Tank black out question

[Alabamareef]

I have a 180 reef, SPS and LPS with a hair algae, HA, outbreak. A 180 gallon tank, Reef Octopus XS200, fuge, ATO, Carbon reactor, that I was also running GFO mixed, Ca Reactor, Kalk stirrer, bio pellet reactor, 2 MP 40s, 2 Tunze 6105s, all set up with an Apex. Vertex Illumina 260/1500 LED's. Coral Pro Salt. All water parameters good and confirmed through a third party water test, aquariumwatertesting.com. Algae confirmed with a third party maintenance pro. 6 stage RODI station also.

Tank has been up for almost 3 years. I've always been an advocate of husbandry, no band aids. I have lots of LR and about a 2 inch sand bed. Long story short and several rookie mistakes, to many changes to fast, Iron supplement for color, which I think started the issue. but the level is within normal limits- confirmed, a lack of husbandry, mainly vacuuming the sand and turkey basting the cracks, and a light programming upgrade issue, which exacerbated the HA, I've now got a HA plague. Wow, I can see how this runs lots of people out of the hobby. You clean everything and two days later looks the same or worse, very frustrating. Close to 4 years in the hobby never had it. So its been close to two months now and I've had to watch all my acros die, great to have friends in the hobby to take my frags to replenish, and this HA take over, no correlation, coral death another story.

I've cleaned out everything under my tank, sump, reactors, reservoir. Done several water changes, one 45 gallon change and weekly 5 gallon changes, P04 0, Nitrates 5, Ca 450, Alk 8.3 dkh, but this has been my results through this process, confirmed. Changed out the filters on the RODI, which already had 0 TDS, just trying to be safe. Also hired a Pro who was at the house yesterday. He cleaned everything very good and opened up the aquascape to keep the detritus from settling between the cracks. I've still have several RBTA, BTA, shrimp, three tangs a couple of clowns, CUC, and some LPS. I thought after all the filter changes, by the way I have filter socks I change weekly. no sponges or bio balls, changed my RODI cartridges, and had a Pro there yesterday I could black out my tank for a few days. I'm thinking that with all the cleaning and filter changes and opening the aquascape this may take away the nutrients and if I back that up with taking away the light source this may be the silver bullet, not a quick fix but a start in the right direction.

I'm guessing the HA is distorting my test results, NO3 and PO4, adding iron and on top of that my light issue was keeping my light on a very long time with unknown intensity, bingo, HA! Also the iron was stoped with the first sign of HA. If you've got this issue I feel for you. So my hope is the silver bullet. Do you think this may work and what is the time frame I'm safely able to keep my lights off and still keep my anemones and LPS alive?

 

[Alabamareef]

Also forgot to mention feeding during the black out. What's a good plan?

 

[RacinRevo0818]

Well excess nutrients are coming from some where to cause outbreak.

What are you feeding your tank?

You said 5 gallon water changes a week? In a 180 10% would be 18 gallons and with a hair algae problem I would go no less then 25g a week. Salt is cheap so do as much water changes as possible till you see an improvement. Also no matter what test you run on water as long as there is algae there is excess nutrients.

Is Bio pellet reactor return near your skimmer? If not that bacteria could be fueling your algae.

Might try and get a sea hare or another cuc member that do better with large areas of ha.

Best think to recommend is stop dosing additives, change as much water as possible and physically remove as much as you can.

And no I don't think the lights out will be your silver bullet!! Completely different algae your dealing with. I'm no expert and these are just my thoughts so please take what you can use. Best of luck

 

[Reefing Madness]

You sure you have HA and not Bryopsis? Big difference in how one is destroyed.
Lights out will take care of your current issue, you can feed the fish if you'd like. Keep an eye on your skimmer, as this is where all the algae die off is going, it will be working overtime on this. If those parameters are where you think they are it shouldn't come back, if they are not, it more than likely will, not a sure thing, but possible.
You've certainly done your work on the tank though.

 

[Alabamareef]

Well excess nutrients are coming from some where to cause outbreak.

What are you feeding your tank?

You said 5 gallon water changes a week? In a 180 10% would be 18 gallons and with a hair algae problem I would go no less then 25g a week. Salt is cheap so do as much water changes as possible till you see an improvement. Also no matter what test you run on water as long as there is algae there is excess nutrients.

Is Bio pellet reactor return near your skimmer? If not that bacteria could be fueling your algae.

Might try and get a sea hare or another cuc member that do better with large areas of ha.

Best think to recommend is stop dosing additives, change as much water as possible and physically remove as much as you can.

And no I don't think the lights out will be your silver bullet!! Completely different algae your dealing with. I'm no expert and these are just my thoughts so please take what you can use. Best of luck

Feeding frozen food and I hand feed. really making sure everything is gone. Saying that when my tank was full of acros I would feed a lot. At this time no HA and all levels were great.

Yea 5 gallons a week is low. 10 gallons would be no problem

yes bio pellet reactor is directly into the inlet of the skimmer

Sea Hare, Pencil Urchin x 4, and Fighting Conch X 2, Turbo snails, too many to count, and lots of other CUC stuff

I've went to the motto, Keep it Simple.

 

[Alabamareef]

You sure you have HA and not Bryopsis? Big difference in how one is destroyed.
Lights out will take care of your current issue, you can feed the fish if you'd like. Keep an eye on your skimmer, as this is where all the algae die off is going, it will be working overtime on this. If those parameters are where you think they are it shouldn't come back, if they are not, it more than likely will, not a sure thing, but possible.
You've certainly done your work on the tank though.

Thanks I'm no algae expert so I'm not 100% on the type. But from what I've been told it's HA. A few weeks ago i did pull out all the rock, except my anemone island- see photo- and cleaned it and moved around the sand. Seemed like it may have gone through some small cycle because the algae looked a little different, like diatoms.

Old Photo Before the whole right side was full of large and small Acro colonies, UGGGGG

 

[Alabamareef]

Saw some pictures of Bryopsis. Definitely not that.....

 

[808jaymakoa]

Doesn't peroxide dosing help kill hair algae.

 

[Alabamareef]

Doesn't peroxide dosing help kill hair algae.

I've heard it works but not practical in this situation. Another discussion, not for this thread. but thanks for the info maybe it will helpful to others.

 

[Alabamareef]

Any new thoughts?

 

[Reefing Madness]

kill it off, see if it reappears. From what your doing, I couldn't guess how its grwoing anyways. Unless your GFO is exhausting quickly and your not changing it fast enough.

 

[808jaymakoa]

I've heard it works but not practical in this situation. Another discussion, not for this thread. but thanks for the info maybe it will helpful to others.

Just curious but why would it not be practical. Because the size of your system?

 

[Alabamareef]

Just curious but why would it not be practical. Because the size of your system?
From what I've read it's more of a spot treatment or one rock at a time. Almost all my rock have. I've also heard it can give you an ammonia reading. If I'm not able to kill it off by starvation guess that may be an option later. I'll just have to get more educated on it. Hope I did not sound to harsh and I really appreciate your looking this over.

 

[Alabamareef]

kill it off, see if it reappears. From what your doing, I couldn't guess how its grwoing anyways. Unless your GFO is exhausting quickly and your not changing it fast enough.

Right now I took the GFO out and just running carbon, as of 3 days ago, but in the am when I get home I'll add more to help with the starvation process. Thanks.

 

[Damon]

Tough call, but question.. Well your fish eat pellets readily? And also, because of what had taken place, more than likely, your facing residual effects. That's something that is going to take time to resolve probably. It's hard with hair because the two things that worked for me has been phosguard to pull it quick and then gfo keeps it there for me. If you had a large diameter reactor(like 6 to 8 inches), it would probably be easy to gfo it quick. But your gfo really could be expiring that fast.

The black out, not too confident on that, simply because I tried it with older systems with no success.

I honestly, think you should try and do controlled accelerated algea growth in the sump(trust this, it works well naturally). Throw a ton more light into your fuge along with the gfo running. If you don't have cheato in there already, it's going to take a bit too get it going into full swing(you should see faster growth in two weeks at the most). Let the cheato grow into a dense mat and only prune when it's too thick and becomes like a secondary filter sponge. Then, when you do prune, only do a quarter at a time to keep it growing. It won't take long to basically pull everything. You need a horticultural cfl bulb(I used 200 and 250 watt) and reflector. Your going to spend maybe a little over 100, but this, will pull everything that your tests will not detect.

These are the components you will need below. You can buy the complete system, but you want to specify that you want the "warm" bulb. These are hydroponic lights for growing vegetables. More light strength and penetration. I used mine initially to grow 2 foot tall tomatoes plants in a 2x2 area, so they are strong! But they don't get hot like halide or sodium hid lights.

http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=8399

The reflector alone:
http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=125#tabs-1

A cheaper alternative:
http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=8892

The one thing to keep in mind is that the more light, the faster you'll grow algae and the more nutrient pulling power. I have tried finding something personally in the aquarium hobby that comes close to growing algae like these, but I have not as of yet. My growth rates were a full 5 gallon bucket of algea every 14 days. That still left me with enough to keep the culture going easily.

Note2 on Tap Pro

 

[Damon]

Oh, and with this, you don't have to black out anything. Just run the light for at least 14 hours initially. You can then adjust to your liking.

I always ran them reverse lighting of my display and because of the photosynthesis, pH always remained high in the system. Actually, some off the highest pH I ever had in my system to date.

I actually, after viewing these, am going to replace my led unit in my fuge with one of the 125 watt units for 70 dollars and then throw the third led fixture on my display tank.

Note2 on Tap Pro

 

[Alabamareef]

Damon, I do have a fuge with some macro in it. But can't touch the growth you've had. I like you idea and decided to go with the cheaper alternative, mainly for the size. Should fit right over my fuge. This is what I got.
Hydrofarm FLCDG125D Fluorowing Compact Fluorescent System w/CFL Bulb

by Hydrofarm
4.5 out of 5 stars See all reviews (152 customer reviews) | 22 answered questions

---

List Price: $64.99 Price: $56.61 You Save: $8.38 (13%) In Stock. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available. Want it Monday, Oct. 28? Order within 31 hrs 22 mins and choose One-Day Shipping at checkout. Details 12 new from $50.42 1 used from $53.24 Includes full daylight spectrum 125 watt compact fluorescent grow bulb Includes 120V 8' power cord Includes hanging hardware CSA certified fixture

 

[Alabamareef]

Thank you everyone for all the info. I'm going home this morning and getting my GFO back on line. Still doing the black out till Sat. Got a new fuge light to go over the sump, trying to spike my macro growth. I'll let ya'll know how everything goes next week.

Again thanks so much for everything and I'm still open to advice and ideas..........

 

[Damon]

Damon, I do have a fuge with some macro in it. But can't touch the growth you've had. I like you idea and decided to go with the cheaper alternative, mainly for the size. Should fit right over my fuge. This is what I got.
Hydrofarm FLCDG125D Fluorowing Compact Fluorescent System w/CFL Bulb

by Hydrofarm
4.5 out of 5 stars See all reviews (152 customer reviews) | 22 answered questions

---

List Price: $64.99 Price: $56.61 You Save: $8.38 (13%) In Stock. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available. Want it Monday, Oct. 28? Order within 31 hrs 22 mins and choose One-Day Shipping at checkout. Details 12 new from $50.42 1 used from $53.24 Includes full daylight spectrum 125 watt compact fluorescent grow bulb Includes 120V 8' power cord Includes hanging hardware CSA certified fixture

Sorry for just responding..

Yeah, that's the really nice thing about them. I had the sun system one, and I sat it right on top of my fuge(tank), with the cord nicely wrapped and going to the apex. The light level is amazing even with the 125. I think your going to be pleasantly surprised at what it does! Lol, seriously! Especially for the little coin you spend. And the nice thing, is you can always go up to a 200 by just buying the bulb.

But ok, if you, at some point decide you wish to do mangroves, or just don't want it sitting on the tank, the pulley system is great. And Amazon has them for cheap. But they grow pretty much anything rapidly as far as plants are concerned..

Note2 on Tap Pro

 

[beaslbob]

I didn't see or missed if you have macro algae in the system.

I would add some in a refugium or possibly even start an algae turf scrubber.

I would then do a black out with no feeding until the HA dies off.

And resume with less duration lighting and feeding and adjust to where corals thrive and the HA doesn't come back.

my .02