Unlimited phosphate in my tank

[Lobophyton]

Hello, my tank is 7 months old, since the start the phosphate have always been 0.4, no matter how much water change i do, the phosphate stick to 0.4. I've tried Lanthanum chloride for a month, tested the water again and again, phosphate is still 0.4. I also tried different phosphate test, 0.4 forever.

I was thinking that maybe the rock was the cause of it, those rocks was out of a tank from lfs for 6 month, there was still green algae on them, they stayed years in the lfs tank. Maybe the cause is that rocks are full of phosphate ? i removed 2 ppm of phosphate in a month, maybe should i increase the Lanthanum Chloride dosage ? thx

 

[Lavey29]

My tank routinely gets to .4 phosphate and thrives. Do you see any serious decline in your tank? Consistent stability is better the ups and downs.

 

[Lobophyton]

My tank routinely gets to .4 phosphate and thrives. Do you see any serious decline in your tank? Consistent stability is better the ups and downs.

yes, algae problem and stunted growth on SPS :/ growth speed is really slow in that tank too

 

[Lavey29]

yes, algae problem and stunted growth on SPS :/ growth speed is really slow in that tank too

It's binding to your rocks and leaching out so water changes have no affect really on phosphate. Lanthium works, stop feeding pellet food and coral additives that raise phosphate like reef roids.

What is your nitrates level?

 

[Lobophyton]

It's binding to your rocks and leaching out so water changes have no affect really on phosphate. Lanthium works, stop feeding pellet food and coral additives that raise phosphate like reef roids.

What is your nitrates level?

Nitrate was undetectable until i added sodium nitrate, now it's around 2 ppm

 

[Lavey29]

Nitrate was undetectable until i added sodium nitrate, now it's around 2 ppm

That's part of your problem. You can't manage phosphate levels with no nitrates in the tank.

 

[Lobophyton]

That's part of your problem. You can't manage phosphate levels with no nitrates in the tank.

I had 10-15 ppm nitrate for a month, nothing changed, still 0.4 phosphate

 

[Lavey29]

I had 10-15 ppm nitrate for a month, nothing changed, still 0.4 phosphate

That's not even half the amount of nitrates needed with .4 phosphate. What is your lanthium dose? How do you dose it? What do you feed your tank.

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

As stated above, you're going to have PO4 bound to the rock/sand and it always seeks equilibrium with its environment. So the more you pull out of the water the more it will unbind with the rock to stay in equilibrium.

Suggestions:

• Check your water source for PO4
  • Does your RODI have high PO4?
  • If your doing water changes with water that has PO4 in in then you're not going to get anywhere
• Use a long term product that binds the PO4
  • GFO
    • check PO4 levels to make sure they decrease, then when they start to increase again change out the GFO
  • Seachem's PhosGuard and PhosBind
    • These may work faster but watch for any stress signs in corals
    • They work a little faster because of the Alumina Oxide but will also deplete and need to be changed faster
• Verify your test kit is in date and accurate

 

[Dburr1014]

That's not even half the amount of nitrates needed with .4 phosphate.

Hold up. Are you saying for him to raise nitrates up to... What?
Having 20,30,40 nitrates is not going to magically disappear phosphates.

Just want to make that clear.

OP,
Having some nitrate will help users lower phosphates, AND, as long as your dosing, they don't need to be raised more than the daily 1 or 2 PPM you are currently showing.
Elevated nitrates is not going to make the phosphates drop any lower or faster.

 

[Lavey29]

Hold up. Are you saying for him to raise nitrates up to... What?
Having 20,30,40 nitrates is not going to magically disappear phosphates.

Just want to make that clear.

OP,
Having some nitrate will help users lower phosphates, AND, as long as your dosing, they don't need to be raised more than the daily 1 or 2 PPM you are currently showing.
Elevated nitrates is not going to make the phosphates drop any lower or faster.

Yea his current level is 2 nitrates. Increasing nitrates will promote more bacteria activity and coral consumption thus helping manage phosphate levels better.

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[Lobophyton]

That's not even half the amount of nitrates needed with .4 phosphate. What is your lanthium dose? How do you dose it? What do you feed your tank.

I use Colombo lanthium, 1 ml per 50liters = 0.1 mg po4 removed. So i target 0.5 ppm a week, i dose with my ATO, i know the exact amount of water the ATO put back in the tank.

I used to feed frozen (only two clown in that tank) i started flakes a week ago

As stated above, you're going to have PO4 bound to the rock/sand and it always seeks equilibrium with its environment. So the more you pull out of the water the more it will unbind with the rock to stay in equilibrium.

Suggestions:

• Check your water source for PO4
  • Does your RODI have high PO4?

RODI , 0 PO4 in it, not detectable at least

• • If your doing water changes with water that has PO4 in in then you're not going to get anywhere
• Use a long term product that binds the PO4
  • GFO
    • check PO4 levels to make sure they decrease, then when they start to increase again change out the GFO

Is GFO better than lanthum in my case ? i have GFO, never used it

• Seachem's PhosGuard and PhosBind
  • These may work faster but watch for any stress signs in corals
  • They work a little faster because of the Alumina Oxide but will also deplete and need to be changed faster
• Verify your test kit is in date and accurate

Tests are valid, bought another batch, same result

OP,
Having some nitrate will help users lower phosphates, AND, as long as your dosing, they don't need to be raised more than the daily 1 or 2 PPM you are currently showing.
Elevated nitrates is not going to make the phosphates drop any lower or faster.

Can tell that raising nitrate does nothing in my tank regarding PO4, Still wondering why it goes exactly to 0.4 and not more ?

 

[twentyleagues]

I use Colombo lanthium, 1 ml per 50liters = 0.1 mg po4 removed. So i target 0.5 ppm a week, i dose with my ATO, i know the exact amount of water the ATO put back in the tank.

I used to feed frozen (only two clown in that tank) i started flakes a week ago

RODI , 0 PO4 in it, not detectable at least

Is GFO better than lanthum in my case ? i have GFO, never used it

Tests are valid, bought another batch, same result

Can tell that raising nitrate does nothing in my tank regarding PO4, Still wondering why it goes exactly to 0.4 and not more ?

the rock and water are equalizing. More is probably bound in the rock but "the water may only be able to pull" .4 out of it at any time. I am unsure why its always 0.4. Keep removing from the water eventually the rock will lower its po4 levels and levels should fall as long as what you add is less then what is transitioning. GFO will pull po4 out of the water at what rate I dont know and at what testing time you may see this decrease but I believe it starts immediately.

 

[Lobophyton]

the rock and water are equalizing. More is probably bound in the rock but "the water may only be able to pull" .4 out of it at any time. I am unsure why its always 0.4. Keep removing from the water eventually the rock will lower its po4 levels and levels should fall as long as what you add is less then what is transitioning. GFO will pull po4 out of the water at what rate I dont know and at what testing time you may see this decrease but I believe it starts immediately.

Thx, LC also kind of remove it from the water too right ?

 

[twentyleagues]

Thx, LC also kind of remove it from the water too right ?

As far as I know yes. I have never used it. I have used gfo and it does work.

Years ago my reef ran at around 2.0 po4, yes the decimal is in the right spot. My reef didnt seem to care and I had enough herbivores that no algae was causing issues. Did some corals not do well or fail yes but dont some just do that sometimes? I had a 125 sps dom and a 120 lps zoa dom and a 90 nps ( probably why my nutrients were so high). When unls became a thing I worked really hard to get nutrient levels down over about a 2 year period, carbon dosing and gfo were the go to. Carbon dosing did a lot of the heavy lifting but still had high po4 GFO was employed and too much at first took my levels down really quick like a week and they were cut in half, not good corals almost tanked. Luckily I cut the gfo before too much damage was done and started using it more controlled changing it weekly. Got down to .08-.12 and 10 nitrate (something about a ratio here....lol). Actually lost a lot of zoas and lps looked sad at those levels. Sps looked better then ever. Realized while sticks are nice I'm not a stick guy went back to more reasonable levels (in my mind) and sticks and everything seemed fine and much easier then running uln.

Not that you needed or even wanted that story just giving you my experience.

 

[rhitee93]

I don't have the reefing experience to help you unstick your phosphates. However, my test engineering background has me concerned about your test results.

If your test always comes back at exactly 0.4, I would recommend you do the following as a quick check:

1- Pull a sample of water out of the aquarium that is large enough to do two tests.
2- Run a phosphate test on one part of that sample, you should see 0.4ppm as the result.
3- Dilute the remaining sample 1:1 with fresh saltwater.
4- Run another phosphate test on the diluted sample. If the result isn't 0.2ppm, something else is going on.

 

[I never finish anythi]

You mention you dose LC with your ato . Can this be done . I dose straight in to my skimmer or roller filter and get very good results. I've never heard of it being dosed with ato . Might be wrong tho

 

[Lobophyton]

Okay, GFO is kicking in, phosĥate is now 0.1, does that mean rock are phosphate free now or just that gfo is currently strong enough to handle the phosphate from the rocks ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Okay, GFO is kicking in, phosĥate is now 0.06, does that mean rock are phosphate free now or just that gfo is currently strong enough to handle the phosphate from the rocks ?

No matter what the phosphate level is, there will be some bound to rock and sand, and that amount increases as the amount in the water increases.

Also, some is only in very slow equilibrium with the water (say, deeper in pores or below the sand surface) so it may take time to fully equilibrate.

Eventually, if the amount in the water is unchanged, there will not be any net gain or loss of phosphate to the surfaces, but there will still be some there,