Sump Set-Up

[SuperNarwhal46]

I have been recently working to set up my 30-gallon sump to filter my 75-gallon tank. (no livestock or anything yet, obviously)
I have been having problems with my durso standpipe flushing and making splashing sounds, which I think means I have to make it taller, correct me if I am wrong. I have to make a new one anyway, since the last I glued with pvc glue stupidly so I couldn't modify it.
I also have been having problems controlling the flow. I put in baffles, but the water level is just going right over them. I need a way to either slow the flow or get new baffles. I bought them off of amazon, link here: Amazon product . I know it says 20 gallon, but they fit lengthwise in the sump. The pump I have is an old Geoglobal Partners Submersible Fountain Pump MD-11500 that seems to be returning water ok. It is rated for about 400gph, and my pipes have about 4.2 feet of pressure. I do not have a skimmer yet, but I plan on buying an Aquamaxx Q-1 from BRS in the near future. If anyone could provide help with the durso or the sump flow that would be great!

 

[Impala67]

I have been recently working to set up my 30-gallon sump to filter my 75-gallon tank. (no livestock or anything yet, obviously)
I have been having problems with my durso standpipe flushing and making splashing sounds, which I think means I have to make it taller, correct me if I am wrong. I have to make a new one anyway, since the last I glued with pvc glue stupidly so I couldn't modify it.
I also have been having problems controlling the flow. I put in baffles, but the water level is just going right over them. I need a way to either slow the flow or get new baffles. I bought them off of amazon, link here: Amazon product . I know it says 20 gallon, but they fit lengthwise in the sump. The pump I have is an old Geoglobal Partners Submersible Fountain Pump MD-11500 that seems to be returning water ok. It is rated for about 400gph, and my pipes have about 4.2 feet of pressure. I do not have a skimmer yet, but I plan on buying an Aquamaxx Q-1 from BRS in the near future. If anyone could provide help with the durso or the sump flow that would be great!

To slow the flow it’s not your baffles it’s either your return pump or your intake for you intake what you can do is cut out a small piece of pipe that’s easy to get to and replace it with a ball valve make sure it’s glued!!!! When the flow is to fast turn the valve just a little until you get the perfect flow. What kind of return pump do you have?

 

[SuperNarwhal46]

To slow the flow it’s not your baffles it’s either your return pump or your intake for you intake what you can do is cut out a small piece of pipe that’s easy to get to and replace it with a ball valve make sure it’s glued!!!! When the flow is to fast turn the valve just a little until you get the perfect flow. What kind of return pump do you have?

I actually just bought a new because my old one was getting loud and it finally broke the other day. The one I ordered is a Jebao Sine Wave DCP-2500. It has a controller so I should be able to control my flow a bit better. But thanks for the tip on the ball valve! I will have to pick one up at home depot soon

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I actually just bought a new because my old one was getting loud and it finally broke the other day. The one I ordered is a Jebao Sine Wave DCP-2500. It has a controller so I should be able to control my flow a bit better. But thanks for the tip on the ball valve! I will have to pick one up at home depot soon

A valve is not recommended on a DC pump. Being as you can adjust the speed it is not needed to adjust flow. For a quick way to shut off the pipe, so it does not drain, that is fine.

For the durso, they can be tuned to be near dead silent. Just build the durso per the directions below. You can then adjust the durso by starting with a small bleed hole and making it slightly larger until it is adjusted. When I ran durso, I used an air adjustment valve to tune mine. was a little easier, as I drilled one hole, placed the pieve of hose in the hole, ran hose to valve and could make fine adjustments until it was dead silent.

Make Your Own - Durso Standpipes

Durso Standpipes are used to make your aquarium overflow (weir) nearly silent. We help you make your own or purchase them ready made!

www.dursostandpipes.com

 

[Willhersh34]

I would add it's important to match the return pump flow with the flow of the drain. For example, I have a HOB overflow (bad, I know) rated for up to 300 GPH draining to the sump using 1" PVC. I have my return plumbed with 3/4" PVC, driving return the DT and a reactor. To avoid noise I set the pump to 45% of 660 gallons. I'll spare you the math, that equates to 296 GPH.

Now, the HOB overflow changes things a little but not much. You want the return to essentially drive the drain as much as possible. That reduces noise and while in some cases it also increases turnover, reducing contact time with media, as long as your turnover rate is somewhere between 4 and 10 times per hour you should be good.

The big take away is to size the drain appropriately for the rate of return you want then size the pump to drive the drain. Hope that makes sense.

I should note, I have the same pump running on a 40 breeder and struggled with noise until I matched the flow rates as closely as possible.

 

[Tonycass12]

Do you have 2 drains or 1. You should never restrict the flow in the drain if you only have 1 thats a recipe for disaster.

 

[SuperNarwhal46]

A valve is not recommended on a DC pump. Being as you can adjust the speed it is not needed to adjust flow. For a quick way to shut off the pipe, so it does not drain, that is fine.

For the durso, they can be tuned to be near dead silent. Just build the durso per the directions below. You can then adjust the durso by starting with a small bleed hole and making it slightly larger until it is adjusted. When I ran durso, I used an air adjustment valve to tune mine. was a little easier, as I drilled one hole, placed the pieve of hose in the hole, ran hose to valve and could make fine adjustments until it was dead silent.

Make Your Own - Durso Standpipes

Durso Standpipes are used to make your aquarium overflow (weir) nearly silent. We help you make your own or purchase them ready made!

www.dursostandpipes.com

Thanks for the link on the durso. I have been fiddling around with it for the past couple of days, I'll try to give those methods a try in the near future.

 

[SuperNarwhal46]

I would add it's important to match the return pump flow with the flow of the drain. For example, I have a HOB overflow (bad, I know) rated for up to 300 GPH draining to the sump using 1" PVC. I have my return plumbed with 3/4" PVC, driving return the DT and a reactor. To avoid noise I set the pump to 45% of 660 gallons. I'll spare you the math, that equates to 296 GPH.

Now, the HOB overflow changes things a little but not much. You want the return to essentially drive the drain as much as possible. That reduces noise and while in some cases it also increases turnover, reducing contact time with media, as long as your turnover rate is somewhere between 4 and 10 times per hour you should be good.

The big take away is to size the drain appropriately for the rate of return you want then size the pump to drive the drain. Hope that makes sense.

I should note, I have the same pump running on a 40 breeder and struggled with noise until I matched the flow rates as closely as possible.

Yep, that makes sense. This should be a lot easier to achieve with the controllable pump, but I need a way to calculate my flow intake. Is there a certain formula for that or does it greatly vary tank to tank?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

Yep, that makes sense. This should be a lot easier to achieve with the controllable pump, but I need a way to calculate my flow intake. Is there a certain formula for that or does it greatly vary tank to tank?

With a durso and if this is a predrilled tank, with standard aqueon/marineland bulkheads, max flow will be about 600 gph for the drain, if a single drain.

If this is DIY, then let us know what pipe and bulkhead you have in the tank and we can figure out max drain that way.

 

[Willhersh34]

Yep, that makes sense. This should be a lot easier to achieve with the controllable pump, but I need a way to calculate my flow intake. Is there a certain formula for that or does it greatly vary tank to tank?

It varies. I typically just go with what the manufacturer of the overflow says. If you try to go by PVC flow rates you will be waaaaay off.

For example, 1" PVC is theoretically rated for something like 800+ GPH with zero pressure. You will never achieve that. There are formulas but for what we're doing in a reef system "close enough" works. In my case, I know the overflow is rated for 300 GPH and came with a 1" bulkhead. At that point I knew I wanted 4 ~ 8 x turnover of the tank volume so I sized the pump accordingly, did the math on what to set the DC return pump to and then adjusted by ear and sight from there. The ear piece is obvious, is it gurgling. The sight piece is looking in the return chamber to see if the water level is basically keeping the pump covered to your liking.

 

[Eagle_Steve]

It varies. I typically just go with what the manufacturer of the overflow says. If you try to go by PVC flow rates you will be waaaaay off.

For example, 1" PVC is theoretically rated for something like 800+ GPH with zero pressure. You will never achieve that. There are formulas but for what we're doing in a reef system "close enough" works. In my case, I know the overflow is rated for 300 GPH and came with a 1" bulkhead. At that point I knew I wanted 4 ~ 8 x turnover of the tank volume so I sized the pump accordingly, did the math on what to set the DC return pump to and then adjusted by ear and sight from there. The ear piece is obvious, is it gurgling. The sight piece is looking in the return chamber to see if the water level is basically keeping the pump covered to your liking.

With a HOB overflow, the restrictor for flow is the smallest diameter piece, the U Tube. Due to the size and height of the rise, I assume it is an eshopps HOBO, then 300 and change is about what they can flow, max.

With a tank that is drilled, the one thing people forget about is the inside diameter of the bulkhead. A lot of times, the bulkheads reduce in size inside. This is to prevent pips from being run all the way through and for strength of the bulk head. Not to mention, friction, etc. etc. lol. So figuring an exact number is near impossible, but a range can be found quite easily. This is where tuning a durso comes in, if the drain is a durso. Being as we cannot gauge the exact amount and set pumps at the exact flow rate (we could but that would be very expensive lol) the durso is tuned to allow some air to go down the drain. Using a valve on a durso is a bad idea, since no emergency drain. The air hole and tuning still allows for a siphon, but allows for some air to regulate the overall flow and get it very close to the correct flow for whatever pump is being ran.

Herbie and Bean animal are the same idea, except a valve is used to control the drain. These of course have emergency drains, so a valve is acceptable to use for a drain on them.

 

[Willhersh34]

With a HOB overflow, the restrictor for flow is the smallest diameter piece, the U Tube. Due to the size and height of the rise, I assume it is an eshopps HOBO, then 300 and change is about what they can flow, max.

With a tank that is drilled, the one thing people forget about is the inside diameter of the bulkhead. A lot of times, the bulkheads reduce in size inside. This is to prevent pips from being run all the way through and for strength of the bulk head. Not to mention, friction, etc. etc. lol. So figuring an exact number is near impossible, but a range can be found quite easily. This is where tuning a durso comes in, if the drain is a durso. Being as we cannot gauge the exact amount and set pumps at the exact flow rate (we could but that would be very expensive lol) the durso is tuned to allow some air to go down the drain. Using a valve on a durso is a bad idea, since no emergency drain. The air hole and tuning still allows for a siphon, but allows for some air to regulate the overall flow and get it very close to the correct flow for whatever pump is being ran.

Herbie and Bean animal are the same idea, except a valve is used to control the drain. These of course have emergency drains, so a valve is acceptable to use for a drain on them.

Yes, the u tube in a HOB system is always going to be the limiting factor. I am, of course, assuming on a drilled setup you either have an in-tank "chamber" for the standpipes OR an externally hanging overflow box connected to the bulkhead in the tank.

And to your point, in this case it would be really important to know both the number of drains and the overflow setup, either in-tank or external. It still holds that you need to match the speed of the return pump as close as possible to the drain rate to reduce noise although on a drilled system this is less problematic. Since you don't have the u tube to worry about you essentially use the drain rate for the size pipe you're using to drain with and set your return pump accordingly.

And yes, I am personally using an eshopps HOB overflow. I was making the transition from freshwater to salt and at the time, full disclosure, was scared to try drilling a tank myself. Since things are working I've just lived with it. Of course I make consolidations based on having the HOB, such as using a stockman standpipe, cleaning the u tube/overflow, etc. to reduce noise, provide proper drain in the event of a power outage, things like that. The HOB sucks and I really need to drill my tank but at this point that would be a tear down, drill, put back up. I'm not real keen on doing that much work. Lol.

 

[SuperNarwhal46]

With a durso and if this is a predrilled tank, with standard aqueon/marineland bulkheads, max flow will be about 600 gph for the drain, if a single drain.

If this is DIY, then let us know what pipe and bulkhead you have in the tank and we can figure out max drain that way.

I have a 1inch bulkhead and a singular 1 inch drain. Would the max still be around 600 gph?

 

[Eagle_Steve]

I have a 1inch bulkhead and a singular 1 inch drain. Would the max still be around 600 gph?

Did you drill the tank yourself? or is this a prefab tank? Also, did you get the bulkhead or was it preinstalled? If you got it, who made it?

I ask this, as need to figure out the inside diameter on the bulkhead to know if it or the drain pipe will the biggest restricting factor.

 

[Willhersh34]

I will add this too. This may be as simple as getting the DC return pump in and using the flow control to tune things. Again, the sight and sound piece of the equation. Most people assume that gurgling means you need to slow things down. In this case I suspect the opposite is true. If it's truly gurgling that stems from air entering the pipe. To prevent the air from getting trapped you need to increase the speed of your return to the DT from which the water is draining, in essence "driving" the drain.

While that may not be the desired end result, faster return flow, it boils down to fluid dynamics, (And no, I can't explain how that works, I'm just a dumb IT guy, lol). Gurgling issues, generally, boil down to the need to drive water through the drain faster, reducing air trapped in the drain and eliminating the noise. I am, of course, simplifying things, but I would say waiting for the DC return pump and trying to tune things after you have it installed will save you from fiddling around trying to tune the drain.

And I agree, with a durso, no valves is recommended. Really, that's more related to a single drain system, regardless of the stand pipe. With a single drain you don't want to restrict the flow, you want to allow the return pump to do the work for you.

 

[SuperNarwhal46]

Did you drill the tank yourself? or is this a prefab tank? Also, did you get the bulkhead or was it preinstalled? If you got it, who made it?

I ask this, as need to figure out the inside diameter on the bulkhead to know if it or the drain pipe will the biggest restricting factor.

I inherited this tank from my uncle, I am not sure about either of those things. If I had to guess, it is an aqueon bulkhead. It fits a threaded 1 inch pvc adapter, if that helps.

 

[SuperNarwhal46]

I will add this too. This may be as simple as getting the DC return pump in and using the flow control to tune things. Again, the sight and sound piece of the equation. Most people assume that gurgling means you need to slow things down. In this case I suspect the opposite is true. If it's truly gurgling that stems from air entering the pipe. To prevent the air from getting trapped you need to increase the speed of your return to the DT from which the water is draining, in essence "driving" the drain.

While that may not be the desired end result, faster return flow, it boils down to fluid dynamics, (And no, I can't explain how that works, I'm just a dumb IT guy, lol). Gurgling issues, generally, boil down to the need to drive water through the drain faster, reducing air trapped in the drain and eliminating the noise. I am, of course, simplifying things, but I would say waiting for the DC return pump and trying to tune things after you have it installed will save you from fiddling around trying to tune the drain.

And I agree, with a durso, no valves is recommended. Really, that's more related to a single drain system, regardless of the stand pipe. With a single drain you don't want to restrict the flow, you want to allow the return pump to do the work for you.

I will definitely keep this in mind. The biggest thing is to get my flow just right, and with my new pump I should be able to do just that with the controller and all.