Still reading Saltwater Tanks For Dummies

[EasyC]

So I’m going through as much research etc as I can to decide what type of tank size I want to use and have decided on 75-100ga (because everything I’ve seen/read says larger tanks can handle small missteps better because there’s more water to compensate etc.

Then I stater reading into filtration and then FOWLR vs Reef tanks and started to get overwhelmed because I’m the type of guy who measures 3-4 times before I cut and I want to make decisions that I can build from or recover easily from.

Basically I’m here looking for help deciding that if I want to go FOWLR or Reef (and if I go FOWLR to start, is it possible to transition into Reef? Or would that be a “start a new tank” situation?

Is that any *very versatile* filtration systems and lighting systems etc that I can make decisions after the fact if I want to add coral, etc.?

I feel like if I start down the FOWLR road I’ll limit myself down the road.

This is my first tank, I’m retired military so I’ve got the time and the discipline to handle maintaining things of this nature, so I’m not concerned about “only being a beginner”…

Any help or guidance would be helpful and please be as descriptive as you can… I just learned the acronym for FOWLR and ATO were like yesterday.

Thanks and sorry for the wall of words.

TL;DR? Help me make early tank and marine life decision's that will give me the most options down the road with a limit of ~100ga tank (all the space I have in my home available)

 

[Dom]

Basically I’m here looking for help deciding that if I want to go FOWLR or Reef (and if I go FOWLR to start, is it possible to transition into Reef? Or would that be a “start a new tank” situation?

I feel the best way to approach the hobby is through reading and research, which you are clearly doing! Excellent...

If you wanted to start with a FOWLER, then you could gradually convert over to full reef tank once you have become proficient with FOWLER.

FOWLER is also cheaper to operate; lighting in such a tank is strictly about making the tank contents visible in the FOWLER. If you upgrade to a reef tank, now you are looking at special lighting requirements which can be expensive depending on what you choose.

Yes, larger tanks are more forgiving where chemistry swings are concerned. So for a beginner, larger is better.

In the end, I usually make this recommendation: Decide which fish you like and want to keep, then design your system around that.

Dom

 

[TehBrainz]

This is exactly what I did when I started into the hobby. I started with a 75g FOWLR and an LED strip light (I think the one that came with the MarineLand 75g?). Started with a HOB filtration setup. Moved 400 miles (no deaths!) set up in temporary unit for 6 months, set up HOB refugium. Moved 20 miles (no deaths again!) then set up a sump with a HOB overflow. Got the hang of all the equipment and started figuring out what would be needed for reef tank. All of this was over the course of ~2-3 years. Shortly after getting the sump set up, I got a cheap LED black box for lighting and was keeping "easy" corals with success.

About 3 years ago I found a killer local deal on a 210g DT with all equipment included and jumped in to the "large" tank life. 2 years ago I got a GHL Profilux 4 and I'm now (within the last month) doing auto water changes and reaping the benefits of a slow ramp into the hobby. TBH, I was terrified (and still cautious) about the care and needs of corals and I'm a "let me read into that first..." kind of guy also.

I certainly don't have a tank like many that are here, but I'm so happy with what I've learned and accomplished on the way.

TLDR: you can go from FOWLR to reef tank quite easily and, I would argue, is the best approach for success if you don't have prior experience in aquariums or saltwater, for that matter.

 

[shakacuz]

welcome aboard the r2r board! hello from PA!

i agree with Dom, above. some solid suggestions. i also suggest going FOWLR then to a reef once you have established a level of routine/maintenance. also it gives you time to think and plan out the rest (as in, what colors you like and want to keep, or other additions)

 

[Jekyl]

Getting in to saltwater always seems like a daunting task to newcomers. It's really not that hard.

Starting with a FOWLR tank is generally what everyone does in one way or another. Even if intending on coral, tanks should go a few months before adding any. This allows things to stabilize and mature. So in some ways, you're actually setting yourself up to succeed in your mindset.

Make sure to use an RODI system, not tap water though. If wanting coral down the road, using tap water can make it harder to do so.


Welcome to R2R!

Plenty of people here who love the chance to help new people into the hobby.

 

[CBonito]

Welcome!

Obviously, you have some kind of picture in your head of what you WANT.

My best advice is to pick through all of the build threads in here. Even the ones where you say "whoa man, I can't afford that!" Going through as many of them as you can is going to get you a lot of useful information on what's smart, clever, practical or what just looks nice because all of that matters. The more specifics you can connect the dots with, the more your system will ultimately match your vision and be something you can be proud of.

And yes, 75-100 gallons is a great start. I have about 90-100 gallons total myself and it's working great for me.
There are some really amazing systems here, some huge and elaborate and others very small and simple, but just as amazing. Find something you're committed to and don't settle.

Also learn what tanks are good and what others to avoid because there's that too.

 

[EasyC]

I really like the idea of choosing the fish and marine life first and building around that to start.

Would a 100ga be sufficient for a FOWLR and then a possible (almost guaranteed upgrade to a Reef)?

Lastly, everyone is always saying “the lighting is so expensive! It could be like $400-$500 for lighting alone!” And that doesn’t scare me in the slightest… what scares me is spending $400-$500 on an exotic coral or other invertebrate and keeping it alive with so many things to go wrong… I’d buy $2000 lights if I needed to.

Lastly, in your and other reader’s opinion, is there a good metric of “rule of thumb” for amount of fish to live comfortably in a a certain sized tank? (Obviously in a 100ga in this case)

Maybe 6-8 species? More? Less? I can’t find a concrete answer on a fish needs about 10-15ga for itself leaving me 85-90ga left to choose other fish.

Thanks for your great response.

 

[Jekyl]

I really like the idea of choosing the fish and marine life first and building around that to start.

Would a 100ga be sufficient for a FOWLR and then a possible (almost guaranteed upgrade to a Reef)?

Lastly, everyone is always saying “the lighting is so expensive! It could be like $400-$500 for lighting alone!” And that doesn’t scare me in the slightest… what scares me is spending $400-$500 on an exotic coral or other invertebrate and keeping it alive with so many things to go wrong… I’d buy $2000 lights if I needed to.

Lastly, in your and other reader’s opinion, is there a good metric of “rule of thumb” for amount of fish to live comfortably in a a certain sized tank? (Obviously in a 100ga in this case)

Maybe 6-8 species? More? Less? I can’t find a concrete answer on a fish needs about 10-15ga for itself leaving me 85-90ga left to choose other fish.

Thanks for your great response.

Lighting a 100g tank could easily be $2000. If you end up falling in love with sps it could well be the case with some t5 hybrid combo with kessils.

The amount of fish you keep will depend on their size and living area. The less rock, less caves, the less hiding/sleeping spots you have for each fish. Keep that in mind when designing your scape. Each fish or pair will need a place where others aren't trying to be. A home of their own.

Currently I have a 90g and have 8 fish. I know others with a 100g and have 30. However that tank is very mature and has lots of the spaces I mentioned. Also not keeping very many large fish.

If you end up wanting coral, then plan for reef safe and utility fish.

 

[CBonito]

The more broken up territories you have in your tank, the more swimming space and places to hide there will be for the fish and the more you'd be able to support. Even fish that would normally not get along will do fine with enough territory. The footprint of your tank is far more important than the height in that context.

In a 45-50 gallon (I forget what it is) which is 36lx24wx12" tall, I have a flame hawkfish, a melanurus wrasse, 3 green chromis, a midas blenny and a diamond goby. And they are all fine in that footprint because one fish likes the rocks, some like the topwater, one likes the sand...it isn't until you have fish competing for something that there is violence. I have 2 islands and a little one in the middle all made of branch rock, so there is plenty of hiding space and lots of swimming room.

If you had a tank the same size as mine with no rock in it, those fish would all systematically kill one another or die from stress. But nope, I count the same number of happy heads every morning when I feed.

 

[RocketEngineer]

I followed much the same path you did: 75g FOWLR then transitioned to a reef. My mistake was upgrading to a bigger tank after that (I will spare you the details). After that debacle I’ve started very slowly putting my next system together. I went with a 48” long 100G so that it was easy to maintain (I can reach everywhere I need to), easy to light (mostly one or two fixture options will do the job), small enough to fit in the room but big enough for the critters I want to keep. While some folks like the big show tank, I realized after my crash that it wasn’t for me. Modest sized suites me just fine.

 

[DrinkinPepsi]

FOWLR to Reef is a fine path. You have some good advice here. Only thing I'm going to add is prep the build for reef now. Drill the tank for your overflows and return plumbing. You don't want to add a sump later and have to use all HOB stuff. Just drill it now and put in a sump that way you can keep all the equipment down there you don't want to see in the tank. When you go reef eventually as I'm sure you will, everything will be a little simpler.

 

[EasyC]

I followed much the same path you did: 75g FOWLR then transitioned to a reef. My mistake was upgrading to a bigger tank after that (I will spare you the details). After that debacle I’ve started very slowly putting my next system together. I went with a 48” long 100G so that it was easy to maintain (I can reach everywhere I need to), easy to light (mostly one or two fixture options will do the job), small enough to fit in the room but big enough for the critters I want to keep. While some folks like the big show tank, I realized after my crash that it wasn’t for me. Modest sized suites me just fine.

Wow, your story is almost exactly mine… save for the 75ga… I’ve been looking for the rimless tank with no luck because everything I search for comes back with the most highly sponsored ads like Aqueon or MarineLand (the tanks sold at PetSmart, etc that I was specifically told to stay away from)

But I’d be lying if I wasn’t interested in their prices, haha.

Do you think you might be able to help me find the rimless tank? I obviously know about Red Sea but those tanks are the tanks I suspect that people want to just buy an all-in-one, ready to plug in and go, but really nice quality.

What are some other good quality brands? (And please be gentle, haha)

 

[cilyjr]

Do you think you might be able to help me find the rimless tank? I obviously know about Red Sea but those tanks are the tanks I suspect that people want to just buy an all-in-one, ready to plug in and go, but really nice quality.

I had an SCA 120 rimless. It was very nicely made and euro braced about a quarter of an inch in. So a screen lid fit beautifully and was hidden.
Here's a list of tank manufacturers to inquire from.

I copied this list a couple of years ago from another author. I do not recall who some of these companies may no longer be in service

1. Coast 2 Coast

2. Reef Savvy

3. Miracles Aquariums

4. Titan

5. Concept Aquariums

6. Crystal Dynamics

7. Planet Aquariums

8. Advanced Acrylics

9. Midwest Custom Aquarium

10. Fish Tanks Direct

11. Custom Aquariums

12. Acrylic Tank Manufacturing

13. Tank Me USA

14. Crystal Reef Aquatics

15. Aqueon

16. Glass Cages

17. SCA

18. Acrylic Glass Exhibits

19. GEO

20. Tenecor Aquariums

21. Exotic Aquariums

22. Waterbox

23. Cade

24. Innovative Marine

25. Reef Octopus

26. Zero Edge

27. Redsea

28. Sheman Tanks

29. ELOS

30. New Level Tanks

31. The Aquarium King

32. Fish Traps

33. Splash Box Creations

34. Aqua Forest

35. Nyos

36. AquaMaxx

37. Mr Aqua

38. Eshopps

39. Lifegard Aquatics

40. LiquidArt Aquariums

41. JBJ

42. Maxspec

43. Miraculous Catch Aquarium

 

[cilyjr]

If you think you may end up with a full reef aquarium, you may want to consider buying the equipment initially that will suit that because it will all work for a fish only tank. Upgrading a tank that is in place can sometimes be difficult. Many people end up spending even more money because they decide to upgrade and the pieces they bought previous were not capable of sustaining a reef aquarium.

Find a local club and look in their used equipment forum to get better deals. One place I would tend not to skimp is on lighting. And be very cautious of buying used lighting.

 

[EasyC]

If you think you may end up with a full reef aquarium, you may want to consider buying the equipment initially that will suit that because it will all work for a fish only tank. Upgrading a tank that is in place can sometimes be difficult. Many people end up spending even more money because they decide to upgrade and the pieces they bought previous were not capable of sustaining a reef aquarium.

Find a local club and look in their used equipment forum to get better deals. One place I would tend not to skimp is on lighting. And be very cautious of buying used lighting.

Finding a local club would be a great idea... I'm actually going to start looking today.

Based on the brand/manufacturer suggestions I found many out of business, but I was able to find a couple with the types of stuff I'm looking for.

Here's a quick pic of the details and stock image of the tank... the price for this tank/stand/covered overflow is: $2,120.00.

At the end of the day, I'm just wondering if this is a reasonable price for a reasonable brand? I'm aware I'm not getting any of the filtration, pumps, etc. so I'll be researching that next... I'm wondering if places sell "everything you'll need for a 120ga FOWLR to Reef tank" package... I'm hoping someone does

 

[EasyC]

Finding a local club would be a great idea... I'm actually going to start looking today.

Based on the brand/manufacturer suggestions I found many out of business, but I was able to find a couple with the types of stuff I'm looking for.

Here's a quick pic of the details and stock image of the tank... the price for this tank/stand/covered overflow is: $2,120.00.

At the end of the day, I'm just wondering if this is a reasonable price for a reasonable brand? I'm aware I'm not getting any of the filtration, pumps, etc. so I'll be researching that next... I'm wondering if places sell "everything you'll need for a 120ga FOWLR to Reef tank" package... I'm hoping someone does

And I guess now I've started a new thread inside this thread by asking what main components will I need for a tank this size? I've learned that I'll probably need at last 25-30ga sump tank, but beyond that I'm not entirely sure what "sizes" of the other components. I feel like I'm starting to become annoying with these questions...

 

[cilyjr]

No that seems high.
When I bought the 120 I paid a grand for it. That was a few years ago. I'd expect to spend about 1200 now

 

[cilyjr]

asking what main components will I need for a tank this size?

When I had a full sps 120 g tank...

40 g breeder sump.

2x hydra 32hd and 4x 4 foot t5 bulbs in a hybrid fixture.

2x MP40s power heads

1x bubblemagus curve 7 skimmer.

1x jebao return pump

1x reef octopus cr 140 with a 2nd chamber

1x Neptune apex controller w/
Trident
Dos
2x eb8

1x 6 stage 2:1 150gpd rodi

All that said, I have been doing this for a very long time and a lot of this equipment was gotten over the years, the apex in particular.

This is all higher and stuff and you certainly do NOT NEED this. If you purchased things in this vein, you would not need to upgrade.

If I were starting from scratch from the beginning I would get a higher end aquarium and a nice cabinet. I would do a DIY sump. And I would get good lights because trying to hang new lights over a running aquarium sucks.

I would buy a lot of used stuff from the local group and cheaper powerheads and return pumps.

 

[EasyC]

No that seems high.
When I bought the 120 I paid a grand for it. That was a few years ago. I'd expect to spend about 1200 now

What and where did you find your 120?

 

[cilyjr]

What and where did you find your 120?

SCA number 17 on the chart.

Yup it's 1195 plus shipping.

120 Gallon Starfire Tank with Center Overflow 48x24x24'' 12mm

www.scaquariums.com