Switching Carbon Dosing Source

[flying4fish]

I've been vodka dosing for a few months. My nitrates went to zero but my phosphates remained around 0.25. I then started dosing nitrates, in hopes that phosphate would begin to drop. In the meantime my alkalinity spiked to 14 (I kept dosing 2-part, not knowing that the carbon dosing would also raise my alkalinity). I stopped my 2-part dosing and alkalinity is slowly falling (it's at 11 after 3-weeks). As a result I've lost some corals, and my phosphate is still high. I read about Elimi-NP, and I ordered some in hopes it will finally bring my phosphate level under control. It hasn't arrived yet, but when it does, do I need to start from scratch with the dosing (as per the instructions), or can I dose a higher amount because I'm already carbon dosing with vodka?

I have a very small reef tank (Red Sea Reefer 170) and if I could do it all over again I would have bought a larger system with a larger sump. Why? Because my sump is so small I don't have any room for a reactor. My skimmer takes all the space I have. I can't run GFO. I can't run a calcium reactor. No room for a roller. Options are very limited with limited space!

 

[blaxsun]

You can run GFO - just place it in a bag (after rinsing) in a high-flow area.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't know that the TM product is going to do anything better than dosing N and using standard organic carbon dosing materials, but I'd start back at the directions level because the organic is different in it.

 

[flying4fish]

You can run GFO - just place it in a bag (after rinsing) in a high-flow area.

Have you ever personally tried that? That was one of the first things I tried and it was very ineffective. It's hard to find a place with enough flow to make a difference, compared to the tumbling of the material in a reactor. I tried in a filter sock, in front of a powerhead in my sump, etc...it does drop phosphate much at all.

 

[flying4fish]

I don't know that the TM product is going to do anything better than dosing N and using standard organic carbon dosing materials, but I'd start back at the directions level because the organic is different in it.

It's not very expensive, so I'm game to try it. The vodka dosing was very good at dropping nitrates right to zero, but phosphates have not budged. But if the Elimi-NP does actually target specific bacteria, you're right...I should start from scratch.

 

[Miami Reef]

Have you ever personally tried that? That was one of the first things I tried and it was very ineffective. It's hard to find a place with enough flow to make a difference, compared to the tumbling of the material in a reactor. I tried in a filter sock, in front of a powerhead in my sump, etc...it does drop phosphate much at all.

GFO is guaranteed to work to remove phosphates. You just need to ideally keep it in a fluidized reactor, because if not, calcium carbonate will form around the iron oxide, making it ineffective.

If you want to use it in a media bag, mix it with activated carbon. In this case, you want to keep it in passive flow. It should not tumble with that method.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It's not very expensive, so I'm game to try it. The vodka dosing was very good at dropping nitrates right to zero, but phosphates have not budged. But if the Elimi-NP does actually target specific bacteria, you're right...I should start from scratch.

I don’t believe it is likely do what you are hoping it will, but let us know how it works out!

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

I've been vodka dosing for a few months. My nitrates went to zero but my phosphates remained around 0.25. I then started dosing nitrates, in hopes that phosphate would begin to drop. In the meantime my alkalinity spiked to 14 (I kept dosing 2-part, not knowing that the carbon dosing would also raise my alkalinity). I stopped my 2-part dosing and alkalinity is slowly falling (it's at 11 after 3-weeks). As a result I've lost some corals, and my phosphate is still high. I read about Elimi-NP, and I ordered some in hopes it will finally bring my phosphate level under control. It hasn't arrived yet, but when it does, do I need to start from scratch with the dosing (as per the instructions), or can I dose a higher amount because I'm already carbon dosing with vodka?

I have a very small reef tank (Red Sea Reefer 170) and if I could do it all over again I would have bought a larger system with a larger sump. Why? Because my sump is so small I don't have any room for a reactor. My skimmer takes all the space I have. I can't run GFO. I can't run a calcium reactor. No room for a roller. Options are very limited with limited space!

I have a reefer 170
While I wish both display & sump were bigger I managed to fit a skimmer, reactor & chaeto reactor in mine.what skimmer are you running?
The bubble Magus media reactor is worth a look.while small & a little rudimentary-it runs carbon & GFO well enough for the tanks needs

 

[blaxsun]

Have you ever personally tried that? That was one of the first things I tried and it was very ineffective. It's hard to find a place with enough flow to make a difference, compared to the tumbling of the material in a reactor. I tried in a filter sock, in front of a powerhead in my sump, etc...it does drop phosphate much at all.

Yes. I placed it in a pair of media baskets in my filter floss tray (the first two were filter socks).

 

[flying4fish]

I have a reefer 170
While I wish both display & sump were bigger I managed to fit a skimmer, reactor & chaeto reactor in mine.what skimmer are you running?
The bubble Magus media reactor is worth a look.while small & a little rudimentary-it runs carbon & GFO well enough for the tanks needs

I have a Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer. It takes up a lot of real estate in the sump. Do you have a smaller skimmer?

 

[Aquariumaddictuk]

I have a Bubble Magus Curve 5 skimmer. It takes up a lot of real estate in the sump. Do you have a smaller skimmer?

I have the curve 5.ive just removed my ALR1 so quite a lot of room now.it was a bit of a squeeze before!
The bubble Magus reactor is great for small sumps.cheap too

 

[JCOLE]

I've been vodka dosing for a few months. My nitrates went to zero but my phosphates remained around 0.25. I then started dosing nitrates, in hopes that phosphate would begin to drop. In the meantime my alkalinity spiked to 14 (I kept dosing 2-part, not knowing that the carbon dosing would also raise my alkalinity). I stopped my 2-part dosing and alkalinity is slowly falling (it's at 11 after 3-weeks). As a result I've lost some corals, and my phosphate is still high. I read about Elimi-NP, and I ordered some in hopes it will finally bring my phosphate level under control. It hasn't arrived yet, but when it does, do I need to start from scratch with the dosing (as per the instructions), or can I dose a higher amount because I'm already carbon dosing with vodka?

I have a very small reef tank (Red Sea Reefer 170) and if I could do it all over again I would have bought a larger system with a larger sump. Why? Because my sump is so small I don't have any room for a reactor. My skimmer takes all the space I have. I can't run GFO. I can't run a calcium reactor. No room for a roller. Options are very limited with limited space!

I use Elimi-NP from time to time and it does help to lower PO4. When you get them lower then you can switch to Bacto-Balance.

 

[Reefahholic]

I don't know that the TM product is going to do anything better than dosing N and using standard organic carbon dosing materials, but I'd start back at the directions level because the organic is different in it.

If you were to dose an organic carbon source, what do you feel is best? They all work a little differently it seems and have different effects on pH and nutrients.

I’m actually seeing really good results from 10x distilled Vodka that Cruz Arius recommended to me to fight Dino’s using his protocol. I felt it was way too aggressive for my tank and never did it, but I started using that vodka as a carbon source recently. Before the Vodka I was using Tropic Marin’s Organic Carbon line. I tired NP Bacto-Balance and Plus-NP. They were OK, but when I switched to the Vodka I noticed double the PE. Literally every coral in the tank put out more PE and My JF Tierra Del Fuego literally just keeps it PE out now 24/7 now. It’s insane!

Lately, I keep thinking about Vinegar also. Not sure which brand to use, but I want to see if there’s any major differences between the Vinegar and Vodka, and which yields better PE. I’m thinking about putting a little Sucrose in the Vinegar also. I just have to know for myself which source works the best.

I’m definitely a believer now after seeing what I described above. I can only assume that the acros are sucking up a ton of bacteria that are feeding them well. I haven’t fed any coral food, aminos, vitamins, etc…due to lingering Dino’s in the system so maybe the corals wouldn’t react the same in another system as they did in mine from Vodka dosing. Surely they weren’t starving, because I know they’re getting plenty of fish poop and some bacteria. My N&P levels definitely aren’t lacking. I just think they got way more bacteria to filter/eat and it made them very happy.

 

[flying4fish]

If you were to dose an organic carbon source, what do you feel is best? They all work a little differently it seems and have different effects on pH and nutrients.

I’m actually seeing really good results from 10x distilled Vodka that Cruz Arius recommended to me to fight Dino’s using his protocol. I felt it was way too aggressive for my tank and never did it, but I started using that vodka as a carbon source recently. Before the Vodka I was using Tropic Marin’s Organic Carbon line. I tired NP Bacto-Balance and Plus-NP. They were OK, but when I switched to the Vodka I noticed double the PE. Literally every coral in the tank put out more PE and My JF Tierra Del Fuego literally just keeps it PE out now 24/7 now. It’s insane!

Lately, I keep thinking about Vinegar also. Not sure which brand to use, but I want to see if there’s any major differences between the Vinegar and Vodka, and which yields better PE. I’m thinking about putting a little Sucrose in the Vinegar also. I just have to know for myself which source works the best.

I’m definitely a believer now after seeing what I described above. I can only assume that the acros are sucking up a ton of bacteria that are feeding them well. I haven’t fed any coral food, aminos, vitamins, etc…due to lingering Dino’s in the system so maybe the corals wouldn’t react the same in another system as they did in mine from Vodka dosing. Surely they weren’t starving, because I know they’re getting plenty of fish poop and some bacteria. My N&P levels definitely aren’t lacking. I just think they got way more bacteria to filter/eat and it made them very happy.

My experience with Vodka was actually quite good. Any and all unwanted algae, dinos, etc., were completely wiped out. My water became crystal clear. I did get some pink slime (bacteria) in my sump, but I backed off the dosage. My nitrates came down to the point where I have to dose nitrate now, but the entire reason I started was because of high phosphate, and it did not help with that. It's possible I have tons in my rock, and it is just releasing as it's taken out of the water column, but I've lost patience and want to something else to get my phosphate down.

 

[Reefahholic]

My experience with Vodka was actually quite good. Any and all unwanted algae, dinos, etc., were completely wiped out. My water became crystal clear. I did get some pink slime (bacteria) in my sump, but I backed off the dosage. My nitrates came down to the point where I have to dose nitrate now, but the entire reason I started was because of high phosphate, and it did not help with that. It's possible I have tons in my rock, and it is just releasing as it's taken out of the water column, but I've lost patience and want to something else to get my phosphate down.

I’ve been dosing very minimally, but I did see a reduction in nitrate.

Has you tried an absorber like GFO? That will probably be your best and safest bet for reducing your PO4 level if you start very slowly. Doesn’t take much! I’ve seen tanks leach phosphate for 4, 6, 12 months. If you feed minimally, use an absorber, and dose some bacteria with it, that will be your fastest way to get thought the leaching process. Eventually it will have nothing left to leach and the number will start coming down. I’d definitely keep the nitrate up at a decent level to make that process easier. I used to Lanthanum, but I look at it as more of a pollutant now. I quit back around 2017 or so. Now I just feed less, use natural bacteria, and organic carbon minimally. I’m just trying to find the best carbon source, but maybe is best to dose the old classic VSV. Who knows.