Sump and plumbing questions

[valley]

Hello, I have an aqueon 60 gallon breeder and I’m looking to add a sump to it. I’ll be getting the trigger systems crystal 30 sump because of how limited the width is under my tank (48”x12”). Is this fine or is it too small for my tank?

I can’t drill my tank so I’m going to have to use an hob overflow box. Which hob overflow box should I get? Should I get an overflow box with two lines and run one as a trickle line to my sump?

I’ve done some research on the basics of plumbing the tank but I still have some questions/concerns. Are gate/ball valves, unions, and support brackets necessary? Can’t I just run a 1” pipe from top to bottom using elbows and the bulkheads included with my sump and overflow box?

 

[Formulator]

I’ll be getting the trigger systems crystal 30 sump because of how limited the width is under my tank (48”x12”). Is this fine or is it too small for my tank?

This should be fine.

I can’t drill my tank so I’m going to have to use an hob overflow box. Which hob overflow box should I get? Should I get an overflow box with two lines and run one as a trickle line to my sump?

2 lines is the safest and quieter option if you can swing it. 1 line would be acceptable for your tank size in a pinch though.

Are gate/ball valves, unions, and support brackets necessary? Can’t I just run a 1” pipe from top to bottom using elbows and the bulkheads included with my sump and overflow box?

Gate valves and ball valves are not interchangeable. You will want a gate valve on the main drain pipe near the sump. Without it, you will have issues with noise and won’t be able to fine-tune the water level in the overflow and sump. You will want unions on either side of the valve to allow disassembly in case the valve needs replacement in the future or you need to move the system. Support brackets are optional depending on the setup. I’d say do the plumbing and see how stable everything is, then decide if you need the structural support or not.

 

[valley]

This should be fine.


2 lines is the safest and quieter option if you can swing it. 1 line would be acceptable for your tank size in a pinch though.


Gate valves and ball valves are not interchangeable. You will want a gate valve on the main drain pipe near the sump. Without it, you will have issues with noise and won’t be able to fine-tune the water level in the overflow and sump. You will want unions on either side of the valve to allow disassembly in case the valve needs replacement in the future or you need to move the system. Support brackets are optional depending on the setup. I’d say do the plumbing and see how stable everything is, then decide if you need the structural support or not.

Alright, I’ll get the eshopps pf-1000 overflow box because it has two outputs. I’ll run one as a normal drain and the other as a trickle line to my fuge. I’ll also use valves and unions in my plumbing. Thank you for the help!

 

[Formulator]

I’ll run one as a normal drain and the other as a trickle line to my fuge.

Be careful with this. In the event of a clog on your main drain, you want to ensure the backup can handle the full volume of water draining from the DT. Depending on your setup, this may not work going to the fuge. You also don’t want the trickle to be the only water supply to the fuge as it is a very small amount of water and if the siphon on the main line breaks, there will be no water flowing into the fuge.

 

[valley]

Be careful with this. In the event of a clog on your main drain, you want to ensure the backup can handle the full volume of water draining from the DT. Depending on your setup, this may not work going to the fuge. You also don’t want the trickle to be the only water supply to the fuge as it is a very small amount of water and if the siphon on the main line breaks, there will be no water flowing into the fuge.

I’ll look into adding another input bulkhead and sock into the sump so I can run the trickle line there instead. As for plumbing, I found this image on Google that is similar to how I’m imagining the plumbing. The only other things I’ll add are more unions on the return line and put the trickle line next to the regular drain line. Is this a good layout or are there things I should consider removing/adding?

 

[TBSB2019]

Going that route, be very careful. If you break siphon, your return pump will still be pumping and will drain your sump. You might want to look into a float switch that can turn your pump off when the water level in your sump drops to low to keep from overflowing your tank. Something like an AutoAqua Smart Level Switch.

 

[Formulator]

Going that route, be very careful.

By “that route”, do you mean an external overflow box?

 

[Formulator]

I’ll look into adding another input bulkhead and sock into the sump so I can run the trickle line there instead. As for plumbing, I found this image on Google that is similar to how I’m imagining the plumbing. The only other things I’ll add are more unions on the return line and put the trickle line next to the regular drain line. Is this a good layout or are there things I should consider removing/adding?

Looks pretty standard to me. Don’t over complicate things. The pipes may or may not end up looking the same as the google photo. PVC is really easy to work with. I would encourage you to play around with it and figure out what works best for your specific system. As long as you connect point A to point B and keep the water flowing downward in your drains, it doesn’t matter where you decide to put your turns. Fittings are like 50 cents a piece. Just buy a bunch of 90 and 45 degree angles, a 10 ft length of 1 inch PVC, and a cutting tool. Dry fit and use trial and error to get the geometry right, then glue when you are happy.

 

[TBSB2019]

By “that route”, do you mean an external overflow box?

Yes. The one that is being looked at (eshopps pf-1000) works off siphon. If the siphon breaks, water will no longer be going from the tank to the sump. Also, if power is lost and the return shuts down, the siphon will break and will have to be manually restarted. If the pump comes back on with restored power, it will pump water to the tank without water coming back to the sump. Usint the "smart plug" will keep the pump off.

 

[Formulator]

Yes. The one that is being looked at (eshopps pf-1000) works off siphon. If the siphon breaks, water will no longer be going from the tank to the sump. Also, if power is lost and the return shuts down, the siphon will break and will have to be manually restarted. If the pump comes back on with restored power, it will pump water to the tank without water coming back to the sump. Usint the "smart plug" will keep the pump off.

Wow, I never considered that. Great point for the OP to consider! I have always had an internal overflow with weir so never had to worry. I was trying to figure out how breaking the siphon on my drain in there could ever overflow my tank (in fact it does the opposite and raises my sump level). But now I see what you are saying about the connection between the external overflow box and the tank.

 

[TBSB2019]

Wow, I never considered that. Great point for the OP to consider! I have always had an internal overflow with weir so never had to worry. I was trying to figure out how breaking the siphon on my drain in there could ever overflow my tank (in fact it does the opposite and raises my sump level). But now I see what you are saying about the connection between the external overflow box and the tank.

Our very first tank was set up the same way (siphon overflow) and we lost power once just long enough to break siphon. We were lucky as I was home and close to the tank at the time.

 

[trainbob]

If you use a DC return pump you will not need the gate valve and will have better control over your flow

 

[Formulator]

If you use a DC return pump you will not need the gate valve and will have better control over your flow

Not necessarily true. For a 1 inch drain on a herbie style overflow you will need to restrict flow in order to achieve siphon on the main drain and trickle on the second. Unless its a very powerful dc pump.

 

[trainbob]

I think most people want more flow than they need whether using an AC pump or a DC pump why the need for a gate valve. Personally I would rather control the flow with a controller than a valve. The reason is better control of the flow. The DC pump I have can control the flow from 30% to 100% in 1% increments. However if you prefer an AC pump that is okay to

 

[TBSB2019]

You would still be using the pump but to control the flow rate, but the gate valve would be used to control the noise on that style of overflow drain, not to control the flow rate.

 

[trainbob]

It does the same thing. Speaking from experience. If the question is whether a DC pump or an AC pump there are other considerations one is the need for a gate valve on an AC pump

 

[trainbob]

What does a gate valve do and where’s it placed? The answer to these two questions will show that a DC pump will do the same thing

 

[Formulator]

What does a gate valve do and where’s it placed? The answer to these two questions will show that a DC pump will do the same thing

It will do the same thing IF the pump is large enough. The problem in my system, and I imagine in others as well, is that even at 100% power, I cannot achieve enough flow to get full siphon on the main drain and raise the water level enough to have a trickle down the secondary drain of a herbie style overflow. If my gate is wide open and pump 100%, I have a very noisy toilet bowl flushing effect. My pump runs at 100% with gate valve about 1/3 closed to get the water level right for silent operation. This is with a powerful external iwaki pump, though higher head pressure as I have a basement sump setup.

 

[TBSB2019]

And you get into the situation where you are pushing way to much through the system that is needed/wanted. It is only a 60 gallon tank. A 3/4 inch or 1 inch would take more than 600 gallons (10x turnover) an hour to create a full siphon without the gate valve. 1 inch can handle about 2000 gal an hour.

I am running about 800 through 3/4 inch and have the valve closed some on one tank and 1200 through 1 inch with the valve closed some (still tweaking) on the other tank to keep the gurgling down. My 60 gallon is running about 300 with the valve closed most of the way.

 

[trainbob]

Are either one of you using a DC pump. And why would you use an under powered return pump.