Upgrading my Return Pump- Suggestions?

[mikedb]

My reef (Red Sea 650 Peninsula with sump located in basement) has been up and running smoothly for about 10 months now. For the most part, I have been very happy with the equipment I chose, with one exception: my Reef Octopus Varios 8 pumps.

While they work, I have been very disappointed by the noise they make. Despite being mounted with soft tubing, I can hear the pumps running all around the house, including the baby room two stories above. Not only are they somewhat loud, but both 'hiccup' every 10-20 seconds, making the noise even more noticable. Most guests don't notice until I point it out, but it is louder than any appliance in my house and I'm not happy. I have throttled the pumps back to around 80% to reduce noise, but that means the flow through the sump is less than I would prefer (~400gph for a 150g system).

Here are my requirements:

• Submersible, DC Pump
• 600 GPH @ 12-14' of head
• 0-10V control (or Apex compatibility)

As far as I can tell, I have the following options (in no particular order):

• Sicce Syncra SDC 9.0: Inexpensive, and rated for a much higher flow at the head pressures I am working with. Reputable brand. But no apex compatibility? Also, several negative reviews about the noise level.
• Abyzz A100: Not cheap! But seems to be high quality. Will be running at nearly 100% at my head pressures. Need a $200 interface cable for 0-10V control, which is very disappointing. I have also heard that there is a new version coming out and that the current offerings are at the end-of-life.
• Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon 3 100W HighPressure: Lower cost than Abyzz, but seemingly good quality. Will be running at nearly 100% at my head pressures. The literature for this product is terrible, but it seems that a $200 interface is also required for 0-10V control? Poor availability at major retailers.

Is there anything else I should be considering? It doesn't seem like I have any great options.

 

[mfinn]

My vote is for the Red Dragon.
@slief might be able to provide a list of vendors

 

[ksed]

1- Abyzz. 10 year warranty
2- Royal Exclusiv
3- Sicce

 

[Shinte122305]

me and all my friends have been using the Vectra pumps without an issue ever. And now they have the new improved version that have even better reviews. ive been using the first gen without issue. roughly 2 years now.

Search Results Template - Bulk Reef Supply

aquarium.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[Idoc]

I have a Varios6 .... i don't even hear a hum from it. There's gotta be something wrong with your Varios8.

 

[Fishurama]

I like the aquastation silent swirl, and to my surprise ive actually seen it mentioned a few times on here positively as well. Its a knock off Jebao/clone with a better controller. Id run the 12,000 liter(3100+gph) version so i don't have to run the pump 100 percent, more then likely elongating its life. Don't know if it will work with your apex though.
Its been on my tank for about a year or so and working like a champ, only the thin plastic covering on the screen is starting to crack finally since i have it mounted inside the stand instead of outside.

This is the 9000 model specs as the 12000 model seems to be sold out/not in stock.
aquastation amazon

Specifications：
Pump Power Supply: DC 24 V – 4A
Max. Flow Rate: 2377 GPH
Max. Head pressure: 16.5 ft.
Transformer: 110 V-240 V / 50-60 Hz
Max. Power Consumption: 60 Watts
Max. Work Temp: 95℉
Inlet Size:3/4" 1" 1 1/4"
Outlet Size: 3/4" 1" 1 1/4"
Pump Dimensions: 8.2" x 3.5" x 4.13"
Controller Dimensions: 2" x 4" xPump
DC-9000 Controller
DC 24V Power Supply

 

[ca1ore]

Trouble with any of the DC pumps except red dragon and abyzz is that they won’t get you 600 gph at 12’ of pressure. The two that will just seem crazy expensive to me. Perchance to consider an external pump. That expands your options considerably.

 

[mtraylor]

Vectra are dead silent. Realky like it. Not sure on the rating for gph. But a v2 should probably do trick.

But first call various suoport

 

[mikedb]

me and all my friends have been using the Vectra pumps without an issue ever. And now they have the new improved version that have even better reviews. ive been using the first gen without issue. roughly 2 years now.

Search Results Template - Bulk Reef Supply

aquarium.bulkreefsupply.com

The Vectra is tempting, because according to the specs in can almost meet my needs. However, it appears to have absolutely no Apex control.

The apex control isn't critical, but I so have some advanced programming for my feed mode:

• When feed mode is enabled, reduce speed to 30% (keeps flow through my manifold in the basement, and prevents water from being sucked into the sump via the return line
• When feed mode finishes, start pump at 60% and ramp to 80% (normal operating speed) over an hour. This helps prevent excessive flow through the emergency drain while the primary return siphon establishes.

Does the Vectra have these capabilities?

Is there anyone out there that has used the Vectra in a high-head configuration, and confirm that they are still silent?

I have a Varios6 .... i don't even hear a hum from it. There's gotta be something wrong with your Varios8.

I had assumed so, but I have two Varios 8's that do the same thing (I run them in a 'hot backup' configuration). I'm wondering if the noise only gets bad at high head pressures, which is why many users don't report any issues. Nonetheless, I have submitted a ticket to Coralvue Support and will report back with what they say.

Trouble with any of the DC pumps except red dragon and abyzz is that they won’t get you 600 gph at 12’ of pressure. The two that will just seem crazy expensive to me. Perchance to consider an external pump. That expands your options considerably.

Yeah, seems to be the case. To be honest, I could stomach the cost of those pumps, but the $200 charge for 0-10V control really turns me off.

The way my sump is configured, I don't really have any way to use an external pump. And I do depend on the variable speed capability of DC pumps, which I don't think is offered on any external pump models.

 

[mfinn]

The Vectra is tempting, because according to the specs in can almost meet my needs. However, it appears to have absolutely no Apex control.

The apex control isn't critical, but I so have some advanced programming for my feed mode:

• When feed mode is enabled, reduce speed to 30% (keeps flow through my manifold in the basement, and prevents water from being sucked into the sump via the return line
• When feed mode finishes, start pump at 60% and ramp to 80% (normal operating speed) over an hour. This helps prevent excessive flow through the emergency drain while the primary return siphon establishes.

Does the Vectra have these capabilities?

Is there anyone out there that has used the Vectra in a high-head configuration, and confirm that they are still silent?




Yeah, seems to be the case. To be honest, I could stomach the cost of those pumps, but the $200 charge for 0-10V control really turns me off.

The way my sump is configured, I don't really have any way to use an external pump. And I do depend on the variable speed capability of DC pumps, which I don't think is offered on any external pump models.

The Vectra does have a feed mode on it's controller.
Not sure if it does what you want.

As far as the high dollar pumps, once you are $1K+ into a pump, what's another $200 for a feature you want?

 

[ca1ore]

I'm actually a little surprised none of the U.S. companies have designed a DC pump to handle higher pressure - thus not paying the 'German premium'. There's nothing inherently limited by DC that volutes/impellers designed for pressure applications couldn't be offered. Perhaps the basement sump crowd just isn't a large enough addressable market.

You are correct that external AC pumps are not speed adjustable. You can throttle them back with a valve, which actually reduces energy consumption, but that's brute force and ignorance. IMO/E you'd be most disappointed in the Vectra at 12-14' head pressure. I tried it ..... major fail!

 

[mikedb]

Just heard back from Coralvue...

The VarioS-8 pumps are NOT pressure rated pumps so they will not work in your current plumbing set up, you cannot use the VarioS 8 pump to push water from one floor to another. Unfortunately, the way you are using them will also void the warranty. We do not advertise nor print that the pumps are pressure rated.

So, according to the manufacturer, Using a Varios pump as a return (or any application where you are pumping water to a different height) will void the warranty.

Of course, Reef Octopus does publish a head loss chart showing performance at various pressures, and also specifies a head height (a pressure specification). But apparently they have no interest in supporting their product when used according to their specs!

 

[JoshH]

Just heard back from Coralvue...



So, according to the manufacturer, Using a Varios pump as a return (or any application where you are pumping water to a different height) will void the warranty.

Of course, Reef Octopus does publish a head loss chart showing performance at various pressures, and also specifies a head height (a pressure specification). But apparently they have no interest in supporting their product when used according to their specs!

So by there logic any application of this pump voids the warranty? So in a sense there is 0 warranty on this pump? That's pretty brutal, how can they call it a return pump if using it as a return pump voids the warranty? Lol

Edit, your picture of there reply just showed up. Makes a little bit more sense now. But still if using it for an application between floors voids the warranty than why is that not stated anywhere and why post flow charts and max head heights that are well beyond the level that will void the warranty.

 

[mfinn]

That's kind of shocking

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

My reef (Red Sea 650 Peninsula with sump located in basement) has been up and running smoothly for about 10 months now. For the most part, I have been very happy with the equipment I chose, with one exception: my Reef Octopus Varios 8 pumps.

While they work, I have been very disappointed by the noise they make. Despite being mounted with soft tubing, I can hear the pumps running all around the house, including the baby room two stories above. Not only are they somewhat loud, but both 'hiccup' every 10-20 seconds, making the noise even more noticable. Most guests don't notice until I point it out, but it is louder than any appliance in my house and I'm not happy. I have throttled the pumps back to around 80% to reduce noise, but that means the flow through the sump is less than I would prefer (~400gph for a 150g system).

Here are my requirements:

• Submersible, DC Pump
• 600 GPH @ 12-14' of head
• 0-10V control (or Apex compatibility)

As far as I can tell, I have the following options (in no particular order):

• Sicce Syncra SDC 9.0: Inexpensive, and rated for a much higher flow at the head pressures I am working with. Reputable brand. But no apex compatibility? Also, several negative reviews about the noise level.
• Abyzz A100: Not cheap! But seems to be high quality. Will be running at nearly 100% at my head pressures. Need a $200 interface cable for 0-10V control, which is very disappointing. I have also heard that there is a new version coming out and that the current offerings are at the end-of-life.
• Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon 3 100W HighPressure: Lower cost than Abyzz, but seemingly good quality. Will be running at nearly 100% at my head pressures. The literature for this product is terrible, but it seems that a $200 interface is also required for 0-10V control? Poor availability at major retailers.

Is there anything else I should be considering? It doesn't seem like I have any great options.

You say "pumps" plural. How many are you using? Multiple to get the required GPH, or just for redundancy in case one fails?

 

[mikedb]

You say "pumps" plural. How many are you using? Multiple to get the required GPH, or just for redundancy in case one fails?

Redundancy. The second pump is plumbed (behind a check valve) and programmed to turn on if my flow sensor detects an issue.

The setup has already saved the tank once, when the power supply on my primary Varios failed while I was away for the weekend.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

Have you tried running them both at the same time at reduced power? Maybe a bad idea the way it is plumbed. I would be tempted to have two independent return lines, and run both pumps at a somewhat lower power setting, and that may be your quietest and cheapest option. If one fails, you still have the other one for redundancy although at a lower overall gph. I would imagine the lower power setting would increase the life of the pumps as well.

 

[mikedb]

Have you tried running them both at the same time at reduced power? Maybe a bad idea the way it is plumbed. I would be tempted to have two independent return lines, and run both pumps at a somewhat lower power setting, and that may be your quietest and cheapest option. If one fails, you still have the other one for redundancy although at a lower overall gph. I would imagine the lower power setting would increase the life of the pumps as well.

I actually had the same thought! Unfortunately, to get the same flow with two pumps working together requires about 65-70% power from both (instead of 80% on one), uses a lot more electricity.... and makes a lot more noise

I think the idea is a good one, but this far to the right of the head curve, running the second pump doesn't do much to help.

 

[oceanslide]

what about 2 cor 20's?

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I actually had the same thought! Unfortunately, to get the same flow with two pumps working together requires about 65-70% power from both (instead of 80% on one), uses a lot more electricity.... and makes a lot more noise

I think the idea is a good one, but this far to the right of the head curve, running the second pump doesn't do much to help.

It would be nice if you could put a "lifter" pump on top to help reduce the head pressure