tin, aluminum and icp test question

david campbell · Feb 19, 2023

I just switched from the ATI ICP test to the RMS OES test for the start of my 3rd month of reef moonshinners dosing and I have some uniformity /detail questions (1-4), and so WHAT THE H??? questions (5-9). I hope they can be answered as close as one can.

Tank is 150TG, I only dose sodium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate, calcium hydroxide, reef roids, RMS, MG from time to time and acro power. Remaining Acro power has maybeeeeeeee three days left, when its out I’m not refilling it and I will truly be 100% RM for all element needs

1. First the RMS OES test came back in 8 days (mailed off on the February 9th) USPS tracking said it was delivered to Houston on the 13th, and results came in on the 17th. so is RMS OES tested inside the U.S? anyway it was a lot quicker than the ATI tests.

2. Is the RMS OES tested element TITAN the same as the ATI tested elements TITANIUM or TUNGSTEN? or simply put is TITAN the same as TITANIUM or TUNGSTEN?

3. Is the RMS OES tested element SULFATE the same as the ATI tested element SULFER? or simply put is SULFATE the same as SULFER?

4. The RMS OES test results did not contain the following elements found on the ATI Test: TITANIUM, TUNGSTEN, SULFER or SILVER. simply put ;why do some icp tests not test the same elements.? or why are these tests no identical in what is tested. i mean they are like 98% identical. why not 100%

5. What maybe causing my Aluminum to continue climbing? Starting ATI test =7.51, ATI test 2= 10.89, RMS OES test 3 to 15.10. i cannot find no more metal hovering or hanging around my tank . anything that was metal has been replaced with plactic.

6. What may have caused my tin levels to jump up? It went from 23.68 to 19.22 now 20.30. different tests used maybe?

7. What may have caused my copper levels to jump up? It went from 0.00 to 0.00 to 1.40. different tests used maybe?

8. What may have caused my silicon level to jump up? It went from 210 to 201 now 257.different tests used maybe?

9. I’m quitting ACRO power in about three days. What impacts may I encounter once the tank goes cold turkey? thanks in advance.

tests bought from the reefmoonshinner webs store test are sent here.

thanks

Randy Holmes-Farley · Feb 19, 2023

@Christoph

Oceamo itself is not in the US. They are in Austria. Christoph is the principle person. I'm not sure if they have now have some sot of satellite testing facility.

I expect titan is titanium.

Both sulfate and sulfur are testing for the sulfur in sulfate, but sulfate weighs far more so will come out much higher with the same amount of sulfur detected.

I think it unlikely that testing silver or tungsten is particularly worthwhile, but I cannot say why they chose the elements they did. Might be a detectability issue.

your aluminum is not very high and I would not worry about it. It most often comes from white media like biobrick sorts of things, phosguard, etc.

You silicon level is also not that high, and is never a concern unless you have a problematic level of diatoms. i specifically dosed to the same level that you report about once a week.

I don't know what to expect when stopping acropower. Why were you using it and why are you stopping?

Beefyreefy · Feb 19, 2023

Tin can leach from plastics, in particular tubing, but I also had it happen with a Rubbermaid “style” tub that’s I was using as a secondary sump. I’ve found that it’s not really for concern unless it’s much higher than that.

Christoph · Feb 19, 2023

Hello,
Thanks @Randy Holmes-Farley for already adressing those points and tagging me along. All the analyses are conducted in Austria, but the Reef Moonshiner ICP Kits (which we process in our lab) are shipped at least twice weekly from the US, so the turnaround is usually very fast.

2) yes, we seem to have a translation issue there: titan = titanium

3) ATI and others measure sulfur using ICP-OES, we measure the sulfate anion using ion chromatography. You can intercalculate between those: Sulfur concentration * 3 = sulfate concentration

4) sulfur and titanium already explained. Silver we actually monitor but did not have a single tank yet that had a measureable concentration, so i dont include it on the report. Tungsten we dont measure routinely because it is difficultt to keep stable in our calibration standard matrices, so measurement has a high risk of error. Furthermore i dont see tungsten as a very significant issue. Did you have problems with elevated tungsten before? If you want more elements measured (and all others at lower detection limits) try the ICP-MS test next time.

5) your Aluminium concentration is lower compared with most other tanks we analyze, so no reason to worry. If you dont use any aluminium containing media feeds are likely the source. We have found significant aluminium in some flake fish feeds.

6) thats not really a jump, the concentrations are essentially the same.

7) 0.00 is not a valid way to report a result. It means in this case "not detected", so below their limit of detection. It was above the limit of detection in our case. So no jump there aswel.

8) thats also not a very big jump. Typical sources of silicon are activated carbon, the source water and zeolithes. Smaller amounts can enter the tank via water additives and salts, as well as with feeds.

9) im not really aware of the ingredients in this product, so i cannot make any prediction. Organic carbon dosing should imo be reduced slowly over weeks, so the microbiome (and microbial mass) can adapt.

I hope the answer was helpful for you,
all the best,
Christoph

david campbell · Feb 19, 2023

these answers were very very helpful. thanks all. I dosed acro in the beginning when I was not to smart about why. lol. im getting away from it.

PSXerholic · Feb 19, 2023

david campbell said:
I just switched from the ATI ICP test to the RMS OES test for the start of my 3rd month of reef moonshinners dosing and I have some uniformity /detail questions (1-4), and so WHAT THE H??? questions (5-9). I hope they can be answered as close as one can.

Tank is 150TG, I only dose sodium bicarbonate, calcium carbonate, calcium hydroxide, reef roids, RMS, MG from time to time and acro power. Remaining Acro power has maybeeeeeeee three days left, when its out I’m not refilling it and I will truly be 100% RM for all element needs

1. First the RMS OES test came back in 8 days (mailed off on the February 9th) USPS tracking said it was delivered to Houston on the 13th, and results came in on the 17th. so is RMS OES tested inside the U.S? anyway it was a lot quicker than the ATI tests.

2. Is the RMS OES tested element TITAN the same as the ATI tested elements TITANIUM or TUNGSTEN? or simply put is TITAN the same as TITANIUM or TUNGSTEN?

3. Is the RMS OES tested element SULFATE the same as the ATI tested element SULFER? or simply put is SULFATE the same as SULFER?

4. The RMS OES test results did not contain the following elements found on the ATI Test: TITANIUM, TUNGSTEN, SULFER or SILVER. simply put ;why do some icp tests not test the same elements.? or why are these tests no identical in what is tested. i mean they are like 98% identical. why not 100%

5. What maybe causing my Aluminum to continue climbing? Starting ATI test =7.51, ATI test 2= 10.89, RMS OES test 3 to 15.10. i cannot find no more metal hovering or hanging around my tank . anything that was metal has been replaced with plactic.

6. What may have caused my tin levels to jump up? It went from 23.68 to 19.22 now 20.30. different tests used maybe?

7. What may have caused my copper levels to jump up? It went from 0.00 to 0.00 to 1.40. different tests used maybe?

8. What may have caused my silicon level to jump up? It went from 210 to 201 now 257.different tests used maybe?

9. I’m quitting ACRO power in about three days. What impacts may I encounter once the tank goes cold turkey? thanks in advance.

tests bought from the reefmoonshinner webs store test are sent here.

View attachment 3029540

thanks

Hi David,
The Reef Moonshiner's Test Kits are a collaboration between Reef Moonshiner's and Oceamo.
Test Kits are prepared, sold, distributed and collected by Reef Moonshiner's and then expedited airfreighted multiple times per week to the Oceamo Lab, my preferred ICP laboratory for the Water sample analysis.
I strive for quick turnarounds, even while the microfiltered water is good for a long transit time, the real benefit comes from quick turnaround times when needed ;-)

You will at some point perform likely the ICP-MS test and I bet you will like these results and even deeper view into your water chemistry ;-)

I feel Chris already answered your other questions.
Thanks for sharing your results and thoughts.

-Andre