Unfortunate News & Advice Needed

[harpham]

So I’m currently away with work for the first time since setting up the tank (first time in ages!)

Last week, we added a Cardinal into the tank, alongside my pair of clowns. It was clearly very nervous, as it stayed in the back corner the majority of the time, but I thought that it would eventually become a bit more confident. Every so often it would venture out the corner...

Unfortunately yesterday, my other half found it floating at the top, however still alive (just). She phoned the shop we bought it from who advised to take it back, as it sounded like the clowns had stressed it out. It unfortunately didn’t make the journey back - I’m actually gutted about it all, especially as there was nothing I could do to help! It was fine on Sunday; ate and wasn’t really showing signs of stress.

To rule out water parameters, the shop offered to test our water, which they have done today - All was fine thankfully and they confirmed that it couldn’t have been water quality!! So they think it was down to the clowns being aggressive (albeit I hadn’t observed anything I felt was aggression).

I’m gutted that we weren’t able to save the cardinal and that it’s clearly been very unhappy! I don’t like the thought that a living thing has suffered on my watch!!

I guess my question is to ask what our options are for other fish to add to the tank?
I was planning to get a Royal Gramma and that would have been it. However it would be good to hear any other thoughts or advice; or even stories of similar experiences?
Either way, I’m going to give it some time before I do add anything else in; however just wanted to research my options.

I have a Red Sea Max Nano G2 Cube (20 gallon tank), so I was only planning to have 4 small fish, some CUC and then coral.
I currently just have the clownfish pair and a turbo snail.

Any advice or support would be greatly appreciated.

 

[JTP424]

The cardinals I've dealt with have all been quite docile, and typically get picked on if they don't have their own area, hard in a smaller tank.
I do have a royal Gramma with my two clowns, but the Royal Gramma went in first and claimed its territory.
Even though it's a small tank, if you have some caves etc for everyone to have their own space, you might be ok. I would be hesitant though in case the clowns have taken over the tank for their own "territory"
What other fish do you have in there, you note 4?

 

[harpham]

The cardinals I've dealt with have all been quite docile, and typically get picked on if they don't have their own area, hard in a smaller tank.
I do have a royal Gramma with my two clowns, but the Royal Gramma went in first and claimed its territory.
Even though it's a small tank, if you have some caves etc for everyone to have their own space, you might be ok. I would be hesitant though in case the clowns have taken over the tank for their own "territory"
What other fish do you have in there, you note 4?

Thanks for the reply.

I only have the 2 clowns in at the moment, which have been in a few weeks.

My aim was to get 4 in total, as think that will be the limit based on the size of tank.

 

[polyppal]

I’d add something tough that will hold its own like a Damsel

A Gamma would probably hold its own too

 

[harpham]

I’d add something tough that will hold its own like a Damsel

I do like Damsels, however heard that they can be very aggressive? I had been advised against them because of this. They do look lovely though, so if they have a chance I’d definitely consider.

This is my first tank, so I was trying to go with options that would be easy for me to manage

My initial idea was clown pair, cardinal and royal gramma.

 

[14 foot reef]

I’d add something tough that will hold its own like a Damsel

A Gamma would probably hold its own too

I don't think adding a fish as territorial as a damsel fish is the best thing to do here.

Royal Gramma will hold it's own, and maybe a dwarf angel.

Maybe add the 2 at once if the system can handle it. We don't have a lot of info on the system though, so tough call.

Try not to add new animals before being a way in the future.

Patience is your best friend in this hobby.

Good luck, this forum will give you great help and advise.

 

[blecki]

IME most fish just ignore cardinals. You really have to get a camera so you can look when the fish aren't busy hiding from you.

But also IME cardinals are incredibly delicate and die if you look at them sideways.

Honestly 2 clowns sounds about right for 20 gallons. Anything else you add will need to be small and mean to tangle with the clowns. I wouldn't do a damsel - they will fight (clowns are damsels), but I've had success with a dottyback and a six line in a 25 gallon lagoon with 2 clowns. The key here being mature, mean clowns and small, mean fish: aggression stalemate.

 

[harpham]

I don't think adding a fish as territorial as a damsel fish is the best thing to do here.

Royal Gramma will hold it's own, and maybe a dwarf angel.

Maybe add the 2 at once if the system can handle it. We don't have a lot of info on the system though, so tough call.

Thanks for the info too!

I have a Red Sea Max Nano G2 cube, so 20 gallon tank. I’ve added a photo of the setup (albeit from a couple weeks or so ago)

 

[blecki]

Oh those guys are tiny. I don't think they killed the cardinal.

Tank is too small for a dwarf angel. Maybe try something that isn't going to bother the clowns like a blenny?

 

[harpham]

Oh those guys are tiny. I don't think they killed the cardinal.

Tank is too small for a dwarf angel. Maybe try something that isn't going to bother the clowns like a blenny?

Yeah they’re only babies themselves! I personally hadn’t seen them be aggressive at all towards the cardinal… When I first added it last week, they seemed more scared than anything. However, we obviously can’t watch it constantly (as much as I’d enjoy to!).

I’ll check out a blenny.

I’m going to give it a couple weeks or so before I add anything else either way.

I just don’t want to be in the same position where something suffers!

 

[14 foot reef]

Yeah, tank to small for a dwarf angel, maybe a pigmy angel.
Blenny is a great choice

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Tank is perfect for the clowns. Look at a goby or blenny if you want a 3rd fish. (Or 2 SMALL varieties if you need 4 fish).

Also, Cardinals are nocturnal in nature so it's important, especially at first, to feed a little around "dusk time" in the tank.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I just don’t want to be in the same position where something suffers!

Sounds like your heart and head are in the right place. Things happen though, so don't automatically beat yourself up over something that dies a few days in... it may have been doomed from the start.

 

[harpham]

Sounds like your heart and head are in the right place. Things happen though, so don't automatically beat yourself up over something that dies a few days in... it may have been doomed from the start.

I’ve found it genuinely upsetting that something has died because of the environment we’ve put it in… Even worse that it’s been during the first time I’ve had to work away in bloody ages, so the other half has had to deal with it all!

 

[harpham]

Tank is perfect for the clowns. Look at a goby or blenny if you want a 3rd fish. (Or 2 SMALL varieties if you need 4 fish).

Also, Cardinals are nocturnal in nature so it's important, especially at first, to feed a little around "dusk time" in the tank.

I originally had a Goby on the list of maybes.

I wasn’t aware of cardinal feeding like that, however it was eating with us… Either way, I’m not even going to consider another, even though they’re lovely fish!

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I originally had a Goby on the list of maybes.

I wasn’t aware of cardinal feeding like that, however it was eating with us… Either way, I’m not even going to consider another, even though they’re lovely fish!

It can depend on the fish and not all need "special " feedings; but if you have a timid fish that normally sleeps during the day (in nature) and you only feed in the morning, there's a chance it will have a problem until it gets used to your schedule . It also depends on how aggressively the other fish eat.

 

[SliceGolfer]

Tossing out another perspective - I see the gyre pump in the corner. Is it possible the flow is too strong and that stressed your Cardinal?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Tossing out another perspective - I see the gyre pump in the corner. Is it possible the flow is too strong and that stressed your Cardinal?

Good catch! A gyre in a 20 gallon does seem a bit much

 

[harpham]

Tossing out another perspective - I see the gyre pump in the corner. Is it possible the flow is too strong and that stressed your Cardinal?

That’s a possibility. I actually had it set to 10% power & periods where it was off, to see if that encouraged it to explore more. But I did wonder that…

 

[Gumbies R Us]

That’s a possibility. I actually had it set to 10% power & periods where it was off, to see if that encouraged it to explore more. But I did wonder that…

When you get back, I would get a video of the flow in your tank just to see how powerful it is. I’ll second what others have said. A blenny or a goby could make great additions to your tank.