The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[Mark Gray]

Some things for the casual reader to consider:

1) Is buying new fish today the same as it was 10-30 years ago? even a year ago? (Condition)
2) Does the kind of fish matter? (IE I don’t believe most acanthurus tangs, angels, and other commonly coveted fish will be as resistant to parasites as Paul’s selected fish).
3) Are these methods mutually exclusive to quarantine (other than the no-quarantining piece obviously).
4) Does it matter to the end user (or fish) if a fish is resistant (immunity is not attainable scientifically) or if it’s in a system devoid of these pathogens or nasties?
——other than in the case of a resistant group of fish, a stress event could give disease the upper hand and often does for most users thus making it a ticking time bomb of sorts

Thank you Paul, great writeup. If I understand the takeaways of your method, can they be summarized below?

1) Do not QT
2) Feed good foods, preferably fresh foods (IE avoid flakes or pellets)
3) Add more and varied bacteria in the form of mud or other ways
4) Natural seawater is best if possible

I also think users would love to see more photos, you have some very beautiful, disease-resistant fish.

I remember you mentioning undergravel filters in the past as well? I thought perhaps there was something to that the more I thought of it!

Also, I seem to remember your systems weren’t overstocked like I tend to keep mine, I personally think that’s an important factor as well.

I think users would benefit from a current stock list as well if you don’t mind, I certainly would!

I know we are on opposing sides of this debate (@HotRocks and I stocking two 180 gallon tanks, and a 500 gallon tank full of tangs and angels is a very different ball game) but I genuinely appreciate your contributions and hold a healthy amount of respect for you. It wasn’t long ago I was almost completely against quarantine (about four years).

Happy New Year to you and your family! God bless.

Can I ask why you say Tangs and Angels are different?

 

[chicago]

Paul. Sounds like a very very healthy and well
Maintained system. I love the idea of adding in new fresh bacteria ect. I believe you have so many positive factors going your system does well and the Fish do well with ick present. My fear for those that are new to the hobby or without resources and who do not follow what you do will eventually have Big ick crash death issues. Many sysytems have ick present at all times as part of the fauna. It’s when the system goes unstable or bad due to neglect ect that the down ward spiral of ick can crash the Tank. Just my observation and thoughts.

 

[najer]

The method would be literally dangerous (for fish bought) for new reefers to read and try and replicate these outcomes with no clear coaching on file. An article would hurt the hobby via temptation unproven, which I hope to prod into being proven for marine cuz it works well in freshwater for sure.

If the article opens, closes and ends with skepticism while showing pictures of pro tanks who pulled it off but never had to account for it in another’s build thread, then I’d read it and not think the article was about to cause the purchase and death of 1500 fish all at once.

Coaching is not Instagram worthy food prep of clams and marine fare. It’s johnny five posting his new 40 gallon nano, all dry materials, first month after cycling completion and he’s asking about fish, then someone asks Johnny if he’d like to have his tank become part of scientific proof ran and consulted virtually by a published book author on reefing

Johnny says yes before we’re even done trying to sell him on participation, makes the link here and example #1 is under way

We get to watch all details, now that’s proof.

View attachment 932220
I’m still googling affect vs effect lol too late to adjust my graphic

13 g 52 L aio, long story, about 5 or 6 weeks old, filled from the big tank, my 55 litre let go, no fish yet but the first fish will just go in. the bag the fish comes in will be floated and water will be added and then the fish will be allowed to swim out of the bag, zero stress!
Yes I trust my lfs water implicitly, the less stress the better imo.

DSC_0003 by sshipuk, on Flickr

 

[Paul B]

It’s when the system goes unstable or bad due to neglect ect that the down ward spiral of ick can crash the Tank. Just my observation and thoughts.

Neglect etc. will crash any tank and no method will prevent that. But if the fish are very healthy, they can take a lot more than semi healthy fish. We can tell very healthy fish because they will fill with eggs or spawn if they have the conditions or a partner. All healthy female fish fill with eggs and fish that are not in perfect health do not. If you have a pair of almost anything and they never spawn, they are not healthy as most of what fish do is poop and spawn.

Najer, I would consider that a healthy tank despite the cyano and algae. Those things would be to a fishes liking although not usually ours.
That growth will not effect the health of the tank and will increase biodiversity.
That has happened to my reef a number of times. The corals and fish flourished and I didn't do anything to alleviate it but it straightened out on it's own.

Here is my reef many years ago with a hair algae infestation. I didn't panic or add manatees. I let it run it's course and it straightened out by itself leaving the water healthier. I didn't lose any corals or fish and as a matter of fact, the creature health was better than it ever was. Fish don't care about algae and are used to it.


This 10 year old mandarin thrived in my tank because of the growth on the rocks. Clean rocks equal dead mandarins.

 

[brandon429]

Najer

Id like to have that tank in my sand rinse thread for ocd types but if not, I must admit that's what most reefs look like in person (the only ones I saw were caymans in the 90s, it looks like Paul's pics as well from his dives) and that diversity is likely to suppress disease. It looks neat agreed. Now that is live rock.

 

[Paul B]

I want to add that my method or no quarantining depends on keeping the fish healthy as it won't work on semi healthy fish. I mentioned the need to feed whole foods with the guts. Brine shrimp or dry foods do not count and this needs to be done at almost every meal.

 

[chicago]

want to add that my method or no quarantining depends on keeping the fish healthy as it won't work on semi healthy fish. I mentioned the need to feed whole foods with the guts. Brine shrimp or dry foods do not count and this needs to be done at almost every meal.

Right on... thank you Paul

 

[ReefWithCare]

I want to add that my method or no quarantining depends on keeping the fish healthy as it won't work on semi healthy fish. I mentioned the need to feed whole foods with the guts. Brine shrimp or dry foods do not count and this needs to be done at almost every meal.

You need to go into more detail on how to source and prep these Whole Foods. I don’t know what foods to buy, how to prep it, and how much to feed ‍.

 

[Cruz Mc5]

You need to go into more detail on how to source and prep these Whole Foods. I don’t know what foods to buy, how to prep it, and how much to feed ‍.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/clams-the-best-food-for-a-reef.499468/

 

[RMS18]

There are multiple ways to excel in this hobby. I have failed many times in the past because I did NOT qt. This lead to dead fish, and points where I wanted to leave the hobby. Since qt I have NEVER lost a fish or saw any signs of illness. I keep fish alive because of qt. At the end of the day keeping the fish alive is most important. We take these animals out of their home, and into small box's of water.

 

[User1]

Can I ask why you say Tangs and Angels are different?

Probably because there is a history of difficult to keep species, more susceptible to carry, bring, or develop, disease. Just like there are fish with scales, without, etc.

I think one common theme in this thread is one of tank maturity. That is different than a tank cycle.

 

[Paul B]

You need to go into more detail on how to source and prep these Whole Foods. I don’t know what foods to buy, how to prep it, and how much to feed ‍.

There is that thread about clams but any shellfish would be great especially mussels. Or this article by Redfishbluefish
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/feeding-your-fish-how-to-create-your-own-diy-mollusk-buffet.544/

These shellfish can be a supplemental food and not the entire meal. We want the bacteria and parasites in these foods. Canned foods do not count and fresh is better than commercially frozen. Live worms of any type, even earthworms are great.

 

[Paul B]

At the end of the day keeping the fish alive is most important. We take these animals out of their home, and into small box's of water.

I disagree a little with this, but just a little
At the end of the day keeping the fish alive as long as it's presumed lifespan is most important. If I keep a clownfish alive for 10 or 15 years I would consider that a failure because that fish can live 30 years. I can keep almost any fish alive in a reduced state of health but I wouldn't want to live like that and neither does the fish.
If the fish doesn't die of old age, we failed.

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks for taking the time to write this @Paul B

As I've said previously, it's up to each and every person to decide for themselves how to go about keeping their fish healthy. I outline (quarantine) protocols which have worked the best for me. I also do not feel our methods are mutually exclusive, as I use many of your nutritional tips (live blackworms, fish oil, etc.) in both QT and DT. It makes all the sense in the world to build up your fishes' immunity whether they go through QT or not.

Happy New Year, my friend!

 

[Paul B]

Humble, it's about time. Luckily I have not gotten beaten up on here so far.
Happy New Year to you too my friend.

 

[RMS18]

I disagree a little with this, but just a little
At the end of the day keeping the fish alive as long as it's presumed lifespan is most important. If I keep a clownfish alive for 10 or 15 years I would consider that a failure because that fish can live 30 years. I can keep almost any fish alive in a reduced state of health but I wouldn't want to live like that and neither does the fish.
If the fish doesn't die of old age, we failed.

I should have elaborated further on that point. That is what I meant. I forget there is a mentality in this hobby that a 10 year old fish is a win. When that fish lives to 20 in the wild.

I may be splitting hairs here but for example my blackcap basslet would be dead if I didn't qt. He had a swim bladder issue and if I didn't vent his swim bladder he still wouldn't be with me 4 years later. Same with my first fish I ever bought, a female clown. She is only 4.5 years old as that's how long I've been in the hobby. She had Brook and I believe if I left her alone she would be dead.

But I may kill her myself if she continues to bite me :mad:

 

[Paul B]

Those clowns are nasty. Wait until she is 27 like this one. She will take your arm off. Bags under her eyes and all.

 

[Paul B]

Now this is what I call a fish. The colors just Pop don't they!
It is a clingfish and not as common as tangs. Most people don't have them or know what they are. Everyone knows tangs.
(notice the growth on my side glass)


Look at the enthusiasm as she eats some worms.

 

[Jay Norris]

Brandon, this isn't an alternate method. This was the first method. (I was there) Quarantining is the alternate method.

Hi Paul, love your post, I was also their in the beginning, as I use to collect my own fish, rocks and sand from the ocean. I also started keeping my fish and corals in a SS rimmed tank, I believe was only 15 or so gallons, with incandescent lights for lighting, and then we moved up to 30 or so gallon plexi tanks with florescence lighting, did very little water changes, ran air stones for water movement and oxygenation, and add a bag of carbon in the tank every week or so. By the way Robert Straughn lived a few houses away from me as was the main reason I became involved in the marine aquarium hobby. He had some very amazing tanks in his house at the time, and was the one who suggest I feed Rose Coral to my 4 Eyed Butterfly fish. We never quarantined anything we collected and all the things mostly survived, except for the corals due to improper lighting and lack of understanding how to care for them at the time.

 

[NS Mike D]

Thanks for taking the time to write this @Paul B

As I've said previously, it's up to each and every person to decide for themselves how to go about keeping their fish healthy. I outline (quarantine) protocols which have worked the best for me. I also do not feel our methods are mutually exclusive, as I use many of your nutritional tips (live blackworms, fish oil, etc.) in both QT and DT. It makes all the sense in the world to build up your fishes' immunity whether they go through QT or not.

Happy New Year, my friend!

excellent point.