The biggest surprise ever, what do I do now?

[road102]

Hello

I bought a red sponge in my LFS, and because I found small crabs I posted this: Is this crab safe? What is it? in the Hitchhiker & Critter ID section.
Well, while trying to figure out how to dip a sponge without having contact with the air and trying to catch the crabs I saw the entire base of the sponge moving

...it is a big sea clam, and it's alive!! OMG

What do I do know, should I place the clam with the mouth facing the water flow? if it dies will be a big dead animal in my tank....


will the coral dip kill the clamb?, at this point I'm about to place it in the sump and forget about this sponge

help...

​

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

@ISpeakForTheSeas
@i cant think

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Hello

I bought a red sponge in my LFS, and because I found small crabs I posted this: Is this crab safe? What is it? in the Hitchhiker & Critter ID section.
Well, while trying to figure out how to dip a sponge without having contact with the air and trying to catch the crabs I saw the entire base of the sponge moving

...it is a big sea clam, and it's alive!! OMG

What do I do know, should I place the clam with the mouth facing the water flow? if it dies will be a big dead animal in my tank....

help...

​

View attachment 3131078

No idea what to tell you, but very cool find!!

 

[Fishy888]

I would give my eye teeth for one of those! Phyto is your friend here I would think.

 

[KrisReef]

The sump should be fine for everyone.

 

[ISpeakForTheSeas]

First off - super cool hitchhiker there.

Second, with both a sponge and clam, I’d skip the dip just to be safe for the sponge and bivalve - I don’t know if the dip would harm them or not, but I’d hate to see them die from it if would (maybe others with more experience will know if it’s safe or not). So, I’d say to not dip them and if you’re worried about other hitchhikers/diseases, then I’d put it in an observational QT (45+ days at 81+F minimum for disease; Jay Hemdal has been recommending 60 days lately for most reef tank fallow periods). Your sump would probably work for the hitchhikers QT, but probably not for disease.

Third, I really need to study up on bivalve ID more. Unfortunately, without knowing the specific bivalve you have here, I can only give generic advice:

To try and keep it alive, I'd offer it a good portion of Isochrysis galbana (T-Iso), Chaetoceros sp., and/or Thalassiosira sp. phytoplankton daily.

It would probably also like having plenty of phyto (I'd recommend Isochrysis galbana/T-Iso and a Chaetoceros sp. or a blend containing one or both of these in particular if you want to try and add phyto to feed the clam). I'm not sure what flow these guys would prefer, but I'd guess a moderate flow would be best (enough to carry food for them to feed on, but not so much that it can't send out byssal threads).

Based on how the sponge is situated on that bivalve, I’d guess the bivalve is a rock-dweller rather than a sand-dweller; so I’d try placing it mouth either toward or sideways toward the flow (basically just not facing away from it entirely) while keeping the sponge sticking up.

In the possibly vain hopes of being able to get an ID on this for you:

From what I've heard, oysters and scallops both lack siphons - so if your specimens have siphons, they're extremely unlikely to be oysters or scallops.

Good pic of the mouth there - do you think you could get some top-down shots of the shell so we can see the whole thing? If you can show the hinge of the bivalve, that'd be helpful too.

Fourth and last, a massive sponge info dump (I’m sorry, it’s kind of daunting - I need to go through and organize/condense it one of these days):

The info I’ve compiled on sponges so far:

Most sponges that I’ve looked into primarily consume Dissolved Organic Matter (DOM - sometimes called Dissolved Organic Carbon, or DOC, which is actually a component of DOM) and specific kinds of bacteria (which kinds vary at least a little from one sponge to another). Most of them seem to have no preference for where their DOC comes from, but they have a preference for algal-derived Dissolved Organic Nitrogen (i.e. DON produced by algae). Giant Barrel Sponges and some Boring Sponges have had their diets analyzed, and they primarily consume DOM (~80% of their total diet, with the remaining ~20% coming from Particulate Organic Matter (POM - primarily phytoplankton and bacteria, though, as mentioned above, bacteria is taken in much higher quantities than phyto). This ratio of approximately 80/20 seems to be pretty typical(though it can vary from what I've seen by +/-15% or so one way or another) for most sponges from what I can find.

Unfortunately, we don’t have an easy, hobbyist way to measure DOM, DOC, DON, or POM (or POC or PON) that I’m aware of, so we don't really have any way to determine if the sponges are getting enough food consistently to thrive (to say nothing of measuring the amounts of specific bacteria in our tanks), but there you have it.

If you do some reading on sponge keeping here on R2R, you'll probably find pretty quickly that most people recommend low lighting low flow for sponges (exceptions for photosynthetic sponges), but the truth is this also depends on the sponge species. The most common photosynthetic sponges in the hobby are the photosynthetic plating sponges (like you can find/buy on LiveAquaria's site), but there are quite a few other sponges that are photosynthetic too (such as Aplysina cauliformis, for example), and these would benefit from high lighting. Similarly, some species of sponge do best in very high flow areas, including high flow areas with laminar flow (a lot of people talk about random flow on the site, which would be called turbulent flow, as they're trying to get the water moving basically randomly throughout the tank - laminar flow is just a continuous flow that doesn't change, so the water keeps going the same direction nonstop and there's nothing random about it). If you're not sure if the sponge is photosynthetic or not, you can try starting it in one lighting (such as low lighting), see how it does and then compare it to a different lighting (moderate or high) and figure out its needs from that. Same with the flow. Light will probably be the most important part for photosynthetic species and the food/flow the most important for NPS species - some people have found stirring up their sand to be an effective food source for sponges, likely because it puts bacteria and DOM into the water column. It’s probably safest to start low light/flow and move up, rather than starting high and moving lower.

Some sponges do well in some tanks but not in others for no discernible reason, and some some sponges travel well while other sponges don't. Plus, sometimes a sponge will basically disintegrate into a ton of tiny pieces and look like it's dying, but it'll then proceed to grow and live on afterwards. Similarly, some sponges grow invasively while others grow incredibly slowly, so a lot of keeping these guys at this point really just depends on the luck of the draw (so to speak).

Just a note here, some species of sponge (such as some Sycon spp. - pineapple sponges) do in fact eat noteworthy (for the sponge, not necessarily for the tank they're in) levels of small phyto species.

The only real advice I can offer for sure for this specific sponge (Clathria (Clathria) prolifera) is that it eats Isochrysis galbana (T-Iso),* so offering it some regularly may prove beneficial. Beyond that, it grows on solid surfaces (like rocks, dock pilings, etc.), it is often found in the intertidal zone, and it's said that it can handle high brackish salinities (reportedly as low as 15ppt).

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/24429519_Comparison_of_the_Bacterial_Communities_of_Wild_and_Captive_Sponge_Clathria_prolifera_from_the_Chesapeake_Bay

To add to the above, knowing that bacteria and DOC are important, some people might recommend carbon dosing and/or turning off a UV if you have one running so as to encourage bacterial population growth (you may need to be careful if you try this though, as too big of a bacteria bloom could cause issues in your tank).

For general sponge health, I've heard good things from people dosing ChaetoGro, and some phyto dosing and/or macro in the tank may help encourage sponge health/growth too.

Also, a couple of things pertaining to sponges and silicates - most sponges do need them, so it may be a good idea (as mentioned) to dose silicates if you're trying to promote sponge growth.

Should you decide to try and keep any of the sponges you're interested in, take note if you can of the sponge's surroundings and the flow it's in - if you can't do that, the link below may help you figure out sediment and flow preferences for any sponges you want to keep (the graphical abstract close to the top is a visual representation of the info presented).

No taxonomy needed: Sponge functional morphologies inform about environmental conditions

The need to study sponge communities in comparatively inaccessible habitats led to a sponge classification system that relies on the strictly function…

www.sciencedirect.com

Most sponges do, yes. If there’s a high level of silicates and a sufficient amount of food for the sponges (including things like Dissolved Organic Matter, bacteria, phytoplankton, and some Particulate Organic Matter), then you may see a population boom with sponges.

 

[road102]

First off - super cool hitchhiker there.

Second, with both a sponge and clam, I’d skip the dip just to be safe for the sponge and bivalve - I don’t know if the dip would harm them or not, but I’d hate to see them die from it if would (maybe others with more experience will know if it’s safe or not). So, I’d say to not dip them and if you’re worried about other hitchhikers/diseases, then I’d put it in an observational QT (45+ days at 81+F minimum for disease; Jay Hemdal has been recommending 60 days lately for most reef tank fallow periods). Your sump would probably work for the hitchhikers QT, but probably not for disease.

Third, I really need to study up on bivalve ID more. Unfortunately, without knowing the specific bivalve you have here, I can only give generic advice:


Based on how the sponge is situated on that bivalve, I’d guess the bivalve is a rock-dweller rather than a sand-dweller; so I’d try placing it mouth either toward or sideways toward the flow (basically just not facing away from it entirely) while keeping the sponge sticking up.

In the possibly vain hopes of being able to get an ID on this for you:


Fourth and last, a massive sponge info dump (I’m sorry, it’s kind of daunting - I need to go through and organize/condense it one of these days):

Here are some extra photos I have, I decided to place them in a glass inside the sump so the crab cant escape for now.
I think I will release them in the sump during the week.

Clam seems to be happy opening quite often (about 5mm)

 

[KrisReef]

Here are some extra photos I have, I decided to place them in a glass inside the sump so the crab cant escape for now.
I think I will release them in the sump during the week.

Clam seems to be happy opening quite often (about 5mm)

View attachment 3131185 View attachment 3131186

Someone mentioned that the clam (and the sponge) are filter feeders and that phytoplankton is a great food source. Hopefully the glass will allow some water exchange with the sump to keep them fed and oxygenated.

I don't know, but suspect that the crab may be living in the sponge and doing sponge maintanance like the little acro crabs do for corals? Just a guess. If it sticks close to the sponge and doesn't venture far from it that would make me think this even more?

I second what @ISpeakForTheSeas said about the awesomeness of a clam/hitchhiker. If the sponge ever grows enough to frag I would like a chunk if you are willing to ship? Thanks for posting and the nice pictures. I hope these thrive for you.

 

[i cant think]

Here are some extra photos I have, I decided to place them in a glass inside the sump so the crab cant escape for now.
I think I will release them in the sump during the week.

Clam seems to be happy opening quite often (about 5mm)

View attachment 3131185 View attachment 3131186

Can you get a mantle photo?
This isn’t a common clam from Tridacna but the mantle is the easiest way to ID clams. I don’t believe all clams are photo synthetic but I know they don’t mind light so for now rest her in the rocks and allow her to settle.

How big is the tank?

 

[i cant think]

After looking closer at the photos of the sponge I believe that you have a Clathria species. These seem to be more sensitive so I would avoid the dip altogether.

 

[twentyleagues]

You don't want to dip clams or sponges. Most sponges are non photosynthetic my guess is that the "clam" is also. Crab is probably a commensal invert on the sponge. Best place for these since you have them now would probably be in the sump in a high flow area before filtration to hopefully get enough food.

I had a non photo tank years ago that was the first stop in my basement sump for two reef tanks upstairs. All the water from that system went through it. Even with about 30 fish and both full of corals and daily coral feedings and phyto every other day I struggled with these types of sponges. They require a ton of food and stuff we don't tend to feed on a regular basis. They'd live for maybe a year and start to wither. Dendros, sun corals, rhyzos, all did well. Non photosynthetic gorgs didn't do great for me either.

 

[i cant think]

You don't want to dip clams or sponges. Most sponges are non photosynthetic my guess is that the "clam" is also. Crab is probably a commensal invert on the sponge. Best place for these since you have them now would probably be in the sump in a high flow area before filtration to hopefully get enough food.

Whilst most sponges are NPS, they can still be found under certain levels of PAR, they need to be in high flow areas with just enough light to get their prey - Zooplankton which often feeds from Phyto. Without light to grow the Phyto the corals rarely have enough food.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Super cool!! I don't have any advice to add, but those are beautiful hitchhikers!

 

[nuxx]

Very very cool

 

[road102]

Hello!!,, end of story, I have returned this super cool piece to my LFS

Thanks for the help

 

[KrisReef]

Hello!!,, end of story, I have returned this super cool piece to my LFS

Thanks for the help

Not so fast. Do you know if they ship?

 

[Fishy888]

Not so fast. Do you know if they ship?

I want to know if they ship and if they get pieces like that very often.

 

[road102]

you can contact them: https://www.barrierreefstore.com/