt-japanese-motor-2000-gph.html Plus 9 "I measured the noise level about 12 inches away from the pump and its coming in at 75 db. Once the doors of my stand are closed the noise drops to 65 db. Is that noisy as hell? No. The pump is not dead quiet either but the noise it makes is completely acceptable to me. The closest thing I can compare the noise level to is an air compressor running on my neighbors yard about 40+ feet away and having all the windows closed. Will you hear this pump when you walk into the room? yes. If you're looking at buying this pump it's because you need the flow to power many manifolds or pump water from the basement and noise should not be a deal breaker. The only downside of this pump is the power consumption. @390 watts its not the most energy efficient pump. I have a Tunze 1073.11 and @2900 g/h it uses half the watts. Other than that I can recommend this pump to anyone looking to buy it. ") External pumps last twice as long and do not transfer heat. You can place a valve on the output to reduce output. One more advantage, they are more reliable. Iwaki have been around for over 30 years. max head at 39' .

 

[JoshH]

Just to clarify, when we told him that the warranty was void was because he was trying to push water from one floor to the other. That part of the response was omitted from the post here on R2R. Our pumps are not pressure rated so you cannot use them on applications where you go from one floor to the other. We do not advertise nor ever stated that you could use them for that.

If you are looking for a pump to push water from one floor to the other, like it is the situation here, you need a "Pressure Rated" pump such as the Abyzz or Reeflo.

I felt I needed to make this clarification so that all the information is present and fellow forum members can make an educated decision.

Kind regards!

He actually never omitted that response. It's in the post I posted above. If your pumps are not pressure rated than why do you state maximum head heights in all your advertising as well beyond what pumping from one floor to the other would entail? I think if you do not believe your product can safely handle the head heights involved then you should not advertise that it can. Its wildly misleading and can lead those into a purchase thinking they are fine when in fact your misinformation has put them in a position where they have now voided the warranty on a $500 pump...

I would also like to know where in all the advertising it says you can not use these pumps to pump from one floor to another? What exactly does coralvue define as the safe head height limit for these pumps that will not void the warranty?

Edit: I did find the info on Coralvues page about this setup not being ideal for this situation but nothing on it voiding the warranty....

My question still stands as to why it's advertised these pumps can pump well beyond the head pressure involved in pumping from one floor to the other if it voids the warranty... Your flow charts should be capped at the appropriate head height you feel will not void the warranty....

Sorry @mikedb, I didn't mean to derail the thread....

 

[mikedb]

Just to clarify, when we told him that the warranty was void was because he was trying to push water from one floor to the other. That part of the response was omitted from the post here on R2R. Our pumps are not pressure rated so you cannot use them on applications where you go from one floor to the other. We do not advertise nor ever stated that you could use them for that.

We even include that on the product page on our website under the "More Details" tab.



If you are looking for a pump to push water from one floor to the other, like it is the situation here, you need a "Pressure Rated" pump such as the Abyzz or Reeflo.

I felt I needed to make this clarification so that all the information is present and fellow forum members can make an educated decision.

Kind regards!

Hi Carlos,

Thanks very much for your response and for your attention to this.

First of all, I should mention that I know a thing or two about pumps/hydraulics. I am a mechanical engineer with a specialization in fluid dynamics. I have specified and installed numerous pumps in industrial and commercial applications.

I take some exception to the suggestion that I was being deceitful in not mentioning the part of your response about pushing water from one floor to another. I did not post that here because it makes no technical sense.

It is absurd to specify that a pump is rated for a given head height, and then go on to state that the pump isn't suitable for use at that height. You don't need to be an engineer to know that. There is nothing that makes the head losses from pumping between floors any different than frictional or dimensional losses.

Your website and associated diagram specify a maximum head height. That is a pressure specification! To be exact, 18ft of head is equivalent to ~8psi for saltwater. So please stop with this nonsense about 'not being pressure rated'. You are stating a pressure specification- either stand behind it, or remove it from your marketing materials.

I also note with shock that you have voided my warranty on the basis that I did not follow a note on your website (visible nowhere on the distributor I purchased from, BulkReefSupply) that states the pump isn't 'ideal' for second floor applications. Really? Voiding my warranty for a 'non-ideal' use?! Come on.

So, Carlos, please be honest with your customers. Either shade out a big portion of the head loss diagram for these pumps and change the max head specification, or stand behind your products when they are used within the specifications you provide.

-Mike

 

[bjc451]

Well I had a vectra m1 that rusted out. They sent me a brand new m2. Customer service should count for something. I run all my pumps reeflink btw

 

[scardall]

He actually never omitted that response. It's in the post I posted above. If your pumps are not pressure rated than why do you state maximum head heights in all your advertising as well beyond what pumping from one floor to the other would entail? I think if you do not believe your product can safely handle the head heights involved then you should not advertise that it can. Its wildly misleading and can lead those into a purchase thinking they are fine when in fact your misinformation has put them in a position where they have now voided the warranty on a $500 pump...

I would also like to know where in all the advertising it says you can not use these pumps to pump from one floor to another? What exactly does coralvue define as the safe head height limit for these pumps that will not void the warranty?

Edit: I did find the info on Coralvues page about this setup not being ideal for this situation but nothing on it voiding the warranty....

My question still stands as to why it's advertised these pumps can pump well beyond the head pressure involved in pumping from one floor to the other if it voids the warranty... Your flow charts should be capped at the appropriate head height you feel will not void the warranty....

Sorry @mikedb, I didn't mean to derail the thread....

FYI when you mis-use a pump by plumbing it to the second floor and the pump is not pressure rated, that can void the warranty. IMO Coral-vue was correct. Sorry dude. You must use a pressure rated pump for your configuration. A FYI when they say max. head is X , The flow (GPH) is NOT at the max flow. ( that is a 0 ' head) The higher you go the flow decreases. less so for pressure rated pumps. Try this with a non-preesure rated pump and it WILL fail. Hope this helps yah. Good Luck

 

[JoshH]

You mis-used this pump when You plumbed it to the second floor. IMO Coral-vue was correct. Sorry dude. You must use a pressure rated pump for your configuration. A FYI when they say max. head is X , The floe (GPH) is NOT at the max flow. ( that is a 0 ' head) The higher you go the flow decreases. less so for pressure rated pumps. Try this with a non-preesure rated pump and it WILL fail. Hope this helps yah. Good Luck

Not sure why you are quoting me, certainly not my pump...

And according to there literature Coralvue only states these pumps are not ideal for use in "Pressure Rated" applications, nowhere does it state using the pump with x amount of head height will void the warranty.

Also I have no idea what you're talking about when you mention max head is x and the flow in GPH at the max height is not the max flow. No where has that ever been mentioned in this entire thread that anyone expects the max flow at the max head height? It's pretty obvious the higher the pump has to push the less flow you will get at the outlet.

 

[crawling junk]

You mis-used this pump when You plumbed it to the second floor. IMO Coral-vue was correct. Sorry dude. You must use a pressure rated pump for your configuration. A FYI when they say max. head is X , The floe (GPH) is NOT at the max flow. ( that is a 0 ' head) The higher you go the flow decreases. less so for pressure rated pumps. Try this with a non-preesure rated pump and it WILL fail. Hope this helps yah. Good Luck

how so 18feet is 18 feet no matter if its through floors or not what I he had a tall house with a tall stand and sump at the bottom and tank at second level eye view without any floors in between? they need to man up and warranty his stuff

 

[jda]

Get an AC pump. Most DC pumps are a joke for your application and the ones that do work use just as much power and are well more than $1000. If another one works, then it worked on accident instead of by design.

If you need internal, then look to one of the large Lagunas or other Askoll Block pumps. External then Iwaki, PanWorld or the like. They are not silent, but I cannot hear any of mine when not right next to the tank. These should last a decade, too.

 

[scardall]

Not sure why you are quoting me, certainly not my pump...

And according to there literature Coralvue only states these pumps are not ideal for use in "Pressure Rated" applications, nowhere does it state using the pump with x amount of head height will void the warranty.

Also I have no idea what you're talking about when you mention max head is x and the flow in GPH at the max height is not the max flow. No where has that ever been mentioned in this entire thread that anyone expects the max flow at the max head height? It's pretty obvious the higher the pump has to push the less flow you will get at the outlet.

no it did not say that. I was not quoting their exact words. They said if you use thier pump in a configuration it voids their warranty. I am not quoting verbatum, I am interpreting what you posted from them. I am saying the person misused this pump and coralvue, not me says the waranty is void. This is Just an opinoin. PS: I did not mean to infer it was your pump. I was responding to your post Josh. Now to rest . I was trying to pass some useful data on a pumps flow rate versus it's Max. Head/height. For more details on what I was trying to say, please research it for your own peace of mine, if you want. Take care and happy Reefing. Good Luck

 

[scardall]

how so 18feet is 18 feet no matter if its through floors or not what I he had a tall house with a tall stand and sump at the bottom and tank at second level eye view without any floors in between? they need to man up and warranty his stuff

just a friendly response. It is not distance from pump that the manufactures of pumps are saying when they refer to max height. Max height is how high above the pump that affects flow. In part it is gravity's pull with pipes size/internal friction on the water. I hope this helps . Take care Now.