Stable but high Phosphates - Should I consider a second removal strategy?

[JohnNYC8]

I have high phosphates but they're stable. I'm using a Hannah ULR checker and I confirmed my results with an ICP test. I dramatically scaled back my feeding routine but my numbers have only leveled-off. The only nuisance algae issue I have are a few valonia that I manually remove. My nitrates were 17.5 yesterday on a Hannah Checker.

Here are my readings from the last 10 days (I'm also dosing a tiny bit of iodine based on ICP test results)

I have a 26 gallon AIO tank so I'm using Rowaphos in a bag in my return chamber. I know that's not the most effective way to use it but I don't have space for a media reactor.

Since the Rowaphos in the return chamber is keeping my numbers stable but not lowering them dramatically should I also use a liquid phosphate remover like Brightwell Phosphat-E to slowly bring them down to the correct range? Are there any other parameters I should be concerned with if I go this route? I'm thinking I could lower them by ~.5 over the next 3-4 water changes to get within NSW range. At that point I hope to stop using the Phosphat-E and just rely on my better feeding routine and Rowaphos in a bag to keep them stable. Would you recommend this course of action or something different?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Is the only reason why you want to lower it because you read that phosphate needs to be in a particular range?

I don't buy into that idea, especially for tanks that have the means to control algae on its own. Whether it's bacteria, fish, inverts, biome, if there's not a good enough reason to disrupt the stability, I would definitely leave it alone.

Although if bubble algae is a thorn in your side, before resorting to changing the tanks chemistry, try to add a few emerald crabs. That would be the natural way to approach it.

This site seems to be bombarded with a specific nitrate and phosphate level to promote the best results. But you have to consider that most of the traffic this site gets are from people with new tanks that are battling algae outbreaks. For them, that advice is sound. But once a tank has matured, we'd be a fool to constantly try to force particular levels vs allowing them to find their natural spots. It's better in the long run.

 

[JohnNYC8]

Is the only reason why you want to lower it because you read that phosphate needs to be in a particular range?

I don't buy into that idea, especially for tanks that have the means to control algae on its own. Whether it's bacteria, fish, inverts, biome, if there's not a good enough reason to disrupt the stability, I would definitely leave it alone.

Although if bubble algae is a thorn in your side, before resorting to changing the tanks chemistry, tey to add a few emerald crabs. That would be the natural way to approach it.

This site seems to be bombarded with a specific nitrate and phosphate level to promote the best results. But you have to consider that most of the traffic this site gets are from people with new tanks that are battling algae outbreaks. For them, that advice is sound. But once a tank has matured, we'd be a fool to constantly try to force particular levels vs allowing them to fund their natural spot. It's better in the long run.

You make a very good point. I have read that phosphates above .1 inhibit stony coral skeletal growth. My tank is only 106 days old so it's far from mature. I had an ugly phase that was mostly a diatom dusting but I credit my copepods and small daily live phyto additions with helping that.

The theme for corals that have done poorly in my tank are LPS and a montipora (but this could be for any number of reasons). I currently have two space invader pectinia frags that are all puffed up and look happy but they were only added 3-4 weeks ago. I added an ice tort acropora last week and it seems to be doing fine but I know a week is nothing in this hobby. I actually have a tubipora (technically soft but builds a skeleton) that keeps laying down new skeleton no matter what my numbers are. It's also happily taking a lot of light at the top of my tank.

That white in the front should be a fresh batch of tubes in about a week's time

In the end, since I'm going for a mixed reef, I figure that I should get my phosphates around or below .1 to achieve good SPS growth. Maybe .3 isn't all that bad if the tubipora is laying down new skeleton?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I also believe that we attach a lot of anecdotal evidence to nitrates and Phosphates being the culprit.

I would lean towards higher phosphates can inhibit faster growth. But I've also experienced new corals that required months before they started to stabilize and start grow, while others take off right away.

I don't do anything to control nitrates and Phosphates. And at the time of this video, they were 0.76 and 53.


Most of what you see there is 1.5 years of growth from a reset from AEFW.

 

[JohnNYC8]

I also believe that we attach a lot of anecdotal evidence to nitrates and Phosphates being the culprit.

I would lean towards higher phosphates can inhibit faster growth. But I've also experienced new corals that required months before they started to stabilize and start grow, while others take off right away.

I don't do anything to control nitrates and Phosphates. And at the time of this video, they were 0.76 and 53.


Most of what you see there is 1.5 years of growth from a reset from AEFW.

Incredible tank! Thank you for the level-headed advice. I'll keep tracking my numbers but I won't obsess over them.

Also, I forgot to add that the LFS where I now buy all of my corals from told me their coral farm has phosphates of around .3 (but their display/frag/sales tanks are much lower). And I have coralline algae growth on my plastic powerhead so no inhibiting growth there.

 

[jda]

I don't have opinions for people anymore about what levels to keep phosphates, but I do keep mine pretty low.

The last thing that I would do is to cut back on feeing. The fish waste is the only sure thing that gets nitrogen to the corals and other forms of perhaps more available phosphorous. Always increase export over decreasing import.

Small amounts of GFO changed daily helps. Lanthanum Chloride can work, but comes with risks to fish and stuff - read well on it. Phosphate E is high priced aquarium Lanthanum Chloride.

Growth inhibition does not mean no growth, BTW. Some corals might never slow down and other might be impacted a lot. If you are happy with what you have, there is some Zen to that.

 

[JohnNYC8]

I don't have opinions for people anymore about what levels to keep phosphates, but I do keep mine pretty low.

The last thing that I would do is to cut back on feeing. The fish waste is the only sure thing that gets nitrogen to the corals and other forms of perhaps more available phosphorous. Always increase export over decreasing import.

Small amounts of GFO changed daily helps. Lanthanum Chloride can work, but comes with risks to fish and stuff - read well on it. Phosphate E is high priced aquarium Lanthanum Chloride.

Growth inhibition does not mean no growth, BTW. Some corals might never slow down and other might be impacted a lot. If you are happy with what you have, there is some Zen to that.

Thank you, jda, you have incredible corals. I'll skip the Lanthanum Chloride since it seems like an extreme move. If I do anything it'll be to grab another nylon bag to change out a tablespoon of Rowaphos daily.

The fish are fed and happy. They get some mysis in the morning and brine or pellets in the afternoon. It's tough to say but I'd give up all my corals before I give up one fish.

edit: the feeding I scaled back was coral feeding. I was stupidly feeding the corals like I had a fully-stocked reef.

 

[Court_Appointed_Hypeman]

If you really want to get it down, but not just strip them out and instead turn it into coral food, TM elimi NP is a good option. But I already have been using bacto balance and Plud-NP from their carbon dosing line. I like the results it has given me personally.

If you want to feel comfortable feeding more and not have them climb, that's what I would do.

 

[JohnNYC8]

If you really want to get it down, but not just strip them out and instead turn it into coral food, TM elimi NP is a good option. But I already have been using bacto balance and Plud-NP from their carbon dosing line. I like the results it has given me personally.

If you want to feel comfortable feeding more and not have them climb, that's what I would do.

Thank you. I really don't want to mess with my Nitrate because it has been consistently good. The highest I've measured is 18.5 and that was right before a water change.

 

[JohnNYC8]

Is the only reason why you want to lower it because you read that phosphate needs to be in a particular range?

I don't buy into that idea, especially for tanks that have the means to control algae on its own. Whether it's bacteria, fish, inverts, biome, if there's not a good enough reason to disrupt the stability, I would definitely leave it alone.

Although if bubble algae is a thorn in your side, before resorting to changing the tanks chemistry, try to add a few emerald crabs. That would be the natural way to approach it.

This site seems to be bombarded with a specific nitrate and phosphate level to promote the best results. But you have to consider that most of the traffic this site gets are from people with new tanks that are battling algae outbreaks. For them, that advice is sound. But once a tank has matured, we'd be a fool to constantly try to force particular levels vs allowing them to find their natural spots. It's better in the long run.

One question about going the emerald crab route: how reef safe are they in a 26 gallon tank without a ton of algae?

 

[jda]

They are not coral eaters, but they also will not starve without a fight. You and I would eat coral before we starved to death. Mine have never bothered coral, but I also overfeed the tank to keep all of my crabs and shrimp fed. Some people have had problems.

I have found that Emeralds from the Florida Keys will get right to work on bubble algae. Ones from other parts of the gulf are more hit-or-miss.

 

[JohnNYC8]

They are not coral eaters, but they also will not starve without a fight. You and I would eat coral before we starved to death. Mine have never bothered coral, but I also overfeed the tank to keep all of my crabs and shrimp fed. Some people have had problems.

I have found that Emeralds from the Florida Keys will get right to work on bubble algae. Ones from other parts of the gulf are more hit-or-miss.

Thank you again

 

[GrimReefer51]

I also believe that we attach a lot of anecdotal evidence to nitrates and Phosphates being the culprit.

I would lean towards higher phosphates can inhibit faster growth. But I've also experienced new corals that required months before they started to stabilize and start grow, while others take off right away.

I don't do anything to control nitrates and Phosphates. And at the time of this video, they were 0.76 and 53.


Most of what you see there is 1.5 years of growth from a reset from AEFW.

Growth seems nice but the colors are browned out. The same happens when I let my phosphates get high unfortunately.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Growth seems nice but the colors are browned out. The same happens when I let my phosphates get high unfortunately.

It could also be that I don't use an orange filter.

Can colors be better? I would venture to guess yes. But that's a string I'm unwilling to pull to disrupt the equilibrium that had been achieved.

 

[Miami Reef]

It could also be that I don't use an orange filter.

Can colors be better? I would venture to guess yes. But that's a string I'm unwilling to pull to disrupt the equilibrium that had been achieved.

What’s your current PO4 and NO3 level?

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

What’s your current PO4 and NO3 level?

Well, my hanna only goes to 0.9 and it's above that.