sick clown:(/dino help

ellfe · Apr 22, 2024

parameters:
reef tank
fluval evo 13.5
start date: march 6 2024
phosphate: between .5 and 1.0
calcium: little over 450ppm
alkalinity: 10DKH
nitrates: 5ppm
tank residents: 2 clowns, 2 astrea snails, 1 fire shrimp
feeding: mysis shrimp, ocean nutrition reef flakes, 2x day

before reading on please note anything that I have not listed is because I am unable to.. i don't have a large test kit, and I am a very new reefer, please be nice to me

important: I have been dealing with a massive dinoflagellate outbreak in my tank. i asked on reddit and they told me my tank is new and TOO clean.. they have told me to stop doing water changes for the time being and stop cleaning the sides of the tank, so I have done so. i added copepods as well last week, I saw them the first day but I haven't seen them since. i bought the 2 snails and a UV sterilizer (I read on here that it will help) i put the sterilizer in yesterday in the back of the tank. GKM3W mini internal UV, hasn't helped yet

so about the clown:
not eating
white stringy poop (read that it was because he is not eating)
not exploring the tank as he usually does, sticking to his corner where he sleeps
yesterday, the first day I noticed an issue, he was swimming downwards behind the rockwork with his mouth open. he is still doing this but his mouth isn't open as much, he opens and closes it. day 2 (today) he is swimming around a bit more but sticking to the back of the tank, behind the rockwork, and where he sleeps. still swimming downwards behind the rock like yesterday
he is usually very gluttonous and eager to eat. he LOVES his food. this is day 2 of him not eating. the other clown is perfectly fine and swimming and eating normally.
any help is appreciated, thank you guys

Jay Hemdal · Apr 22, 2024

ellfe Welcome to the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis Forum!

The #fishmedic team and other knowledgeable members of our community will do our best to help you resolve your questions. Please provide as much of the following as you are able:

Brief description of the issue you are observing and answers to the following questions:
- How long have you had the fish with the condition?
- Did you quarantine with medication when you first acquired the fish? (If Yes, which medication?)
Current water quality measurements
Clear photos of the issue taken using WHITE light and/or a short video of any behaviors (post in your response or on YouTube).

If you can help us by providing as much of the above info as possible, it will make diagnosing and providing recommendations for treatment MUCH easier! The Fish Medic team will get back to you as quickly as possible. In the meantime, other members of our community may also share their experience with similar situations and advice that they may have regarding your situation.

You may also feel free to provide a more detailed description of the condition if you wish to share more info than the above list.

Additionally, these links may be useful while you await a response:

vetteguy53081 · Apr 22, 2024

ellfe said:
parameters:
reef tank
fluval evo 13.5
start date: march 6 2024
phosphate: between .5 and 1.0
calcium: little over 450ppm
alkalinity: 10DKH
nitrates: 5ppm
tank residents: 2 clowns, 2 astrea snails, 1 fire shrimp
feeding: mysis shrimp, ocean nutrition reef flakes, 2x day

before reading on please note anything that I have not listed is because I am unable to.. i don't have a large test kit, and I am a very new reefer, please be nice to me

important: I have been dealing with a massive dinoflagellate outbreak in my tank. i asked on reddit and they told me my tank is new and TOO clean.. they have told me to stop doing water changes for the time being and stop cleaning the sides of the tank, so I have done so. i added copepods as well last week, I saw them the first day but I haven't seen them since. i bought the 2 snails and a UV sterilizer (I read on here that it will help) i put the sterilizer in yesterday in the back of the tank. GKM3W mini internal UV, hasn't helped yet

so about the clown:
not eating
white stringy poop (read that it was because he is not eating)
not exploring the tank as he usually does, sticking to his corner where he sleeps
yesterday, the first day I noticed an issue, he was swimming downwards behind the rockwork with his mouth open. he is still doing this but his mouth isn't open as much, he opens and closes it. day 2 (today) he is swimming around a bit more but sticking to the back of the tank, behind the rockwork, and where he sleeps. still swimming downwards behind the rock like yesterday
he is usually very gluttonous and eager to eat. he LOVES his food. this is day 2 of him not eating. the other clown is perfectly fine and swimming and eating normally.
any help is appreciated, thank you guys

This is bruising which has been discussed amongst the medic team. As you can imagine, its more distinct with white skin color. These lesion do not break the skin but are very noticeable and we find the fish either recovers on its own or does not.
Ive seen few fatalities from this and best chance of recovering from it is to maintain optimum water quality and diet and you can even safely add Ruby rally pro which may help. Its best to purchase Tank Raised versus wild caught clowns but this has been seen in tank raised and may be in part from overbreeding . As for Dino which this appears to be, its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and often you will see low nutrient levels when discovered.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

ellfe · Apr 22, 2024

vetteguy53081 said:
This is bruising which has been discussed amongst the medic team. As you can imagine, its more distinct with white skin color. These lesion do not break the skin but are very noticeable and we find the fish either recovers on its own or does not.
Ive seen few fatalities from this and best chance of recovering from it is to maintain optimum water quality and diet and you can even safely add Ruby rally pro which may help. Its best to purchase Tank Raised versus wild caught clowns but this has been seen in tank raised and may be in part from overbreeding . As for Dino which this appears to be, its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and often you will see low nutrient levels when discovered.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.
Doing a daily siphoning will help greatly But . . . . . Siphoning will reduce nutrients , so siphon the water into/through a filter sock and save the water and return it back to tank. Obviously clean the filter sock each time.
You can feed fish as normal and if doing blackout, ambient light in room will work for them

where is the bruising if i can ask? if you mean on his tail he has always had a black spot there
also I cannot adjust the light, the fluval light is either white, blue, or off. i have zoa rastas and a rhodactus mushroom

vetteguy53081 · Apr 22, 2024

ellfe said:
where is the bruising if i can ask? if you mean on his tail he has always had a black spot there
also I cannot adjust the light, the fluval light is either white, blue, or off. i have zoa rastas and a rhodactus mushroom

By the tail yes and the light may be throwing this off. On not eating, Dinos often release low level toxins which often has no effect but not sure if your parameters are accurate but follow the dino treatment which will quickly reduce any issues with water chemistry and go away

ellfe · Apr 22, 2024

that black area has always been there since the day I got him its on both sides of the tail
I don't get how he's not eating

Jay Hemdal · Apr 23, 2024

ellfe said:
that black area has always been there since the day I got him its on both sides of the tail
I don't get how he's not eating

The clownfish may have that bruising issue, I can't tell for sure, but since the cause of that isn't known, and because that does not cause stringy feces, then we can ignore that issue for now.....

With only the one clown affected, and the other being completely fine, you can rule out water quality issues.

Mucus feces/rapid breathing can have many different causes, we see this in new clownfish a lot, but solving the issue is a challenge. There are some non-treatable issues that cannot be identified - viral disease, as well as internal protozoans.

If you had a treatment tank, I would suggest trying metronidazole, but you cannot use that with invertebrates in the tank.

ellfe · Apr 23, 2024

Jay Hemdal said:
The clownfish may have that bruising issue, I can't tell for sure, but since the cause of that isn't known, and because that does not cause stringy feces, then we can ignore that issue for now.....

With only the one clown affected, and the other being completely fine, you can rule out water quality issues.

Mucus feces/rapid breathing can have many different causes, we see this in new clownfish a lot, but solving the issue is a challenge. There are some non-treatable issues that cannot be identified - viral disease, as well as internal protozoans.

If you had a treatment tank, I would suggest trying metronidazole, but you cannot use that with invertebrates in the tank.

i don’t have any other tanks- i’m brand new, is there anything i can do? i mean i can buy whatever, i just don’t have a ton of money, whatever will make her eat again
today is day 3 of her not eating
maybe this video will help?
is it because i just added the new fish? i added him april 16th but that was a bit ago and she’s just now doing bad

Jay Hemdal · Apr 24, 2024

ellfe said:
i don’t have any other tanks- i’m brand new, is there anything i can do? i mean i can buy whatever, i just don’t have a ton of money, whatever will make her eat again
today is day 3 of her not eating
maybe this video will help?
is it because i just added the new fish? i added him april 16th but that was a bit ago and she’s just now doing bad

Sorry - there just isn't any treatment you can use in tanks with invertebrates. Also, two of the issues that could be causing this have no known treatment.

I don't believe the new fish directly caused this, because if it had brought a disease into your tank, it would be showing the same symptoms. I don't think the two fish are fighting because I don't see any fin damage.

ellfe · Apr 24, 2024

Jay Hemdal said:
Sorry - there just isn't any treatment you can use in tanks with invertebrates. Also, two of the issues that could be causing this have no known treatment.

I don't believe the new fish directly caused this, because if it had brought a disease into your tank, it would be showing the same symptoms. I don't think the two fish are fighting because I don't see any fin damage.

i think my lfs has quarantine tanks, what is it that you suggest? can you link me?

Jay Hemdal · Apr 24, 2024

ellfe said:
i think my lfs has quarantine tanks, what is it that you suggest? can you link me?

I’m thinking you should try metronidazole in the water of a quarantine tank.

Nick Steele · Apr 24, 2024

Just my opinion here.

If it’s only been 3 days I’d say just continue to feed how you have been before he stoped. Maybe try a homemade food with squid/clams etc. I have seen clowns not eat for over a week and bounce back perfectly fine and start laying eggs again. Your fish doesn’t seem to be losing weight either which is a good sign also!

ellfe · Apr 29, 2024

update; still not eating, fins are clamped now
but seems to kick around sand just fine.. so confusing

ellfe · May 1, 2024

ok i think im lost
still not eating
at first i thought he was a female.., showing dominant traits such as eating first, chasing the smaller clown. no nipping at all
now he is showing submissive traits such as twitching and nesting.. they don’t fight at all, so what’s going on and why is he still not eating?
does anyone else have any advice ?

TangerineSpeedo · May 1, 2024

Just throwing this out there... The bigger clown will usually be the female. If this clown was male and now is the bigger clown maybe it is changing to female. Maybe that is effecting what is going on. Totally a hypothesis...
You can get a 5g or 10g and a filter from petco for cheap if you need to treat him/her/they. Better yet, someones failed attempt on offer up. Tank, HOB cheap filter and a air stone.

Jay Hemdal · May 1, 2024

ellfe said:
ok i think im lost
still not eating
at first i thought he was a female.., showing dominant traits such as eating first, chasing the smaller clown. no nipping at all
now he is showing submissive traits such as twitching and nesting.. they don’t fight at all, so what’s going on and why is he still not eating?
does anyone else have any advice ?