Sickness in QT- Ich Velvet or does it not matter?

[JBKReef]

Well first what I would consider a real "tank emergency" for myself.

A group of 5 Blue Reef Chromis went into QT about a week ago and are not doing so hot.


Last night I found one dead, I thought it had been bullied due to some physical damage I saw. I'm wondering now if this was damage due to flashing against stuff in the tank.

The fish finished up their first round of Prazi on Wednesday, I was going to do a water change then another round of prazi, then cuppramine. Well due to death, and now 2 of the 4 remaining Chromis flashing I am going to go straight for the Ich treatment.

I have two option Ich-X and Cuppramine. I usually would take 4-5 days to get up to therapeutic levels of copper however I'm not sure if I should be more aggressive. Would Ich-X be a temp solution quickly then I can do the full cuppramine treatment?

Would a freshwater dip be of any assistance?

Tagging #reefsquad cause I see it usually called into action for quick responses, regardless thanks for any guidance you have

JBKReef

 

[JBKReef]

The remaining fish are eating (frozen mysis) heartily so there is no problem there... and from what I can tell no labored breathing.

 

[JBKReef]

I do have another 20 gallon long up and running, which was originally a coral QT that had the back of corals moved into the DT about 2 weeks ago, Its still been running and cycled so I could do TTM but again not sure if I need more immediate action for the sickness thats obviously affecting the fish

 

[tastyfish]

Looks like velvet. Over what period did they look like this?

if you haven’t done so, then starting on Chloroquine or copper would be advised.

A freshwater dip will certainly help shed some of the parasite.

By the time you see laboured breathing, the chances of pulling them through are significant diminished IME.

 

[JBKReef]

Looks like velvet. Over what period did they look like this?

if you haven’t done so, then starting on Chloroquine or copper would be advised.

A freshwater dip will certainly help shed some of the parasite.

By the time you see laboured breathing, the chances of pulling them through are significant diminished IME.

I've only had the fish for about 10 days, they've been "cloudy" I guess you could say for a couple days but the specs did not show up till today.

They do not seem to be labored in their breathing unless you think what the video shows is labored?

Would you suggest to ramp up to a full dose immediately on the copper or stage it?

Thank you for your response @tastyfish

 

[JBKReef]

After reading some of @Humblefish material on Ich vs Velvet I believe its Velvet. The specs are too numerous to count, and last night while getting ready for bed I did notice they were acting sensitive to light. I thought this might have just been their "getting ready for bed" activity but who knows...

one of the write ups advises a freshwater dip, then a chemical bath, and then into CP.

I have plenty of freshwater, I have Ich-X which could be used as the bath, then into the cuppramine tank. Problem is I do not have time to ramp up the treatment and levels of copper. I'm going to feed them, hopefully they eat then jump in... wish me luck

 

[Maritimer]

You haven't much time to ramp copper with velvet (and I agree, on velvet...). You'll want to get to therapeutic levels of copper in 48 hours or less - your case seems to already be moderately advanced.

Ich-X isn't a preparation that's familiar to me. The "chemical bath" recommended is Acriflavin, which is a wonderful disinfectant, and will help heal the micro-wounds caused by the parasites.

~Bruce

 

[HotRocks]

Bruce has you taken care of.
5 Min Freshwater Dip (Temporary relief and removal of most attached parasites).
Then 90 minute bath in Acriflavine (Ruby Reef Rally seems to be the most available/easy to get product that contains acriflavine)
As Bruce said above, you will want to use Cupramine opposed to ich X. Get to therapeutic level within 48 hours. I highly recommend breaking up the total dosage up into as many small doses as you can throughout the day until you achieve the therapeutic level (Accelerated ramp up).

Cupramine would need to be dosed at the rate of .19ml per gallon to reach the therapeutic level of .5ppm. Make sure to test frequently, GOOD LUCK!

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

 

[tastyfish]

Personally I’d do freshwater dip immediately to give a little relief, (I use a acriflavine dip that has a little formalin) then into copper. If you have Chloroquine, then Personally I would use that instead, but do what you are comfortable with and have confidence in.

Unfortunately time is usually of the essence with velvet.

 

[JBKReef]

I greatly appreciate the advice everyone. I was breaking up the cupramine dosage up into 4 doses 6 hours apart however sometime between the second and third dose I lose my remaining 4 chromis.

Thankfully this was in my QT and not my DT. I guess I at least managed to head off trouble that way.

Lesson learned is to treat with copper immediately upon introduction to QT and not a “wait and see” approach. Also to keep Ruby Reef Rally on hand.

Thank you all again for the guidance and consistent message.

 

[HotRocks]

Sorry for your loss . Velvet is a quick killer it's a fact.

 

[tastyfish]

I greatly appreciate the advice everyone. I was breaking up the cupramine dosage up into 4 doses 6 hours apart however sometime between the second and third dose I lose my remaining 4 chromis.

Thankfully this was in my QT and not my DT. I guess I at least managed to head off trouble that way.

Lesson learned is to treat with copper immediately upon introduction to QT and not a “wait and see” approach. Also to keep Ruby Reef Rally on hand.

Thank you all again for the guidance and consistent message.

Sorry to hear that. I had exactly the same experience with wrasse in QT. First symptoms to mortality in under 48 hours.

I treat within a couple of days max now

 

[HotRocks]

Velvet multiplies rapidly. It can overwhelm an entire tank incredibly fast.

Wrasse are the hardest to spot symptoms alot of the time (not always). They have a very thick mucus coat. Making them seem resistant, it's just not visible.

 

[tastyfish]

Velvet multiplies rapidly. It can overwhelm an entire tank incredibly fast.

Wrasse are the hardest to spot symptoms alot of the time (not always). They have a very thick mucus coat. Making them seem resistant, it's just not visible.

I agree, there's a popular misconception that wrasse are immune or do not carry cryptocaryon or amyloodinium, however my experience with QT proves otherwise.

The very first symptoms were the mucus looking a little thicker (areas where is was a little whiter).

My new wrasse goes into treatment today having had 3 days to settle.

 

[JBKReef]

With the group I have on here I want to ask a follow up question....

The QT right now is obviously void of fish. For Velvet is there a timetable of how long I should wait to reintroduce fish into the tank? Its been running with Cupramine in the system for a little over 3 days.

For the Velvet parasites, how long can they survive without a fish?

I'm just curious as to what steps I should take to ensure the QT can be used again. Should I crash it down, vinegar it all, let it dry then start again? Let it run with the copper in the system for another 14 days and that will eradicate the Velvet then just do a 100% water change.

Curious on everyone opinion on what to do after the fact.

 

[HotRocks]

With the group I have on here I want to ask a follow up question....

The QT right now is obviously void of fish. For Velvet is there a timetable of how long I should wait to reintroduce fish into the tank? Its been running with Cupramine in the system for a little over 3 days.

For the Velvet parasites, how long can they survive without a fish?

I'm just curious as to what steps I should take to ensure the QT can be used again. Should I crash it down, vinegar it all, let it dry then start again? Let it run with the copper in the system for another 14 days and that will eradicate the Velvet then just do a 100% water change.

Curious on everyone opinion on what to do after the fact.

The fallow period for velvet is 6 weeks (Non Medicated)

If you want to eradicate it with copper, run it for 30 days total at the therapeutic level. Then you should be in the clear. (I would ghost feed every few days to keep bio filter in tact)

If you want to add fish sooner than 30 days, you can break it down, bleach it. Rinse well. Make sure it dries completely and you should be all clear. You would need to re-seed the tank with bacteria in a bottle or media from DT in order to make sure you have an established biofilter for ammonia control on next batch. Do not re use the media that was in the infected tank, unless you disinfect and completely dry.

 

[JBKReef]

I think I'll bleach it to be careful. Everything needed a good scrubbing anyways...

 

[Maritimer]

Probably the best course of action. Biofilms that build up in QT can reduce the effectiveness of some medications, so a good regular cleaning-out of the QT (bleach, vinegar, desiccation) goes a long way toward preserving its effectiveness (and clears you to try again sooner...).

~Bruce