Torches and UV

[Reefing102]

Hey all,

So one of my wife’s favorite corals is torches. I have never been able to successfully keep them. They last a few months then BJD hits. So I got to thinking based on a thread on another forum, for those of you that successfully keep torches (any of them, no specific kind in mind) do you also run a UV sterilizer?

From what I’m reading, it seems BJD has many types of ciliates and many ciliates appear to be free swimming while some attach. I’m curious if all are free swimming and then attach when a stressor (be it known or unknown) is induced on the coral making it detect or think the coral is unhealthy. If most are free-swimming, shouldn’t UV take care of the problem? I’m just speaking from inexperience so I’m curious to know others experiences and if you use UV and have successfully kept torches.

I should also add that “successful” is a vague term so I’ll add a poll to provide for a range of experiences. For me successful means kept for more than a year and is fraggable or has been fragged but UMMV.

 

[blaxsun]

I run a UV but also haven't had success keeping any euphyllia for more than a year (BJD ultimately sets in).

 

[DenverSaltyFarmer]

Sometimes tanks can have different bacteria that hurt torches. Chemiclean For cyano is used pretty often with big torch collectors. I use it on my tank every 6 months with great success keeping my torches happy

 

[ccole]

I have mixed success with torches. I have a couple that are fairly long lived (around 3 years for my oldest colony) and a number of other older colonies of euphyllia. I also ran UV for the first two and a half years, though it’s been off for about 6 months now.

I lost a number of torches early and I’ve recently started collecting them again now that I feel my tank is more stable. I find them especially prone to injury. Falls from rocks, irritation from the sand bed, and even stings/irritation from other torches seem to cause a lot of localized infections and eventual loss. Gluing them down and moving them if they seem irritated by their neighbors has increased my success with them so far.

In addition, locality seems important too. Indos seem to do better than aussies. Newly imported colonies seem to struggle.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Hey all,

So one of my wife’s favorite corals is torches. I have never been able to successfully keep them. They last a few months then BJD hits. So I got to thinking based on a thread on another forum, for those of you that successfully keep torches (any of them, no specific kind in mind) do you also run a UV sterilizer?

From what I’m reading, it seems BJD has many types of ciliates and many ciliates appear to be free swimming while some attach. I’m curious if all are free swimming and then attach when a stressor (be it known or unknown) is induced on the coral making it detect or think the coral is unhealthy. If most are free-swimming, shouldn’t UV take care of the problem? I’m just speaking from inexperience so I’m curious to know others experiences and if you use UV and have successfully kept torches.

I should also add that “successful” is a vague term so I’ll add a poll to provide for a range of experiences. For me successful means kept for more than a year and is fraggable or has been fragged but UMMV.

It's an interesting idea, however I think that even if UV is having a beneficial effect, it would depend to a great extent on flow rate and exposure to the UV.

I don't think UV or no UV will nail it down.

 

[i cant think]

Hey all,

So one of my wife’s favorite corals is torches. I have never been able to successfully keep them. They last a few months then BJD hits. So I got to thinking based on a thread on another forum, for those of you that successfully keep torches (any of them, no specific kind in mind) do you also run a UV sterilizer?

From what I’m reading, it seems BJD has many types of ciliates and many ciliates appear to be free swimming while some attach. I’m curious if all are free swimming and then attach when a stressor (be it known or unknown) is induced on the coral making it detect or think the coral is unhealthy. If most are free-swimming, shouldn’t UV take care of the problem? I’m just speaking from inexperience so I’m curious to know others experiences and if you use UV and have successfully kept torches.

I should also add that “successful” is a vague term so I’ll add a poll to provide for a range of experiences. For me successful means kept for more than a year and is fraggable or has been fragged but UMMV.

I’ve only got 2 torches in my tank however 1 has been with me since day one. The other has been with me for only a few days but is already splitting.
My first one hasn’t split at all and has been in the one head gang for a while now as it had Flatworms a few months into the tank.
My newer one was picked up on Sunday and he’s already splitting into 2 heads.

Yes I do run UV now however in the first couple of months of keeping my tank I didn’t run it. So I wouldn’t say UV plays a huge part but it does play some part in keeping the tank alive.

 

[blaxsun]

The last torch I lost got inundated with sand from a determined damsel. I think this led to BJD on both torches; I dipped both (one recovered - the other was too far gone).

I like mushrooms.

 

[ccole]

The last torch I lost got inundated with sand from a determined damsel. I think this led to BJD on both torches; I dipped both (one recovered - the other was too far gone).

I like mushrooms.

I’ve had similar experiences with sand. I used to be really lazy about glueing stuff down and kept a lot of things in the sand bed. A snail would come by, knock them over, and they would seem to develop an infection not too long later.

 

[blaxsun]

I’ve had similar experiences with sand. I used to be really lazy about glueing stuff down and kept a lot of things in the sand bed. A snail would come by, knock them over, and they would seem to develop an infection not too long later.

The corals were up about 4" above the sand bed. As I said, this fish was *really* determined...

 

[Reefing102]

Thanks for the replies so far. It seems if anything, UV may be antecdotal to success, if anything.

I hadn’t heard of the chemiclean dosing thing

 

[DenverSaltyFarmer]

lastly how high are you keeping magnesium? they like high magnesium around 1500

 

[Reefing102]

I’ve been running MG around 1350

 

[MartinM]

The only LPS I keep is goniopora, and I have many, and they grow like weeds, some have gone from frags to the size of a volleyball in about 2.5 years...BUT if there is a fluctuation in alkalinity or magnesium, especially an increase, they will virtually immediately get BJD and require immediate iodine dips and/or antibiotic treatment to save them. I propose that torches are the same. Are you keeping alk and magnesium *super stable*? BJD is definitely not a death sentence, but it immediately requires pulling out the coral for an iodine dip/tissue cleansing + Ciprofloxacin or amoxicillin treatment, and possibly a low dose treatment of the entire tank as per the protocol developed by @AquaBiomics - and note that the infected tissue will be lost, but the entire colony doesn't have to be. I've saved the vast majority of goniopora that have developed BJD or the similar illness they're prone to (tissue bubbling). Hope this helps!

Edit: I've had a few dosing mishaps and boneheaded mistakes that have led to an alk increase or decrease by about 1 DKH and a proportional MG swing as well (I use AFR). This has always resulted in needing to treat at least one goniopora for a tissue infection

 

[gbroadbridge]

lastly how high are you keeping magnesium? they like high magnesium around 1500

What makes you believe that?

They don't natively live in parts of the ocean where Magnesium is that high and my tank runs at 1250-1300.

 

[DenverSaltyFarmer]

What makes you believe that?

They don't natively live in parts of the ocean where Magnesium is that high and my tank runs at 1250-1300.

well both personal experience, a lot of research, and talking with friends that own coral farms. there is also a lot of videos and write ups on the subject.
this might help you

1250 is very low for LPS....

 

[i cant think]

well both personal experience, a lot of research, and talking with friends that own coral farms. there is also a lot of videos and write ups on the subject.
this might help you

1250 is very low for LPS....

I will say, I know someone with a coral farm attached to an LFS and even they don’t run the Mg that high. It’s generally tan around 1350-1400 instead of 1500.

1250 isn’t low for LPS and is more around the normal range, look at natural parameters around where you find LPS and they are highly likely not to be around 1500. It’s more likely you’ll find LPS sat in 1250-1300ppm in the wild and nowhere near 1500.

 

[DenverSaltyFarmer]

I will say, I know someone with a coral farm attached to an LFS and even they don’t run the Mg that high. It’s generally tan around 1350-1400 instead of 1500.

1250 isn’t low for LPS and is more around the normal range, look at natural parameters around where you find LPS and they are highly likely not to be around 1500. It’s more likely you’ll find LPS sat in 1250-1300ppm in the wild and nowhere near 1500.

I feel like there is many products we put in our tanks that don't mimic the ocean environment, but instead enhance growth, health, and color from what it would be in the ocean. Think of it like growing plants. In the wild you can get standard results, but grow in hydroponics and enhance what the plant wants and can use and you get a faster growth, higher yield, and better product from what can happen in nature.

When I suggest something like raise your mag to 1500 I say so because it has helped my torches and hammers a lot and I'm happy to share my success with others. Like I said before there is many articles on the subject as well as just read the comments on that video of how much happier others tanks are doing.

Reefing is a constantly evolving hobby and I for one love to try new things to see the outcome. Recently added an ozone machine to my tank and love it, waiting to see the long term. ozone injection does not happen in the ocean other than the few lightning strikes. I guess I'm a different type of reefer than you is all I can say.

 

[i cant think]

I feel like there is many products we put in our tanks that don't mimic the ocean environment, but instead enhance growth, health, and color from what it would be in the ocean. Think of it like growing plants. In the wild you can get standard results, but grow in hydroponics and enhance what the plant wants and can use and you get a faster growth, higher yield, and better product from what can happen in nature.

When I suggest something like raise your mag to 1500 I say so because it has helped my torches and hammers a lot and I'm happy to share my success with others. Like I said before there is many articles on the subject as well as just read the comments on that video of how much happier others tanks are doing.

Reefing is a constantly evolving hobby and I for one love to try new things to see the outcome. Recently added an ozone machine to my tank and love it, waiting to see the long term. ozone injection does not happen in the ocean other than the few lightning strikes. I guess I'm a different type of reefer than you is all I can say.

I will say, I’ve had worse luck with Mg at 1500 than I have with it at 1400.
Here’s just a couple of my LPS in 1350-1450ppm Mg. That Torch is only a week in my tank and already split into 2 heads. My Hammer has been at the same (both my tanks sit at the 1350-1450ppm range) and has split faster and went from 2 heads to 13 in a year. The Duncan was brought at around 10 heads, in 3 years it’s now sat at Atleast 25.

I would love to see your success though, I’m not completely against your way of reefing its just we reef in different ways and both have success

 

[shcrimps]

Hey all,

So one of my wife’s favorite corals is torches. I have never been able to successfully keep them. They last a few months then BJD hits. So I got to thinking based on a thread on another forum, for those of you that successfully keep torches (any of them, no specific kind in mind) do you also run a UV sterilizer?

From what I’m reading, it seems BJD has many types of ciliates and many ciliates appear to be free swimming while some attach. I’m curious if all are free swimming and then attach when a stressor (be it known or unknown) is induced on the coral making it detect or think the coral is unhealthy. If most are free-swimming, shouldn’t UV take care of the problem? I’m just speaking from inexperience so I’m curious to know others experiences and if you use UV and have successfully kept torches.

I should also add that “successful” is a vague term so I’ll add a poll to provide for a range of experiences. For me successful means kept for more than a year and is fraggable or has been fragged but UMMV.

i have two torches right now (cheap ones)
one of them i’ve had for about a year which is the longest for me so far, up until 2-3 months ago
the tank/s it had been in all did not have sterilizers and were super low tech
second one i’ve had since i started this new tank
got uv sterilizer a month ago and they look better (granted they haven’t popped any new heads)
maybe looking better could be part of them settling in more and getting comfy
but some frogspawn i’ve had issues with has started looking better since adding the sterilizer as well?

 

[DenverSaltyFarmer]

I will say, I’ve had worse luck with Mg at 1500 than I have with it at 1400.
Here’s just a couple of my LPS in 1350-1450ppm Mg. That Torch is only a week in my tank and already split into 2 heads. My Hammer has been at the same (both my tanks sit at the 1350-1450ppm range) and has split faster and went from 2 heads to 13 in a year. The Duncan was brought at around 10 heads, in 3 years it’s now sat at Atleast 25.
View attachment 3119789
View attachment 3119790

I would love to see your success though, I’m not completely against your way of reefing its just we reef in different ways and both have success

here is my wild Holly grail. I never got a before picture, but this torch, my dragon soul, and Rasta torch were not as full or fat and the flesh bands were when I had low mag. The only thing I changes was mag and it was a complete turn around.

below photo is a tank that is my inspiration who runs it high as well (not my tank or photo)