ultra low phosphate and low nitrate levels,

[FishPersonFL]

Hi
What do you do if your levels are just too low? I just tested at 0 ppBillion on Hanna checker for total phosphorous. I have it low as 3, but never 0 like just now. And my nitrates are at most 2 ppm. My acro frags recently all died (after doing pretty well at first when the levels were very low but not this low). To compensate I does Acropower heavier than instructions say a few times a week and RedSea AB 1-2 times a week. That worked in my previous set up (which was moved into this one). But this time they died anyhow.
My tank is 65 gals. I keep alk medium , b/c from my experience alk higher than 8 with very low nutrients - AND no acropower - caused my previous acros to die.

I just have a torch that is doing ok, but has been open more, and same with my hammer. Elegance is looking good. But also has been open even more before this new low.

Since my acros sill just all died should I dose even more acropower? Im at 25 ML 3x a week.
I dont want to dose PO4, I'm a little nervous about that. I do feed fish 2 x a day also. I'd skim less, but I even now see protein film on part of water surface.

TIA!

 

[blecki]

If you're feeding enough and it's reading 0 it doesn't mean there's none available, it just means it's all getting used up. If your fish are pooping there's phosphate in the tank.

The difference between those two tanks might have been the age, the amount of micro fauna, and the bacteria volume/kinds. Good write up for it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/phosphate-vs-acropora.993907/

There are papers and studies that show that coral (they mean true coral - stonies) prefer metaphosphate and organically bound phosphorous. There are studies about anemones also that say the same thing. None of them say that the corals cannot use phosphate, just that it is not preferred. Your fish produce all different kinds of phosphorous waste in different forms.

 

[FishPersonFL]

If you're feeding enough and it's reading 0 it doesn't mean there's none available, it just means it's all getting used up. If your fish are pooping there's phosphate in the tank.

The difference between those two tanks might have been the age, the amount of micro fauna, and the bacteria volume/kinds. Good write up for it: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/phosphate-vs-acropora.993907/

That does help, and it makes sense there is phoshate in the tank, it's taken up as quickly it's avail. But that also means there isn't enough left over after it's absorbed to even be detected. As soon as it's avail from poop or food it's soaked up for those brief moments there is any at all to take in.
My old tank was moved into my new tank. Same rock, but less of it b/c this tank is 1/2 the size. That previous tank did have small amount of sand (1/4 inch max) this tank doesnt have. So it's not biologically new but it's also not very aged.. It was actually set up a little over a year ago. I'd say it's 3 years old in reef tank years lol.
And it is showing the same low nutrients its 'parent' had.
Also the test is for phosphorous so It is testing for phosphorous as part of organic phosphates also.
For now i'll see waht more acropower does.. as it definitely made a difference when my levels werent this low. So it makes sense to at least try even higher dose, or daily not every other day, though I havfe no acros right now to use it on, the LPS do fine enough without it. I will get a frag from LFS this weekend to test it on.

 

[FishPersonFL]

That does help, and it makes sense there is phoshate in the tank, it's taken up as quickly it's avail. But that also means there isn't enough left over after it's absorbed to even be detected. As soon as it's avail from poop or food it's soaked up for those brief moments there is any at all to take in. So the phoshorous abosorbers only can get it for brief times in my tank.
My old tank was moved into my new tank. Same rock, but less of it b/c this tank is 1/2 the size. That previous tank did have small amount of sand (1/4 inch max) this tank doesnt have. So it's not biologically new but it's also not very aged.. It was actually set up a little over a year ago. I'd say it's 3 years old in reef tank years lol.
And it is showing the same low nutrients its 'parent' had.
Also the test is for phosphorous so It is testing for phosphorous as part of organic phosphates also.
For now i'll see waht more acropower does.. as it definitely made a difference when my levels werent this low. So it makes sense to at least try even higher dose, or daily not every other day, though I havfe no acros right now to use it on, the LPS do fine enough without it. I will get a frag from LFS this weekend to test it on.

 

[ReefStable]

My advice for raising nutrients is just to feed more.

That said, I don't think that's the reason for the acro losses. I would look to temperature, salinity, pH, and Alkalinity as the most likely cause.

 

[taricha]

If you were at near-zero PO4 and add a bunch of acropower, that's amino acids providing N and only going to push PO4 lower. So if there actually was PO4-limitation stress, adding more N sources would only increase that.

 

[FishPersonFL]

If you were at near-zero PO4 and add a bunch of acropower, that's amino acids providing N and only going to push PO4 lower. So if there actually was PO4-limitation stress, adding more N sources would only increase that.

My advice for raising nutrients is just to feed more.

That said, I don't think that's the reason for the acro losses. I would look to temperature, salinity, pH, and Alkalinity as the most likely cause.

THose both make sense. But I know what happened in past with the veyr low P and N and then the only difference was adding acropower. All of a sudden I went from killing acros to could keep any sps, and they grew really well.
I'll feed more, but I feed pretty well now. Or remove some of the chaeto, but it is not growing fast at all, last time I pruned it was a few months ago, it's in a part of my 'fuge. A combo of changes might be best.

*I guess I'd need someone with the same levels of me having success with all SPS? And what are you doing?
Thanks everyone

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Feeding more or dosing (nitrate, ammonia, and/or phosphate) are fine options. Using other sources of N are also OK. Dosing inorganics is typically cheaper than feeding more and allows more control.

Unless you are sure the organisms are getting enough N and P from other sources, I'd suggest maintaining at least 2 ppm nitrate and 0.02 ppm phosphate to be sure they are available enough.

 

[FishPersonFL]

Feeding more or dosing (nitrate, ammonia, and/or phosphate) are fine options. Using other sources of N are also OK. Dosing inorganics is typically cheaper than feeding more and allows more control.

Unless you are sure the organisms are getting enough N and P from other sources, I'd suggest maintaining at least 2 ppm nitrate and 0.02 ppm phosphate to be sure they are available enough.

Thank you replying :-D. . I"m thinking that dosing phosphate is tricky as to not overshoot? I know there's a new Trident that might be able to help with that. I just watched the BRS vid on it and in the near future the NP trident can be used to control dosing . Though $$ of course .

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thank you replying :-D. . I"m thinking that dosing phosphate is tricky as to not overshoot? I know there's a new Trident that might be able to help with that. I just watched the BRS vid on it and in the near future the NP trident can be used to control dosing . Though $$ of course .

That’s not typically a valid concern. More often, folks get frustrated at how much more than expected it takes to raise phosphate due to binding to rock and sand.