To restart a tank or not? Biocube 25 V. IM Lagoon 25

[Aqueeria]

So I come here thanks to in part from @

TK_KW They saved me from the internet trolls on the Ontario Reefing FaceBook group - where they are just nasty. ​

I know, or have read that most on here would like a complete picture before giving anecdotal advice.

1996-2006 I had a 90 gallon FOWLR Set up from Big Al's here in Toronto. several tangs as well as the required pair of Percula clownfish. Several colonies of Christmas tree worms and feather dusters. Misc cleanup - urchins and hermits as well as snails and then 2 BTA.

Very simple set up, it had compact fluorescent as lighting and a protein skimmer HOB and an ehem canister filter. Could not keep coral which back then was fine as I liked all the fish and the anemones.

Now, fast forward to 2020. I decide that I want to get back into the hobby. So because it is a pandemic, I decide that Amazon.ca is the best place to go - note to self it is not, unless you are willing to pay $$$ on top of the retail price. But, it was convenient and they delivered door to door. So I went with the following:

All prices are in $CAD

Coralife Fish Tank Led BioCube Aquarium Starter Kits, Size 32 Gallon - $650​

Coralife 100181706 Marine Salt Mix, 200 Gallon - $98.99​

CerMedia MarinePure 1.5" Spheres, 1 Gallon 1.5" Sphere Bio-Filter Media for Marine and Freshwater Aquariums, 1-Gallon - $75.00​

Nature's Ocean 12-Inch Coral Base Rocks for Aquarium, 40-Pound - $150 (this was the one that gets all sort of negative reviews as to algae growth)​

CaribSea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand, 20-Pound - $49.99​

Hydor Q01011 1 KPS-Wavemaker Pump WiFi CONTROLLABLE, Black - $220.00​

Mag-Float Glass Aquarium Cleaner, Medium - $49.99​

Red Sea Marine Care Test Kit for Aquarium - $120.00​

Seapora 4040 Filter Floss Aquarium Filter Pad, 10 sq. ft./12" x 120" - $12.00​

Cobalt Aquatics Neo-Therm Heater, 100 watt - $152.00​

Aquatic Life RO Buddie Four Stage Reverse Osmosis System with Color Changing Mixed Bed Deionization Cartridge - $140.00​

No ATO, good lights - though I have the AquaKnight V2 - which is good but does not fit a non-rimless tank.

I ended up having to go and pick up the tank from FedEx as they would not deliver, even though it was paid for. Bad feelings begin.
Got it back from FedEx and set it up. Cycled with Biospora. Used the Red Sea test kits, until I got irritated with them and bought the Hanna range at $69.00 per pop for Phosphates, Calcium, DKH and MG.

After cycling the tank, we were golden. I was really only looking into low-light corals and did not really understand par. Now I do, the par on the Biocube is sub-par. Then my nutrients spiked and I spent 6+ months dosing with Vibrant and it helped to a point. But even with 50% water changes everything kept dying. I could not keep snails alive for more than 2 months, though, I have 5 Cerith that have somehow survived. As well as GSP and at this rate I am glad it has survived.

I warn you this is going to be a long post.

ICP test says everything is normal and again I consider these rocks from Amazon - another few posters said negative things. But, hey, I am a nice person but I might be inclined to believe them.

So I dosed with Vibrant, it worked for a few months until I got fed up with the price.

Now nearly 2 years later everything as I said is dead except the GSP and the fish. I lost all my zoanthids, Christmas Tree worms and Anemones, well, there is a tiny baby gnome coming back.

SO - do I just say **** it as all the posts on FB say as I am a "bad" reef keeper?

My new tank would be:

$1500 CAD. Before livestock. I live in a small apartment and as much as I would like another 100 gallon tank but there is no space.

All thoughts are welcome.

 

[Fish Think Pink]

So I come here thanks to in part from @

TK_KW They saved me from the internet trolls on the Ontario Reefing FaceBook group - where they are just nasty. ​

I know, or have read that most on here would like a complete picture before giving anecdotal advice.

1996-2006 I had a 90 gallon FOWLR Set up from Big Al's here in Toronto. several tangs as well as the required pair of Percula clownfish. Several colonies of Christmas tree worms and feather dusters. Misc cleanup - urchins and hermits as well as snails and then 2 BTA.

Very simple set up, it had compact fluorescent as lighting and a protein skimmer HOB and an ehem canister filter. Could not keep coral which back then was fine as I liked all the fish and the anemones.

Now, fast forward to 2020. I decide that I want to get back into the hobby. So because it is a pandemic, I decide that Amazon.ca is the best place to go - note to self it is not, unless you are willing to pay $$$ on top of the retail price. But, it was convenient and they delivered door to door. So I went with the following:

All prices are in $CAD

Coralife Fish Tank Led BioCube Aquarium Starter Kits, Size 32 Gallon - $650​

Coralife 100181706 Marine Salt Mix, 200 Gallon - $98.99​

CerMedia MarinePure 1.5" Spheres, 1 Gallon 1.5" Sphere Bio-Filter Media for Marine and Freshwater Aquariums, 1-Gallon - $75.00​

Nature's Ocean 12-Inch Coral Base Rocks for Aquarium, 40-Pound - $150 (this was the one that gets all sort of negative reviews as to algae growth)​

CaribSea Arag-Alive Special Grade Reef Sand, 20-Pound - $49.99​

Hydor Q01011 1 KPS-Wavemaker Pump WiFi CONTROLLABLE, Black - $220.00​

Mag-Float Glass Aquarium Cleaner, Medium - $49.99​

Red Sea Marine Care Test Kit for Aquarium - $120.00​

Seapora 4040 Filter Floss Aquarium Filter Pad, 10 sq. ft./12" x 120" - $12.00​

Cobalt Aquatics Neo-Therm Heater, 100 watt - $152.00​

Aquatic Life RO Buddie Four Stage Reverse Osmosis System with Color Changing Mixed Bed Deionization Cartridge - $140.00​

No ATO, good lights - though I have the AquaKnight V2 - which is good but does not fit a non-rimless tank.

I ended up having to go and pick up the tank from FedEx as they would not deliver, even though it was paid for. Bad feelings begin.
Got it back from FedEx and set it up. Cycled with Biospora. Used the Red Sea test kits, until I got irritated with them and bought the Hanna range at $69.00 per pop for Phosphates, Calcium, DKH and MG.

After cycling the tank, we were golden. I was really only looking into low-light corals and did not really understand par. Now I do, the par on the Biocube is sub-par. Then my nutrients spiked and I spent 6+ months dosing with Vibrant and it helped to a point. But even with 50% water changes everything kept dying. I could not keep snails alive for more than 2 months, though, I have 5 Cerith that have somehow survived. As well as GSP and at this rate I am glad it has survived.

I warn you this is going to be a long post.

ICP test says everything is normal and again I consider these rocks from Amazon - another few posters said negative things. But, hey, I am a nice person but I might be inclined to believe them.

So I dosed with Vibrant, it worked for a few months until I got fed up with the price.

Now nearly 2 years later everything as I said is dead except the GSP and the fish. I lost all my zoanthids, Christmas Tree worms and Anemones, well, there is a tiny baby gnome coming back.

SO - do I just say **** it as all the posts on FB say as I am a "bad" reef keeper?

My new tank would be:

$1500 CAD. Before livestock. I live in a small apartment and as much as I would like another 100 gallon tank but there is no space.

All thoughts are welcome.

Sorry for your losses and sorry you were dealing with nasty people. Also FedEx seems no longer the quality company they used to be - I don't use them any more.

There is a lot of info above, but doesn't seem like you found resolution. You mention Vibrant and I see green hair algae (GHA) in post, and I've done the Vibrant thing. Dips don't kill algae, so suspect we reintroduced more GHA on frags without having intended to do so. I've moved onto hydrogen peroxide for GHA as I can't keep ahead of mine (and use it on frag plugs, but use caution around corals). While you mention test kits and ICP tests, you've not listed any parameters and/or how parameters changed over time. Not sure how to respond to your post because I'm not sure what you are asking (sorry)

Your post subject line says "To restart or not" ... what would you do or want different in a restart? If you keep tank as is, then what one thing would make it better for you?

 

[Aqueeria]

Sorry for your losses and sorry you were dealing with nasty people. Also FedEx seems no longer the quality company they used to be - I don't use them any more.

There is a lot of info above, but doesn't seem like you found resolution. You mention Vibrant and I see green hair algae (GHA) in post, and I've done the Vibrant thing. Dips don't kill algae, so suspect we reintroduced more GHA on frags without having intended to do so. I've moved onto hydrogen peroxide for GHA as I can't keep ahead of mine (and use it on frag plugs, but use caution around corals). While you mention test kits and ICP tests, you've not listed any parameters and/or how parameters changed over time. Not sure how to respond to your post because I'm not sure what you are asking (sorry)

Your post subject line says "To restart or not" ... what would you do or want different in a restart? If you keep tank as is, then what one thing would make it better for you?

Thanks for the response I appreciate it. Since I las tested, pic attached. phosphates are through the roof. basically everything dies. I am just thinking of getting a new tank - mainly want to focus on RFA - see the clowns though the anemones will not host them. My GSP is fine, but even Xenia dies, I have this tiny toadstool that is holding out and all of the benthic sponges do very well. Orange and purple. The "live rock" I bought from the las is great and is green and purple, the other rock is just meh after 2+ years. IDK I just want to do a new build, new equipment and see how that goes, but I don't want to obviously waste $$$ As you said, I dosed Vibrant for months until it just seemed I was masking the underlying issues. I am thinking get a new tank set up - IM Lagoon. Then turn the Biocube into a habitat for a Peacock Mantis shrimp?

 

[Aqueeria]

I also do not think the Biocube has the Par, I have the Aquaight v2 which is good nd would get an AI Prime - or even a Spectra but I am not wanting to mod the Biocube, so a new tank seems the best way to go and just start from scratch?

 

[Fish Think Pink]

I also do not think the Biocube has the Par, I have the Aquaight v2 which is good nd would get an AI Prime - or even a Spectra but I am not wanting to mod the Biocube, so a new tank seems the best way to go and just start from scratch?

Replacing entire tank because you want to upgrade your lighting seems expensive solution. Lighting is not my strong suit, so defer to others on light (there is a Forum section dedicated to lighting info: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/aquarium-lighting-by-dana-riddle.956/ )

Phosphates through the roof will impact corals, and this is a product I've been using to reduce mine, but you aren't limited to this option:
https://www.melevsreef.com/reefshop/dry-goods/additives-and-solutions/phosphate-rx

When both my nitrates and phosphates are up (like now), then I use Red Sea NoPoX for Algae Management. I've also put a refugium box in my sump with macro algae (had red ogo before but BF jacked up my sump when I was on travel so I'm using a box inside box). We also just started a bioreactor pellet reactor pump

 

[Aqueeria]

Replacing entire tank because you want to upgrade your lighting seems expensive solution. Lighting is not my strong suit, so defer to others on light (there is a Forum section dedicated to lighting info: https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/aquarium-lighting-by-dana-riddle.956/ )

Phosphates through the roof will impact corals, and this is a product I've been using to reduce mine, but you aren't limited to this option:
https://www.melevsreef.com/reefshop/dry-goods/additives-and-solutions/phosphate-rx

When both my nitrates and phosphates are up (like now), then I use Red Sea NoPoX for Algae Management. I've also put a refugium box in my sump with macro algae (had red ogo before but BF jacked up my sump when I was on travel so I'm using a box inside box). We also just started a bioreactor pellet reactor pump

Thanks, yes I like Melev's reef. Good info. My thoughts are that I cannot mod the Biocube so I would like a rimless tank - as in the IM Lagoon - one can do more things with it? IE ad an AI rime or 2. I just feel limited and I know everyone says that the issues must be with me, but the stock par on the bio cube is only 53-65. Not great. I'd love a Red Sea Reefer but not in the budget so far.

Your tank looks great!

 

[hllb]

While I think the IM lagoon tank looks great, I agree that your issues are not really with your tank. Get your phosphates down (I got the best results running Chemipure elite in the filter and having a nice refugium in chamber 2) and replace your light. I have a biocube 32 and replace the stock lights with an AI Hydra 26 HD in the hood. I've been running it for over a year and have had good results. I had an atrocious GHA problem too, and while it took a year to resolve, it did go away completely. I'll be back to post a picture of the light setup in my cube.

 

[hllb]

 

[davidcalgary29]

You're certainly not a bad reefkeeper, but have, I think, run across some bad people. Or at least some very unhelpful and corrosive people.

Before you move on to another tank, I'd take a look at this one, as it certainly isn't a disaster. Yes, you have majanos and colonial hydroids. They're unpleasant, but certainly not going to kill anything in your tank. And GHA can be managed. At the very least, you've got a great setup for a quarantine tank.

Everything -- and I'm sure you know this -- always starts with water quality. I'd focus on that first, as everything else is secondary.

Have you reached out to Fragbox? They're great, and local for you, and can probably help you with a number of essential points, instead of just new equipment or a new tank.

I know that you want a 25g tank, but I'm going to put in yet another plug for the Evo 13.5. It's such a great little tank, and you can cultivate SPS in it with the stock lighting. There are multiple build threads on this site that showcase exactly how much you can pack in to them. I set up mine for $300 CAD -- that's tank, rock, sand, and an upgraded return pump, and that's a bargain for a reef system.

 

[Aqueeria]

While I think the IM lagoon tank looks great, I agree that your issues are not really with your tank. Get your phosphates down (I got the best results running Chemipure elite in the filter and having a nice refugium in chamber 2) and replace your light. I have a biocube 32 and replace the stock lights with an AI Hydra 26 HD in the hood. I've been running it for over a year and have had good results. I had an atrocious GHA problem too, and while it took a year to resolve, it did go away completely. I'll be back to post a picture of the light setup in my cube.

Nice. Can I retro fit it? The Biocube? I am in Toronto and all the Google says to get a light set of $399 US. which is not feasible, well, I'd buy the IM Lagoon for that in CAD. I am also all for getting the InTank refugium etc and a skimmer and upgrade the pump if you think that would help - ditch this Crap rock from Amazon - keep the sand which is pristine - and a few pieces of actual live rock with coralline on them - 10 LBS

 

[hllb]

Nice. Can I retro fit it? The Biocube? I am in Toronto and all the Google says to get a light set of $399 US. which is not feasible, well, I'd buy the IM Lagoon for that in CAD. I am also all for getting the InTank refugium etc and a skimmer and upgrade the pump if you think that would help - ditch this Crap rock from Amazon - keep the sand which is pristine - and a few pieces of actual live rock with coralline on them - 10 LBS

Do you have the AI Prime already? I've seen people have good results with an AI Prime on a 32g cube as well. I picked up a used 26 HD here on R2R ($200 USD I think) and retrofit it into the hood (you need a 3.5" hole saw for the fan, and you have to drill out some of the internal plastic in order to get the cord in - it was much easier than I anticipated to do). The par I can get with this set up (you do have to remove the lenses from your light to get enough spread) would burn up the coral. I think I have it set to at most 50%. With the prime light, You likely wouldn't get as much spread and not sure if it would have enough par for acros, but I would think any softies, LPS, and easy SPS would be fine.

If you need to buy the prime for the lagoon tank, you could always buy that first, try it in your cube, and if you don't like it, get the IM tank later.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Nice. Can I retro fit it? The Biocube? I am in Toronto and all the Google says to get a light set of $399 US. which is not feasible, well, I'd buy the IM Lagoon for that in CAD. I am also all for getting the InTank refugium etc and a skimmer and upgrade the pump if you think that would help - ditch this Crap rock from Amazon - keep the sand which is pristine - and a few pieces of actual live rock with coralline on them - 10 LBS

Do you know what your PAR levels are in your tank? Do you know if current lighting is insufficient for your needs?

I think upgrades are lots of fun, but I'd probably concentrate first on water quality, bolstering your CUC (tuxedo urchins are great), macro algae, and phytoplankton first.

 

[Aqueeria]

Do you have the AI Prime already? I've seen people have good results with an AI Prime on a 32g cube as well. I picked up a used 26 HD here on R2R ($200 USD I think) and retrofit it into the hood (you need a 3.5" hole saw for the fan, and you have to drill out some of the internal plastic in order to get the cord in - it was much easier than I anticipated to do). The par I can get with this set up (you do have to remove the lenses from your light to get enough spread) would burn up the coral. I think I have it set to at most 50%. With the prime light, You likely wouldn't get as much spread and not sure if it would have enough par for acros, but I would think any softies, LPS, and easy SPS would be fine.

If you need to buy the prime for the lagoon tank, you could always buy that first, try it in your cube, and if you don't like it, get the IM tank later.

No I do not have the AI Prime. I have the AquaKnight v2 - which is great, but it is designed to go on a rimless tanks, as is the AI. - yeah drilling is not my forte. I'd rather keep the bio cube and get a mantis shrimp for it then start a new tank? I can move most of my equipment into the new build?

 

[Aqueeria]

No I do not have the AI Prime. I have the AquaKnight v2 - which is great, but it is designed to go on a rimless tanks, as is the AI. - yeah drilling is not my forte. I'd rather keep the bio cube and get a mantis shrimp for it then start a new tank? I can move most of my equipment into the new build?

I'd say the par with the stock lights on the 32 led is about 55-75?

 

[hllb]

I'd say the par with the stock lights on the 32 led is about 55-75?

I'd say this is likely pretty correct based on some things I've seen. It might, in some places, be up to 100.

 

[MaxTremors]

I also do not think the Biocube has the Par, I have the Aquaight v2 which is good nd would get an AI Prime - or even a Spectra but I am not wanting to mod the Biocube, so a new tank seems the best way to go and just start from scratch?

The biocube light isn’t the best but is absolutely adequate to grow most softies, lps, and even some sps and anemones if you put them high up on the rockwork (it’s got plenty of PAR higher up in the tank, the issue is that the LEDs they use don’t penetrate as deeply into the tank as a higher end light with similar wattage). I don’t think the tank or your equipment is the problem. As you mentioned, the rock could be the issue (in general I am not a fan of dry rock), but if some corals and inverts are surviving, it may not be the problem. It sounds like you should maybe do a rip clean.