Starfish dying? please help

[mads4]

Hi all! I’ve had my marine tank for around 2 years now and i’ve never really had any problems (accept my clown being agressive). Around 2 months ago i decided to buy a red starfish for my tank.
The starfish settled in nicely and had been doing good, moving around freely, climbing up the glass, etc. However, around 3 weeks ago i had noticed that it had just stopped moving around as much, it would just stay in the same position for a couple of days. I know it was not dead because i know as a defence technique they go hard, so i would kind of pick him up with the net (i don’t want to touch him with my hand) and move him to another location, at this point he would be hard. then a minute later he would relax and turn into “liquid” (soft) again and take the shape of the object he was lying on.
i would notice that he moved around slightly, half up the wall, half on the sand but then stay still for ages and just not move. it had been like this for a while.
i went to my local marine pet shop and asked them and they said it may be the water pressure and how fast the water is moving, i have made sure the pressure is good and not too much. then the pet shop employee suggested i buy some live food for it to catch so i brought 3 live food reccomended for starfish. (i’m not sure of the name of them but i know they are very small, like half a pinky fingernail, and almost like snails in their shells) i placed them in the tank but he showed now interest! the only one who did was my shrimp.
when i was cleaning them out last week decided to place him on top of the rock, then he decided to crawl under the rock, and i haven’t seen him for about 3 days.
I am really struggling on what to do because everything else in my tank is fine, so i’m wondering if it is something in my tank which has been stressing it out.
earlier i said i had an agressive black ice clownfish, she has previously killed 2 fish and 3 shrimp, however i have brought a shrimp which is bigger than her and she now does not bother it. sometimes when i put my hand it she tries to attack it. i’ve tried many things to calm her down but around 2 months ago i also brought an anemone which she has not bonded to yet. however my anemone is thriving and very beautiful.
some information on my tank:
I do a 10% water change each week. My tank is 60 litres large. my tank has three filter chambers. in chamber 1 is the skimmer, in chamber 2 has a net bag containing lots of bits of broken live rock and a separate net bag containing some carbon, chamber three has a filter come pump. I have a separate circulation pump inside the tank, plus large live rock pieces forming features and lots of places for the fish to hide in. I have live sand in my tank to make a substrate.
i’ve checked all around the tank for any exposed metals, swollen magnets, screws, rusting and nothing is unusual.
i have done nothing different to my tank and been doing the same thing for the past 2 years now, so i don’t think it could be any changes in the tank which would of shocked my starfish.
whenever i am about to put my hands in the tank, or about to feed the fish i make sure to wash my hands thoroughly as well as dry them off. i always do this to avoid anything getting into the tank and harming the fish.
the contents of my tank is: 1 hermit crabs, 1 halloween hermit crab, 2 snails, 1 cleaner shrimp, 1starfish and one clown fish.
Thank you for reading.

 

[Lavey29]

Not knowing the specific species you have, I can still tell you they are very difficult creatures to sustain long term. I've had mine 1.5 years now and at times he seems to slow down or go missing for a day or two. He eats film algae all over the rocks and glass. I have never direct fed him anything. I do dose phytoplankton daily so maybe he filter feeds too.

 

[Tamberav]

Most starfish have very poor survival rates in our tanks. They are long lived creatures in the wild but generally die eventually in home aquaria. Some theorize that they slowly starve to death not finding what they need.

I wouldn’t expect an average 15g tank to support something like a fromia.

 

[mads4]

Not knowing the specific species you have, I can still tell you they are very difficult creatures to sustain long term. I've had mine 1.5 years now and at times he seems to slow down or go missing for a day or two. He eats film algae all over the rocks and glass. I have never direct fed him anything. I do dose phytoplankton daily so maybe he filter feeds too.

Hi, thank you so much. at the pet shop he was just sold to me as a ‘red starfish’. i will insert a photo for you right after i had cleaned out the tank (usually there is more algae). is there anything i can do to help? it’s going on 3 weeks with little to no movement.

 

[mads4]

Most starfish have very poor survival rates in our tanks. They are long lived creatures in the wild but generally die eventually in home aquaria. Some theorize that they slowly starve to death not finding what they need.

I wouldn’t expect an average 15g tank to support something like a fromia.

Hi, thank you for the reply. Everything in my tank has been advised to me from the marine pet shop. When selling it to me, they said it would only grow up to 15cm and it would be like a bottom feeder. I am sorry, i had no idea i was not meant to keep fromia in the tank, is there anything i can do or do you suggest taking it back? Thank you.

 

[Kasrift]

Even if you take it back, they just don't thrive in tanks. It looks like you have a fromia milleporella. What they eat is unknown, but people suspect they eat biofilm and bacteria. Your tank is way too clean for it. You must have a rigorous cleaning schedule since the sand and rock look great. Unfortunately that leaves little for the starfish to eat. @livinlifeinBKK is doing a study on what they eat, but he is doing fromia indica. Post of picture of it from the top to confirm which type it is.

 

[mads4]

Even if you take it back, they just don't thrive in tanks. It looks like you have a fromia milleporella. What they eat is unknown, but people suspect they eat biofilm and bacteria. Your tank is way too clean for it. You must have a rigorous cleaning schedule since the sand and rock look great. Unfortunately that leaves little for the starfish to eat. @livinlifeinBKK is doing a study on what they eat, but he is doing fromia indica. Post of picture of it from the top to confirm which type it is.

Hi, i clean the tank out once a week and with in a day it is filled with algae, with those specific photos i took out the rocks and cleaned them with my excess salt water i had. i will attach pic of tank now, and how it usually is (filled with algae). Some of these photos are old which is why there is one with my old fish in it. and one was when my crab stole the brine shrimp . I did buy those snail things that they recommended for the starfish to eat, however it showed no interest. I understand now that i need to leave it some algae for it to eat. thank you so much for the advice! Ive tried to find a pic of it from the top but i’m unsure if i this is okay for you, just let me know if you need another picture.

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

@Kasrift thanks for the tag...that's definitely a fromia milleporella and even less is known concerning their diet than F. Indica. The best i can advise for this specific species is to add some live ocean rock for him to feed off of but long term survival rates are slim. I have had good success with Fromia indica (sample size of 3) gaining weight so i am figuring out their dietary requirements however. Once they start to go downhill it's a quick process generally with little room for turn around unfortunately...

 

[mads4]

@Kasrift thanks for the tag...that's definitely a fromia milleporella and even less is known concerning their diet than F. Indica. The best i can advise for this specific species is to add some live ocean rock for him to feed off of but long term survival rates are slim. I have had good success with Fromia indica (sample size of 3) gaining weight so i am figuring out their dietary requirements however. Once they start to go downhill it's a quick process generally with little room for turn around unfortunately...

Thank you for the advice. can you tell if in the pictures the starfish looks ‘ill’ or anything like that? i do have 3 pieces of broken live rock in the tank already (you can see them in the photos), do you recommend me getting more? thank you, much appreciated.

 

[Tired]

Fromia species are generally doomed in aquaria, particularly in small aquaria. Leaving the tank dirty won't help much- they're not algae-eaters, or they'd be much easier to keep. They likely eat the bacteria and biofilm that grows on the surface of everything, and there just isn't enough of that in a small tank.

I'm also concerned about- that's a sleeper goby in one of the photos, right? It looks underweight. Those are sand-sifters and can be tricky to keep properly fed.

 

[Tamberav]

Sadly many pet shops treat these stars like throw away, maybe they don’t know better but people buy them and they last usually a year and die then maybe they buy another and so on.

Good eye @Tired that goby generally doesn’t do well in a small tank either.

I would stop asking your store for advice I guess.

 

[mads4]

Fromia species are generally doomed in aquaria, particularly in small aquaria. Leaving the tank dirty won't help much- they're not algae-eaters, or they'd be much easier to keep. They likely eat the bacteria and biofilm that grows on the surface of everything, and there just isn't enough of that in a small tank.

I'm also concerned about- that's a sleeper goby in one of the photos, right? It looks underweight. Those are sand-sifters and can be tricky to keep properly fed.

Hi, about the goby in the photo, that was from around 6 months ago and just before it passed because my agressive clownfish which was attacking it regularly. since then we have decided not to add any more fish into the tank because of the clown. I have a video of the clown attacking my halloween crab! he is so agressive.
The pet shop said i could take my clown back, but because i’ve had him for so long i just cant give him back he is such a character.
i am sorry, i had no idea that those types of starfish were not meant to be kept in my tank, or else i would not have brought it. everything i have in my tank has been recommended to me by the marine pet shop. i really had no idea. Thank you so much for commenting.

 

[Tamberav]

I wonder if you could add another clownfish of the same species. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. It has to be a baby/male though.

 

[mads4]

Sadly many pet shops treat these stars like throw away, maybe they don’t know better but people buy them and they last usually a year and die then maybe they buy another and so on.

Good eye @Tired that goby generally doesn’t do well in a small tank either.

I would stop asking your store for advice I guess.

Thank you for your response. From now on i will do my own research on the tank and not reply on the shop. thank you so much for all of your help.

 

[mads4]

I wonder if you could add another clownfish. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. It has to be a baby/male though.

Hi, i added an anemone around 2 months ago but sadly she hasn’t bonded to it yet. i’m unsure how long it is going to take. the pet shop said they could breed some and we could take one of the babies. every week when we go in we try to look for a pair of clownfish so we can take the male but unfortunately they only have female by themselves in recently.

 

[Tamberav]

Hi, i added an anemone around 2 months ago but sadly she hasn’t bonded to it yet. the pet shop said they could breed some and we could take one of the babies. every week when we go in we try to look for a pair of clownfish so we can take the male but unfortunately they only have female by themselves in recently.

It sometimes takes while for clowns to figure out the nem is a good home.

Gotcha, hopefully you can find her a mate sometime. Ya any baby will do as they haven’t sex changed yet. She will rough him up most likely but hopefully accept him after a bit.

I have a pair that has been with me 7 or 8 years so I get the attachment even though they can be jerks. Yours is nice looking

 

[mads4]

It sometimes takes while for clowns to figure out the nem is a good home.

Gotcha, hopefully you can find her a mate sometime. Ya any baby will do as they haven’t sex changed yet. She will rough him up most likely but hopefully accept him after a bit.

I have a pair that has been with me 7 or 8 years so I get the attachment even though they can be jerks. Yours is nice looking

hopefully soon i can bring her a baby/ male. i’ve had her for going on 2 years, she generally has such character, and her name is Mike!

Awh bless! mine is a black ice clownfish i think she’s very gorgeous! my favourite in the tank by far!

 

[sixty_reefer]

There is ways to keep this stars feed in small tanks, I’m just concerned that the method required to promote they’re food to be to complicated for someone that just started the hobby as it involves complex nutrients management.

this is mine in a 25g

in October

And recently

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

There is ways to keep this stars feed in small tanks, I’m just concerned that the method required to promote they’re food to be to complicated for someone that just started the hobby as it involves complex nutrients management.

this is mine in a 25g

in October

And recently

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

Agreed... although i would say there may be more than one method to accomplish their nutritional requirements...fwiw i do have Fromias in a small tank as well that are doing well if weight gain is any indication

 

[sixty_reefer]

Agreed... although i would say there may be more than one method to accomplish their nutritional requirements...fwiw i do have Fromias in a small tank as well that are doing well if weight gain is any indication

No objection there, I haven’t done it in purpose just a coincidence as I was experimenting with reducing organic compounds in my system with bacteria. Only noticed the other day as looking trough older pictures.
Looking forward to see your method and observations