The Other Way to Run a Reef Tank (no Quarantine)

[H3rm1tCr@b]

I absolutely love this concept! I don't quarantine my fish either, mostly because I don't have the time or space for more worry and tanks. I did however medicate my tank once when my betta fish and tetras got ich. I separated the snails and dwarf frog I had and I guess I must have put them in too soon; my frog sadly passed away. I also like the idea you mentioned of seeding your aquariums with biologically active things. That is exactly what I do and I adore looking for my potentially "bad" animals like majano, crabs, bristle worms, etc.

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

In addition to this I’ve never quarantined my coral or inverts, I have dozens of crabs, loads of starfish, snails, shrimps etc, I’ve dont own a UV or ozone. I’ve never had AEFW, red bugs, black bugs, planaria or MENs, am I the luckiest bugger on the planet or does having loads of cuc etc help towards this. I’ve also steered clear on the known ich fish ie PB tangs...

I agree with you. I did once try to add some planarians and isopods that I found in a river to my freshwater systems. I think my betta fish ate them all! >D

 

[Steven Nelson]

Paul and I may diverge in a few respects, but I’ve been a proponent of naturalistic systems for decades.

I run two 180g systems - a mixed reef, and a FOWLR (not to disrespect my 8g nano). Both systems are intensly biological using deep sand/aggregate base with a number of burrowing gobies and snails. I lost track long ago of poundage of rock, but the tanks both have thick walls and mounds of rock -around 300lb of calciferous media.

The reef sump has a dense mangrove stand at stage 1, and a thick cheto mat in the next section, with another 100 lbs or so of rock/rubble/muck substrata. Whatever wants to live there, let it be. It’s a rich pod farm, with scads of sponges, worms, feather dusters, a scant few snails and hermies. I run a small carbon reactor and another small phosban reactor at the end of this sump chamber before things move to stage 2, where a large skimmer works away in a another chamber housing digital sensors, and then the skimmer return goes directly into the return chamber where a carbon sock sits by the return pump. The flow rate is low and slow through the sump system.

The tank has small circulating pumps dropped along the back/bottom of the rock wall to prevent dead pockets and then large Koralia-type circulators arrayed around the perimeter.
I run a cannister with carbon and floss full time, as well.
I tend to let carbon go biological, not changing the socks, reactors or cannisters at the same time.
I run Kessil LEDs and have a 9 stage RO/DI system and mixing station. I try to run the system at 84f at least 3 days a week.
The reef has an auto doser that drips in Randy’s Recipe, and I dose iron, manganese, strontium and molybdenum weekly, along with a few ml of VitaChem.

The reef is teeming with macro life, despite being heavily populated with tangs, filefilsh, pygmy angels, wrasses, copperbands, etc, etc..
The inverts are plating corals and sponges, zooanthid colonies, shrooms, leathers, frogspawn, etc..
I haven’t had to QT a fish in years, and sick fish actually tend to get better when introduced to the system. I’m not obsessive about feeding, because the system itself provides so much food, I frequently harvest wads of cheto out of the sump - aiptasia and all - and shred it up like salad for the tangs.

The FOWLR system is less elaborate - just a big, 3 stage tank with a rock chamber, a cheto farm and sponges before the return pump, and a carbon cannister. This tank gets regular top off with a monthly W/C.
Neither tank gets much intervention, otherwise. I have a Koran Angel that was mauled by an eel when it was a juvie - it’s got a few scars, but healed nicely and is now a healthy adult. I have no reservations about adding animals directly to any of my tanks. I have a hospital tank that’s got cobwebs in it. I don’t like stressing animals with excessively-long acclimations, dips or drugs. I consider stress to be a major contributor to disease and mortality, and prefer to provide the most naturalistic habitat possible to minimize that stress and maintain stability.

I’ve been keeping tropical for more than 50 years - marine for more that 40.
In the days of fluorescent lamps, UG filters and copper immersions, everything died of ‘Ick’ within days or weeks of introduction.
I worked for a wholesaler at one time, with 8000 gal of saltwater to splash around in.
I ultimately quit keeping marine tanks because the mortality in the trade was horrific. I love the ocean and all her life, and felt that the fish trade was immoral.

It was years later when I took interest in the successes of captive breeding and coral propagation, and began reef keeping again in earnest. I have run sterile systems and just about every other configuration under the sun. My FOWLR is 12 years old, and the reef is roughly the same. There are animals in both tanks that were among the original critters - still thriving.
I’m not an evangelist for any particular method - I see people doing amazing things that were considered impossible not long ago. This is just the way my own direction has evolved, and it’s highly successful.
The nano is just a scaled downversion of the reef tank, minus the mangroves, reactors or skimmer. It’s similarly a rock/cheto sump system with deep sand and scads of macro life.

I’m constantly chastizing my significant other to keep her paws out of it and leave it be! The less screwing around the better. I try to tell her the three things I actually know: Less is more, too slow is still too fast, and nature knows best.

 

[fishybizzness]

Paul and I may diverge in a few respects, but I’ve been a proponent of naturalistic systems for decades.

I run two 180g systems - a mixed reef, and a FOWLR (not to disrespect my 8g nano). Both systems are intensly biological using deep sand/aggregate base with a number of burrowing gobies and snails. I lost track long ago of poundage of rock, but the tanks both have thick walls and mounds of rock -around 300lb of calciferous media.

The reef sump has a dense mangrove stand at stage 1, and a thick cheto mat in the next section, with another 100 lbs or so of rock/rubble/muck substrata. Whatever wants to live there, let it be. It’s a rich pod farm, with scads of sponges, worms, feather dusters, a scant few snails and hermies. I run a small carbon reactor and another small phosban reactor at the end of this sump chamber before things move to stage 2, where a large skimmer works away in a another chamber housing digital sensors, and then the skimmer return goes directly into the return chamber where a carbon sock sits by the return pump. The flow rate is low and slow through the sump system.

The tank has small circulating pumps dropped along the back/bottom of the rock wall to prevent dead pockets and then large Koralia-type circulators arrayed around the perimeter.
I run a cannister with carbon and floss full time, as well.
I tend to let carbon go biological, not changing the socks, reactors or cannisters at the same time.
I run Kessil LEDs and have a 9 stage RO/DI system and mixing station. I try to run the system at 84f at least 3 days a week.
The reef has an auto doser that drips in Randy’s Recipe, and I dose iron, manganese, strontium and molybdenum weekly, along with a few ml of VitaChem.

The reef is teeming with macro life, despite being heavily populated with tangs, filefilsh, pygmy angels, wrasses, copperbands, etc, etc..
The inverts are plating corals and sponges, zooanthid colonies, shrooms, leathers, frogspawn, etc..
I haven’t had to QT a fish in years, and sick fish actually tend to get better when introduced to the system. I’m not obsessive about feeding, because the system itself provides so much food, I frequently harvest wads of cheto out of the sump - aiptasia and all - and shred it up like salad for the tangs.

The FOWLR system is less elaborate - just a big, 3 stage tank with a rock chamber, a cheto farm and sponges before the return pump, and a carbon cannister. This tank gets regular top off with a monthly W/C.
Neither tank gets much intervention, otherwise. I have a Koran Angel that was mauled by an eel when it was a juvie - it’s got a few scars, but healed nicely and is now a healthy adult. I have no reservations about adding animals directly to any of my tanks. I have a hospital tank that’s got cobwebs in it. I don’t like stressing animals with excessively-long acclimations, dips or drugs. I consider stress to be a major contributor to disease and mortality, and prefer to provide the most naturalistic habitat possible to minimize that stress and maintain stability.

I’ve been keeping tropical for more than 50 years - marine for more that 40.
In the days of fluorescent lamps, UG filters and copper immersions, everything died of ‘Ick’ within days or weeks of introduction.
I worked for a wholesaler at one time, with 8000 gal of saltwater to splash around in.
I ultimately quit keeping marine tanks because the mortality in the trade was horrific. I love the ocean and all her life, and felt that the fish trade was immoral.

It was years later when I took interest in the successes of captive breeding and coral propagation, and began reef keeping again in earnest. I have run sterile systems and just about every other configuration under the sun. My FOWLR is 12 years old, and the reef is roughly the same. There are animals in both tanks that were among the original critters - still thriving.
I’m not an evangelist for any particular method - I see people doing amazing things that were considered impossible not long ago. This is just the way my own direction has evolved, and it’s highly successful.
The nano is just a scaled downversion of the reef tank, minus the mangroves, reactors or skimmer. It’s similarly a rock/cheto sump system with deep sand and scads of macro life.

I’m constantly chastizing my significant other to keep her paws out of it and leave it be! The less screwing around the better. I try to tell her the three things I actually know: Less is more, too slow is still too fast, and nature knows best.

I wish you and Paul were my next door neighbors!

 

[Subsea]

Also the eagle represents wisdom one of God's attributes.

My brother,

Smart is overrated. My youngest daughter was much smarter than the the oldest, according to aptitude test. Melissa, the older, worked hard in school and inspired Beauregard Parish School Board to designate her as student representative at school board meetings. As a National Merit Scholar she went to Baylor on a full academic scholarship. Andrea’s journey was so much differrent. Her extra gift of smart lead her on a different journey that was an uphill battle for 20 years.

Smart + Experience equals Knowledge

Knowledge + Wisdom equal Truth.

Truth is Always Truth, it is not relative to individual interpretation. Individual interpretation is projection of invidual bias which is a product of our previous experiences.

Ode to the Universe
I spent four 90 day tours in Cambodia as a crewchief on Puff the Magic Dragon with one company of
82 Airborne Rangers and one squadron of AC47 we knew what we were about.

We were not the tip of the spear. “We Were the Spear” and the Truth was, we brought
“Hell to the Kamer Rouge”

When Nixon said there were no US boots on the ground in Cambodia , we laughed and asked for new moccasins. Nixon had to make concessions to get Hanoi back to the table at Paris Peace Talks. When those concessions did not work, the USAF sent in an amarda of B52 over Hanoi. Then Hanoi came to the Peace Table.

My second oldest brother was a pilot on C123 Provider from 1968-72. Those Airmen laughed and said,
“The Fall Never Hurt Anyone, it was the sudden stop. As a short landing strip dirt runway aircraft, the Provider brought in supplies and carried out the wounded. Robert saved lives in Vietnam.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_C-123_Provider
During the War in Vietnam, the C-123 was used to deliver supplies, to evacuate the wounded, and also used to spray Agent Orange.


.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Pl

My brother,

Smart is overrated. My youngest daughter was much smarter than the the oldest, according to aptitude test. Melissa, the older, worked hard in school and inspired Beauregard Parish School Board to designate her as student representative at school board meetings. As a National Merit Scholar she went to Baylor on a full academic scholarship. Andrea’s journey was so much differrent. Her extra gift of smart lead her on a different journey that was an uphill battle for 20 years.

Smart + Experience equals Knowledge

Knowledge + Wisdom equal Truth.

Truth is Always Truth, it is not relative to individual interpretation. Individual interpretation is projection of invidual bias which is a product of our previous experiences.

Ode to the Universe
I spent four 90 day tours in Cambodia as a crewchief on Puff the Magic Dragon with one company of
82 Airborne Rangers and one squadron of AC47 we knew what we were about.

We were not the tip of the spear. “We Were the Spear” and the Truth was, we brought
“Hell to the Kamer Rouge”

When Nixon said there were no US boots on the ground in Cambodia , we laughed and asked for new moccasins. Nixon had to make concessions to get Hanoi back to the table at Paris Peace Talks. When those concessions did not work, the USAF sent in an amarda of B52 over Hanoi. Then Hanoi came to the Peace Table.

My second oldest brother was a pilot on C123 Provider from 1968-72. Those Airmen laughed and said,
“The Fall Never Hurt Anyone, it was the sudden stop. As a short landing strip dirt runway aircraft, the Provider brought in supplies and carried out the wounded. Robert saved lives in Vietnam.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_C-123_Provider
During the War in Vietnam, the C-123 was used to deliver supplies, to evacuate the wounded, and also used to spray Agent Orange.


.

Thanks for sharing. Chief

 

[Paul B]

2000 posts!! Congratulations

Is there some sort of prize for that? Maybe a trip to Tahiti or even Bayonne New Jersey.

and also used to spray Agent Orange.

They tell me all the Agent Orange is encapsulated in my lungs along with all the asbestos I ingested. I guess they are cancelling each other out.

So far I didn't croak, but about half the guys I served with already passed away from the stuff.

My tank is very minimal. Just a skimmer, reverse UG filter and some powerheads. Can't get much more minimal than that. Oh I forgot the algae scrubber. I really need to clean that thing today, and my skimmer is slightly clogged as it isn't making many bubbles. Must be a big amphipod or bristle worm clogging the Venturi.

Hopefully I can get to it today. I have been building some very cool Steam Punk stuff for a Gallery and need a few pieces. I want to get my name out there so I can impress Christie Brinkley who doesn't live to far away.

 

[Subsea]

Until last night, I did not know that Robert also sprayed Agent Orange to defoliate the jungle. He died from those complications 10 years ago. In an effort to protect our soldiers, we removed hiding places for ambush and sprayed pestilence on our own people. Nobody Wins at War.

I put some of my brothers ashes in my garden. Let’s hope that Agent Orange grows red tomatoes. I already have Orange Chard in the Winter Garden.

__________________
As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance,
our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey

 

[Rybren]

Sorry to hear about your brother. War is hell.

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Is there some sort of prize for that? Maybe a trip to Tahiti or even Bayonne New Jersey.



They tell me all the Agent Orange is encapsulated in my lungs along with all the asbestos I ingested. I guess they are cancelling each other out.

So far I didn't croak, but about half the guys I served with already passed away from the stuff.

My tank is very minimal. Just a skimmer, reverse UG filter and some powerheads. Can't get much more minimal than that. Oh I forgot the algae scrubber. I really need to clean that thing today, and my skimmer is slightly clogged as it isn't making many bubbles. Must be a big amphipod or bristle worm clogging the Venturi.

Hopefully I can get to it today. I have been building some very cool Steam Punk stuff for a Gallery and need a few pieces. I want to get my name out there so I can impress Christie Brinkley who doesn't live to far away.

Reminds me of Berlin filtration. I feel old now.

 

[Subsea]

I normally say algae filtration was mastered 5000 years ago by the Chinese but I think the real master at algae filtration is Cynobacteria and that happened 4.5 billion years ago, when Earths athmosphere was methane & sulfur.

In a reducing chemistry enviroment with Zero oxygen, Cynobacteria converted an athmosphere that was methane & sulfur into oxygen & carbon dioxide and water.

I do not need Cynobacteria as an aerobic digester in my reef tank. I do not need facultative bacteria to perform denitrification. For those things, I feed the tank and give algae a hand.

I give algae a hand with “Algae filtration on Steroids”.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/aquaclear-experiment-in-mariculture.545938/

 

[Subsea]

Sorry to hear about your brother. War is hell.

I have a Band of Brothers that stretches around the Earth into God’s Kingdom!!!

https://www.iheart.com/artist/hank-williams-jr-120862/?cmp=ios_share

https://www.iheart.com/artist/hank-williams-jr-120862/?cmp=ios_share

 

[Paul B]

Sub, You have a produce stand there. My algae from my scrubber looks more like a pile of sludge and peanut butter.

 

[Subsea]

Sub, You have a produce stand there. My algae from my scrubber looks more like a pile of sludge and peanut butter.

I have been practicing algae filtrationfor 35 years.

When I first blogged on hobby forums about “red ogo”, I mentioned eating it straight from the tank and a chef from Kansas City asked “what about the pods”.

Without hesitating I said sushi! I heard him laugh from Kansas.

Check out this HOB refugium. I replacedreef 60W lighting bar at 12K kelvin color rendition with three 15W 5K Par 38 lamps

Note the mussel in the last picture, with three differrent types of amphipods.

 

[Frogger]

Note the mussel in the last picture, with three differrent types of amphipods.

Those are some hefty healthy amphipods, if they get any bigger you may want to barbecue them up and include them in your cray-fish parties

 

[Paul B]

I see. You also have three times the light in your scrubber than I do.
I temporarily threw the thing together after I moved here and need to add more light.
But It does grow a lot of stuff, nothing I would eat though.

 

[Subsea]

I see. You also have three times the light in your scrubber than I do.
I temporarily threw the thing together after I moved here and need to add more light.
But It does grow a lot of stuff, nothing I would eat though.

With respect to light intensity, when I saw BRS TV video series on algae as priary nutrient control their light soure for a 25G refugium cost $1000 and measured 1750 PAR. That intensity would burn Spring tomatoes here in Austin. Algae like coral can photoadapt. I have thrown a bucket of Chaetomorphy in outside grow out tanks exposed to 2000 PAR and watched it get sun burned after a day, then come back like gangbusters a week later.

I will make a case study with this 20G long tank. While not normally my mode of operation, it is being sterilized with bleach. Due to a particular strain of Cynobacteria coupled with lack of attention on my part, the tank crashed as witnessed by Green Sinularia being canabalized by Cynobacteria mat.

I will transition this tank into a macro algae lagoon with softy corals. As it is still the month of February here in Austin, I will adjust 300W heater to come on when temperature drops below 58 degrees. I will put a watt meter on heater only, so as to know what temperature control cost. I know algae will thrive. For softie, I will start with Xenia & GSP and maybe a flower or rock anemone.

 

[Subsea]

Mussel confusion.

Yesterday, I removed two mussels from freezer. One was broken up and feed to fish & shrimp & crabs & things. The second mussel was dropped whole into HOB refugium. That was the picture yesterday with pods crawling on it and in it. Today, that same bivalve looks to be burying in the sand with shell halves shut closed.

Paul,
Can these things freeze and come back, because the one that I dropped in 30 minutes ago, initially floated than sank to bottom and bivalves are open with internal stuff moving about. I can see the foot probing about.

 

[Paul B]

They survive freezing here all winter. The rocks are covered in them so much that you can't see any rock. They are still there alive and well in the summer so I guess freezing just makes them giddy.

 

[William Buchanan]

Just the one?[emoji848]

Well the “W” came today! [emoji106]

I put 9% and 2 catalyst. The chart on the box recommended 12% and 2 but I’m going to ease into it. It had a pretty good stream of “smoke” trailing out of it for a few hours but I can’t see anything coming out now.
It has it’s own stall in the barn now.