ReefPup
Community Member
I have a 32 gallon tank with a 10 gallon sump I am ordering 5lbs of kp aquatics rubble to seed my dry rock. Is it beneficial for me to also dump in turbo start to help diversify my bacterial population?
Should i use fritz turbostart and live rock together?
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It will not hurt. Just follow the directions and use a good tester for Ammonia, Nitrites and Nitrates.
ReefPup
Community Member
I have a hanna marine master.
Uncle99
10K Club member
That’s just fine.
I used turbo start 900 when I cycled my last tank using dry rock with live rock rubble. It was my first time using using bottled bac and I have to say I was impressed with the results. Previously I had always used house hold ammonia with no additive which works but the turbo start really sped things up.
Save your money and don't buy the Fritz Turbostart. It's a single bacteria strain that will work quickly to cycle a tank and allow you to add fish quickly. It does not have bacteria that will add diversity to your tank. The KPA rubble will have natural diversity because it's coming from the ocean, that's all you need and exactly what you want.
Here's some actual research on the effectiveness of the Fritz compared to Ocean Direct live sand, which is similar to your KPA rubble.
After 40 years keeping reef tanks I prefer science to anecdotal answers.
Here's some actual research on the effectiveness of the Fritz compared to Ocean Direct live sand, which is similar to your KPA rubble.
After 40 years keeping reef tanks I prefer science to anecdotal answers.
ReefPup
Community Member
So only add the rubble? Will i be able to add a fish day one or do I need to wait for the rock to cure in the system before adding fish. I'm just worried cause I will be ordering a fish from Dr reef so I don't want the rock to cure then I don't get a fish in there fast enough for it supply ammonia.
You may have a short cycle in the tank, say 2-3 days, because the rubble has some die off after being shipped.
You need sufficient denitrifying bacteria established to break down the ammonia from the fish and any invertebrates you add. The rubble introduces that and the dry rock eventually hosts it as it the population grows.
Do you have test kits to check for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate ?
Do you understand how to cycle a tank ?
You need sufficient denitrifying bacteria established to break down the ammonia from the fish and any invertebrates you add. The rubble introduces that and the dry rock eventually hosts it as it the population grows.
Do you have test kits to check for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate ?
Do you understand how to cycle a tank ?
ReefPup
Community Member
I have a hanna marine master. And yes I understand the nitrogen cycle. The question I had is say my tank cycles in a few days and then I order a fish and it won't be in for 2 weeks. Will that 2 weeks of no ammonia added due to no fish kill all the beneficial bacteria because they have nothing to eat.
Oh cool. The marine master is great.
So to answer your question, yes and no. There is likely enough decaying life on the rubble to provide some ammonia for at least a week. That will feed the bacteria enough to sustain it but it won't necessarily be enough to help it grow and establish itself throughout the tank.
You can error on the side of caution and dose ammonia to keep the tank growing a larger body of bacteria.
FWIW I have a 20 gal nano that I set up in March with live sand and dry rock. It cycled in about 3 weeks with nothing else added. Then I started dosing ammonia and have never added fish. I started adding corals and a clean up crew and they're all doing great. I just dose ammonia daily. I will add fish but I thought I was going to have to travel and so I waited just to keep it simpler to maintain remotely. Now I'm in no hurry to add fish because the corals are growing, Coraline is growing and all I need to do is dose ammonia.
So to answer your question, yes and no. There is likely enough decaying life on the rubble to provide some ammonia for at least a week. That will feed the bacteria enough to sustain it but it won't necessarily be enough to help it grow and establish itself throughout the tank.
You can error on the side of caution and dose ammonia to keep the tank growing a larger body of bacteria.
FWIW I have a 20 gal nano that I set up in March with live sand and dry rock. It cycled in about 3 weeks with nothing else added. Then I started dosing ammonia and have never added fish. I started adding corals and a clean up crew and they're all doing great. I just dose ammonia daily. I will add fish but I thought I was going to have to travel and so I waited just to keep it simpler to maintain remotely. Now I'm in no hurry to add fish because the corals are growing, Coraline is growing and all I need to do is dose ammonia.
Technically the tank will be cycled as soon as you add the LR rubble and could support a fish or two. However, there might be an ammonia spike as mentioned, but it should clear up quickly depending on the amount of die off if any. The main question is how big a fish or how many that 5lbs of rubble will sustain. I'd wait a few days before adding to side on caution.
LR has all the bacteria on it that it needs to maintain the nitrogen cycle. It only needs to spread/grow to new surfaces. I'd just add some flake food once or twice while you wait on fish.
LR has all the bacteria on it that it needs to maintain the nitrogen cycle. It only needs to spread/grow to new surfaces. I'd just add some flake food once or twice while you wait on fish.
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When I started my new 72g, I used multiple different types of bottled bacteria along with a consistent dosing schedule of phyto and pods. 2 weeks after starting the dosing of all of the above, I added fish and it's been off to the races. Over a month later and I barely had a diatom bloom. I really contribute it to the influx of bacteria/phyto/pods/live sand from the get go.
ReefPup
Community Member
What kind of ammonia would you suggest I dose?
ReefPup
Community Member
I am going to start with an elegant firefish
Ammonium Chloride is the best choice. You can buy it here. and read RHF's thread about why you might want to continue to use it even after adding fish.
A firefish is a fairly delicate fish if wild caught, can be a picky eater. It's good to add it first but if you're buying from a LFS be sure it's eating.
A firefish is a fairly delicate fish if wild caught, can be a picky eater. It's good to add it first but if you're buying from a LFS be sure it's eating.
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ReefPup
Community Member
Ill be ordering it from dr reefs pre quarantined. How much of the trisodium phosphate would you add. Could I just add a block of frozen food to add ammonia.
Spare time
10K Club member
Trisodium phosphate isn't an ammonia source
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I'm sorry, why do you want to add trisodium phosphate to your tank? This molecule contains zero nitrogen, and will not add ammonia to your tank.
I'd suggest this:
https://www.chewy.com/dr-tims-aquat...VVSKC8ZL8WyaCmNa6yr4FhKr8w1rpUNhoChtEQAvD_BwE
And yes, you can use fish food as a source of ammonia.
ReefPup
Community Member
Because the person said that that's a good source of ammonia. I didn't come up with that lol.
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I get that lol!
And that reefer may indeed have a lot of experience, but TSP is not a source of ammonia - there is zero for nitrogen in its makeup:
Trisodium Phasphate - Na3PO4 << That's sodium, potasium, and oxygen ions. No nitrogen means no nitrogenous waste. And, although a molecule, TSP would be inorganic as it has no carbon or even hydrogen. Ammonia comes from organic waste and fish metabolic waste.
Furthermore, ammonia dosing is, to me, an advanced topic typically for reefers who have been at this a while, and struggle to keep nutrient levels up in their tank. If you're just getting started, and with a modest sized 32 gallon tank, I think you'll more than likely struggle to keep nutrients down. That's not me trying to sound negative or condescending, it's just true
I would concentrate on getting your tank running and fully cycled, and if in the future you feel you need to, you can start to dose ammonia.
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