To rip clean or not, that is the question

yanni · Jul 10, 2022

Hey all!

Upon starting my Waterbox 20 journey into reefkeeping, I purchased these turbo snails at my LFS. They were coloured brown, and inexperience made me not question it. I didn't know about peroxiding snail shells, and added them. Turns out they were covered in lobophora algae.

After about 7 months, this algae is taking hold. Big, ugly brown splotches growing on rocks, and even after peroxiding my snails, it keeps coming back. I've even drained the tank and peroxide scrubbed the rocks, and it keeps returning. I have limited natural options, tried a few urchins and none touched the stuff. At wits end with dealing with it. I'm also staring down the eyes of turf algae, which even with controlled nutrients of 10nitrate and 0.03phos I'm having no luck with it.

I'm at loss of what to do next. I love this hobby, but don't have the time or money to continue exploring different options. Should I rip clean, home my livestock with a friend for a while, then readd when I cycle the new clean tank?

At least that would give me time to clean everything, rescape the tank, and do it properly with the experience I have now.

yanni · Jul 10, 2022

Some comparison photos of the growth of the algae

Dburr1014 · Jul 10, 2022

@brandon429
This is the guy that will guide you in a rip clean.

Paul B · Jul 10, 2022

Leave the thing alone. Perfectly normal and natural. A ripped clean tank is not natural and will give you nothing but problems. You are trying to cultivate bacteria, not kill it.

yanni · Jul 10, 2022

Paul B said:
Leave the thing alone. Perfectly normal and natural. A ripped clean tank is not natural and will give you nothing but problems. You are trying to cultivate bacteria, not kill it.

It is perfectly normal and natural, but it is incredibly unsightly with no options left to me to kill it.

rockdiver · Jul 10, 2022

At 7 months this seems somewhat normal. The tank is still new and everything is still processing. The more you do stuff to it the more the process has to restart.
Get a turkey baster and blast it off the rocks everyday change the filter socks everyday or 2 water changes every week not a whole tank water change but 30% or around there.
Let the cycle work, it will work just the more you interrupt it the longer it takes.
A rip clean I think is for years old sand beds.
What kind of rock is this ? How do you feed, what kind of lights and schedule do you have. What kind of skimmer do you have. All questions that can help.

I am no expert by any means but the more you mess with it imo the more issues you might have. Just have to let the process work.
They call this the big ugly stages for a reason and it's not nice.

yanni · Jul 10, 2022

rockdiver said:
At 7 months this seems somewhat normal. The tank is still new and everything is still processing. The more you do stuff to it the more the process has to restart.
Get a turkey baster and blast it off the rocks everyday change the filter socks everyday or 2 water changes every week not a whole tank water change but 30% or around there.
Let the cycle work, it will work just the more you interrupt it the longer it takes.
A rip clean I think is for years old sand beds.
What kind of rock is this ? How do you feed, what kind of lights and schedule do you have. What kind of skimmer do you have. All questions that can help.

I am no expert by any means but the more you mess with it imo the more issues you might have. Just have to let the process work.
They call this the big ugly stages for a reason and it's not nice.

The lobophora doesn't blast off. It is stuck to the rocks, borderline impossible to scrape off. People have success with naso tangs, but my tank is not large enough by a mile to support a naso. The turf algae doesn't blast off, it has to be pulled out where possible.

The rock is old rock from the ocean, had been properly bleached cleaned etc etc multiple times. Feed pellets every second day, mysis once or twice a week. No skimmer, have been meaning to get onto that. 20% water change once a week usually, sometimes a fortnight if work or life has been insane and don't get the chance. AI Prime HD, run 70% UV/Violet, 75% Royal, 80% Blue, 2% Green/Red, 10% White. Lights run 8.30-19.00, ramp of 1hr 30min.

yanni · Jul 10, 2022

I should clarify, I think I used rip clean wrong. Just keep livestock, re cycle tank and get new snails, Cut off all sources to reintroduce lobophora.

DrinkinPepsi · Jul 10, 2022

I too think you leave it for now. I watched Ryan from BRS TV talk for an hour yesterday on biome alge issues and now the video is gone. There is a 10 part series coming out starting Friday I think that I think you should watch before you decide down this path.

DrinkinPepsi · Jul 10, 2022

yanni said:
I should clarify, I think I used rip clean wrong. Just keep livestock, re cycle tank and get new snails, Cut off all sources to reintroduce lobophora.

You would have to bleach that rock all over again, new sand, super clean everything and start from absolute scratch.

reefbandit · Jul 10, 2022

Leave it alone your tank is only 7 months old this is normal. Continue on and let your tank mature further. You may have to learn patience but eventually thing will balance out. It might take another 6-8 months or longer but it will get there.

yanni · Jul 10, 2022

DrinkinPepsi said:
You would have to bleach that rock all over again, new sand, super clean everything and start from absolute scratchI'll def check out

I'll def check out the BRS vids, but I'd ditch the sand and rock, and just start with fresh everything. Fresh media, fresh rock/sand. I'd only keep equipment.

yanni · Jul 10, 2022

reefbandit said:
Leave it alone your tank is only 7 months old this is normal. Continue on and let your tank mature further. You may have to learn patience but eventually thing will balance out. It might take another 6-8 months or longer but it will get there.

I don't think waiting will solve the lobophora issue...

brandon429 · Jul 10, 2022

Yanni

in order for you to know about rip cleans it means you’ve seen rip clean threads. The outcomes are what makes other people want that result

recommends here range from do nothing, to bleach, which are opposite to rip cleans. Decide which method you want from the recommends / ask to see threads where invasions are just left alone, see if they resolve, and ask to see bleach outcome threads. Compare all results. If you don’t get threads to inspect, disregard the offers. if you want to do a rip clean / have the outcomes you’ve already seen/ we sure can. Let me know which way you want to roll first before I type it all

rockdiver · Jul 10, 2022

yanni said:
I don't think waiting will solve the lobophora issue...

Well I think your mind is made up and that's totally fine but it's in the rock now and you would need new rock.
I am reading about lobophora seems hard to get rid of idk what I would do if it was that.
Maybe just pull the rocks out it's on and replace.
Starting over just seems like alot.

If I were to start over I would go for "real" live rock next time around if it's possible where you are at. Real as in out of the ocean not bleached not dry. With that there almost is never an ugly stage.

But with starting over you need to let the process / cycle work.

I see things in my tank and I think hmm if I add this or that it says it will work but then I look around my tank and remember everything I put in there has a job, let them do their job and it may take weeks and maybe longer but I am always glad I didn't add this and that to the tank.
It may work but what is the cause and effect of adding something.

But like I said I am no expert just my opinion

yanni · Jul 10, 2022

rockdiver said:
Well I think your mind is made up and that's totally fine but it's in the rock now and you would need new rock.
I am reading about lobophora seems hard to get rid of idk what I would do if it was that.
Maybe just pull the rocks out it's on and replace.
Starting over just seems like alot.

If I were to start over I would go for "real" live rock next time around if it's possible where you are at. Real as in out of the ocean not bleached not dry. With that there almost is never an ugly stage.

But with starting over you need to let the process / cycle work.

I see things in my tank and I think hmm if I add this or that it says it will work but then I look around my tank and remember everything I put in there has a job, let them do their job and it may take weeks and maybe longer but I am always glad I didn't add this and that to the tank.
It may work but what is the cause and effect of adding something.

But like I said I am no expert just my opinion

Good points. It's hard because my aquascape is a big arch, all glued together, and it's on various parts of the arch.

In Aus, so I'm not sure how feasible real ocean live rock is, but I'd have to look around. Yeah definitely, just think this may be a blessing in disguise to start afresh with better knowledge.

Dburr1014 · Jul 10, 2022

It's a matter of pulling out the rock and scraping of the Algae with dental tools. A pain and time consuming, sure. It's not; starting over, bleaching, killing bacteria, ect. It's about keeping the rock minus the algae.

brandon429 · Jul 10, 2022

Agreed

The system will wind back up here, for two reasons: sourcing selects for this algae in his region and #2 no habits changed that produced this first invasion

To not rip clean will set you back bigtime in reefing ability, you'll waste money avoiding directly undoing what's been allowed. You risk a dinos outbreak in exchanging rocks for new

Good job fighting off what you could, untouched versions of this invasion look much worse.

You need to test rock one single rock done the right way, before the rip clean. Do a rock the right way, set back in tank, watch for regrowth characters in a week. If looks good, do all plus clean the sand. Rip cleans are never harmful they're regenerative. It's why in any rip clean thread you see the owner so happy.

You need to pull one rock and work it on the counter our unique way back to clean. Peroxide goes on the clean surfaces, we aren't brushing algae and peroxide off as a mixture that spreads cells around the tank and smashes them into crevices.

Dental style cleaning on the counter like a big tooth is exacting, can be roughly scored to truly upend the attaching algae then after rinsed off peroxide goes on the clean spots to burn leftover anchor cells. Now that's a clean test rock and you can work around any attached corals. It's reef dentistry.

fish farmer · Jul 10, 2022

Dburr1014 said:
It's a matter of pulling out the rock and scraping of the Algae with dental tools. A pain and time consuming, sure. It's not; starting over, bleaching, killing bacteria, ect. It's about keeping the rock minus the algae.

I was thinking this as well. I've had the same algae in my first reef with wild live Fiji rock, it was still with me at the two year mark. It was well stuck in the crevices of a piece I couldn't move. Some was also on a plastic overflow.

I see you have some coralline growing and corals encrusting. 7 months in you are well on your way to a nice tank.