Seeking Advice - First Tank Lights: Kessil A360X vs A500X --- $1,200 vs $1,800 - are SPS supporting lights worth it as a beginner?

[Pepper Reefer]

Hello, thank you very much in advance for your advice.

Background:
I am buying the first lights for my 75 gallon reef (48 x 18 x 20 in)
My tank has a wide, center support brace on top - other pictures I've seen with tanks with a similar brace using a single 'rectangle' LED light to cover the whole tank seem to cast a large shadow from the brace, compared to having 2 lights, 1 to cover both 'compartments' on either side of the brace

Kessils also seem to be a good option for me, as longterm if I were to upgrade to a 120-180 gallon I could still use the two Kessils one on a frag tank & one on a quarantine tank, or use them to supplement the lighting for the larger display

I have heard many people say throughout the hobby that having SPS coral should not be rushed, that for many new reefers it could be 2 years before their tank may be ready to have SPS (with many exceptions, of course)
At the same time, reading reviews for Kessils, it seems like many of them break after 2 years

With these two things in mind, I am wondering if it's worth it then to get the two A500X for $1,800 which could potentially give out and break by the time I'm advancing to SPS compared to just get two A360X for $1,200 which can support LPS and soft coral

I have seen people speculate that the reason the Kessils may break after 2 years is that many people are running them at 100% intensity - perhaps while I am 'learning to walk' with soft coral and LPS the A500X lights would be on much lower intensity, and with regular maintenance they could last through me advancing to keeping SPS?

I'm sorry to ramble - my question is whether it's "worth it" to get lights that can support SPS from the get go, or if it's a 'waste' and to just get lights that can support LPS and soft coral as a beginner
In general, I would rather buy the superior item once, than planned obsolescence where I have to upgrade in a year or two and end up paying 2x

If you could do it over again / were in my position, what would you buy? Two A360X or two A500X?

Any advice / recommendations would be very much appreciated! I think I am set on the Kessils as I really like the shimmer, but if you have another you'd suggest I would be open to check it out!

 

[slythy]

Ive had some good sps growth (once i got my tank sorted) with 2 xr15’s and a 4x36” t5 hybrid setup. Think im at a little over $1000 for the setup. T5’s cant be beat honestly. Look at my build

i have on my planted tank kessil 360 tuna suns that are at 60% and they are aproaching 7 years old and only had to take 1 apart to blue dust out of it.

 

[flagg37]

I’ve been running ap700’s for years (2 new and 2 used). I don’t know where the expectation that they are likely to break after two years is coming from. Aside from this, the 360’s should be fine to grow sps. I’d only be looking into the 500 if you have a deep tank. I’ve been planning a tank that has a 36” depth and was looking at the 500.

If I was in your position I wouldn’t hesitate getting a couple used 360’s and when you’re starting to stock your sps then just replace them with new if and when they go out. I’m not doubting your resilience to the hobby but the average length of time people keep a tank is like 18 months.

 

[Pepper Reefer]

I’ve been running ap700’s for years (2 new and 2 used). I don’t know where the expectation that they are likely to break after two years is coming from. Aside from this, the 360’s should be fine to grow sps. I’d only be looking into the 500 if you have a deep tank. I’ve been planning a tank that has a 36” depth and was looking at the 500.

If I was in your position I wouldn’t hesitate getting a couple used 360’s and when you’re starting to stock your sps then just replace them with new if and when they go out. I’m not doubting your resilience to the hobby but the average length of time people keep a tank is like 18 months.

Thank you for the input Slythy and Flagg!
I have just read a lot of reviews saying that they stopped working after 2 years (but I suppose people are more likely to write a review if something goes wrong!) it is good to hear from you guys that yours have lasted for a long time

>I’d only be looking into the 500 if you have a deep tank.
From a lot of the videos of BRS demos for the A360X
(5:14)
at 6" mounting height with 100% intensity the PAR is ~268 at max only in the center, where it drops off to ~150 for most of the coverage
I don't think that ~150 PAR would be sufficient for the SPS I want to keep longterm
whereas with the A500X you can be hitting 200-250+ everywhere, and I wouldn't have to have it at 100% intensity (which I imagine would help it last longer!)

 

[Fish Styx]

If you are just starting out, like others have said, be conservative about your spending until you decide that this is the right hobby for you, long term.

The 360's are fine and will grow anything you want. That being said, unless you have your heart set on them, why don't you check out the 3rd gen NooPsyche K7 pros. Don't confuse inexpensive with "cheap". They are compact, powerful, and push out a tremendous amount of par. In fact, I just replaced my aging 360s with them. Two for your 75 gallon would suffice, and at a fraction of the cost of the other options.

@Zach B is the exclusive North American distributor for them and he can answer any questions you may have to help you make an educated purchase.

 

[Jekyl]

Why not 1 ap9x? If worried about shading some LED strips or t5 hybrid would be cheaper and more efficient.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello, thank you very much in advance for your advice.

Background:
I am buying the first lights for my 75 gallon reef (48 x 18 x 20 in)
My tank has a wide, center support brace on top - other pictures I've seen with tanks with a similar brace using a single 'rectangle' LED light to cover the whole tank seem to cast a large shadow from the brace, compared to having 2 lights, 1 to cover both 'compartments' on either side of the brace

Kessils also seem to be a good option for me, as longterm if I were to upgrade to a 120-180 gallon I could still use the two Kessils one on a frag tank & one on a quarantine tank, or use them to supplement the lighting for the larger display

I have heard many people say throughout the hobby that having SPS coral should not be rushed, that for many new reefers it could be 2 years before their tank may be ready to have SPS (with many exceptions, of course)
At the same time, reading reviews for Kessils, it seems like many of them break after 2 years

With these two things in mind, I am wondering if it's worth it then to get the two A500X for $1,800 which could potentially give out and break by the time I'm advancing to SPS compared to just get two A360X for $1,200 which can support LPS and soft coral

I have seen people speculate that the reason the Kessils may break after 2 years is that many people are running them at 100% intensity - perhaps while I am 'learning to walk' with soft coral and LPS the A500X lights would be on much lower intensity, and with regular maintenance they could last through me advancing to keeping SPS?

I'm sorry to ramble - my question is whether it's "worth it" to get lights that can support SPS from the get go, or if it's a 'waste' and to just get lights that can support LPS and soft coral as a beginner
In general, I would rather buy the superior item once, than planned obsolescence where I have to upgrade in a year or two and end up paying 2x

If you could do it over again / were in my position, what would you buy? Two A360X or two A500X?

Any advice / recommendations would be very much appreciated! I think I am set on the Kessils as I really like the shimmer, but if you have another you'd suggest I would be open to check it out!

As a comparison to Kessils with more depth penetration and shimmer, consider noopsyche K7 pros but a couple other options are Two Orphek OR3-120 bars (sky blue and blue plus) and also two Ai Hydra 26 or 32 HD

 

[areefer01]

Not sure on your prices but a Kessil a360x is about 450 US. Also note they don't break after X number of years nor do most other quality kits. Things do break and hobbyist do not do routine maintenance which can attribute to issues but Kessil doesn't just randomly break. I own 4 a360x and can report 1 issue that their support team cross shipped me a replacement, during the peak of covid, in 24 hours.

Ignoring brand for a minute taking stock of what you want to keep is a must. Your doing that. Today vs tomorrow planning is important as you can buy for tomorrow but set intensity power for today. You don't need to run power 100%. Sizing is important to allow flexibly and growth.

You can look at the Kessil, Radion, Sky's and other large brand but I'd also recommend you taking a look at the Reef Fi 2.0 kits. You will come in under your price point based on the reviews I've read from a few trusted hobbyist. I've personally not used them but if I was to buy new lights 'today' they would be in my list to look at.

I like Kessil. I like Neptune Sky's. I like my DIY kits. I also liked my older back in the day 175W MH kits. But the long and short of it is don't get caught up in social media presentations and content. Look at the brands, look at your requirements, and other than that look at the Reef Fi 2.0 kits as I don't see that mentioned.

All the best. Remember you don't need to go to 11. You can turn the dial down a bit until you are ready...

 

[Pepper Reefer]

Thank you for all your input everyone! I really appreciate it

Why not 1 ap9x? If worried about shading some LED strips or t5 hybrid would be cheaper and more efficient.

I was under the impression that even with the AP9X I would need 2 for sufficient coverage for 48" x 18" to grow SPS on the edges, and with my tank depth only 20 inches max it didn't seem worth it, when I could achieve the PAR needed for SPS with the two A500X
I also would worry about the shading - I don't think I could fit an LED under the brace as I've seen others on reef2reef do to fix the shade spot; whereas with 2 lights in each 'section' on either side I don't think there would be as much of a shading problem
I feel like if I were to get a single AP9X I would end up needing to supplement it and spend more defeating the purpose

Not sure on your prices but a Kessil a360x is about 450 US. Also note they don't break after X number of years nor do most other quality kits. Things do break and hobbyist do not do routine maintenance which can attribute to issues but Kessil doesn't just randomly break. I own 4 a360x and can report 1 issue that their support team cross shipped me a replacement, during the peak of covid, in 24 hours.

Ignoring brand for a minute taking stock of what you want to keep is a must. Your doing that. Today vs tomorrow planning is important as you can buy for tomorrow but set intensity power for today. You don't need to run power 100%. Sizing is important to allow flexibly and growth.

You can look at the Kessil, Radion, Sky's and other large brand but I'd also recommend you taking a look at the Reef Fi 2.0 kits. You will come in under your price point based on the reviews I've read from a few trusted hobbyist. I've personally not used them but if I was to buy new lights 'today' they would be in my list to look at.

I like Kessil. I like Neptune Sky's. I like my DIY kits. I also liked my older back in the day 175W MH kits. But the long and short of it is don't get caught up in social media presentations and content. Look at the brands, look at your requirements, and other than that look at the Reef Fi 2.0 kits as I don't see that mentioned.

All the best. Remember you don't need to go to 11. You can turn the dial down a bit until you are ready...

>Prices
All included, with the mounts + wifi dongle + cables etc - from Bulkreefsupply
All included two A360X = $1,116.05
Two A500X = $1,931.19
(attached pictures)
I appreciate you all looking to save me $$$ before a quick burn out of the hobby that so many go through! haha.
I have already spent ~$5,000 on the tank + accessories combined, where there is no turning back now! It doesn't make sense to me to 'cheap out' on the lights when they will have such a large impact both on the health + growth of my corals + what I visually see most of the time, nor do I want to buy something 'inadequate' now to have to upgrade it in a year or two

Your point on lowering intensity is really what makes me lean toward the A500X, where I could lower the intensity at the beginning when I am only keeping soft + LPS, and then longterm increase the intensity when my tank is ready to support SPS

>Neptune Sky
I have read some reviews talking about that they had bad electrical engineering design - where a reefer took it to their electrical engineer relative who said "Wow, they really didn't do a good job with this design!" -- something something that they put a job listing out for a new EE --- I have no idea the veracity of this discussion or the ins and outs of EE design for lighting.. but this + the higher price made me not want to get it (also that the shimmer on the kessils is supposed to be better?)
post I'm referencing:

New Neptune Sky...or?

A VP I worked for had a great saying..."you can't bake baby's to see what old men will look like". Agreed. However, if you know what the old man (failure mode) will look like, you can often create conditions to grow the baby into the old man. That's often not an easy task, though. And I'm...

www.reef2reef.com

Thank you for the list of lights to research, everyone!
>Reef Fi 2.0
>noopsyche K7 pros
>Orphek OR3-120 bars
>Ai Hydra 26 or 32 HD
>xr15’s and a 4x36” t5 hybrid

 

[billyocean]

I grow acros extremely well with viparspectra "black boxes" so you dont need pricey lights to be successful. The number one factor is water quality (paramaters/nutrients)...then flow/lights (2a 2b).

 

[areefer01]

>Prices
All included, with the mounts + wifi dongle + cables etc - from Bulkreefsupply
All included two A360X = $1,116.05
Two A500X = $1,931.19
(attached pictures)
I appreciate you all looking to save me $$$ before a quick burn out of the hobby that so many go through! haha.
I have already spent ~$5,000 on the tank + accessories combined, where there is no turning back now! It doesn't make sense to me to 'cheap out' on the lights when they will have such a large impact both on the health + growth of my corals + what I visually see most of the time, nor do I want to buy something 'inadequate' now to have to upgrade it in a year or two

Buying a kit - got it. Makes sense.

Your point on lowering intensity is really what makes me lean toward the A500X, where I could lower the intensity at the beginning when I am only keeping soft + LPS, and then longterm increase the intensity when my tank is ready to support SPS

Not sure I'd go with the a500x but that would depend on your display. You can get coverage but in my opinion it is something I would go to if I had a deep display (greater than 30"). Otherwise you end up mounting it super high which to me says it is the wrong tool for the job.

>Neptune Sky
I have read some reviews talking about that they had bad electrical engineering design - where a reefer took it to their electrical engineer relative who said "Wow, they really didn't do a good job with this design!" -- something something that they put a job listing out for a new EE --- I have no idea the veracity of this discussion or the ins and outs of EE design for lighting.. but this + the higher price made me not want to get it (also that the shimmer on the kessils is supposed to be better?)
post I'm referencing:

New Neptune Sky...or?

A VP I worked for had a great saying..."you can't bake baby's to see what old men will look like". Agreed. However, if you know what the old man (failure mode) will look like, you can often create conditions to grow the baby into the old man. That's often not an easy task, though. And I'm...

www.reef2reef.com

Note I don't recommend kits because each display is different just as hobbyist experiences are. Review posts around this forum, or others, with hobbyist using the same product yet have totally different experiences. The SKY's are fine and the SKY didn't fall. We can just leave it at that.

If you are still doing some research use your favorite search engine, put in ReeFi Uno 2.0 Pro @telegraham and take a look at his assessment. If your mind is already made up then ignore. Otherwise you may have something else on the list to build your pro and con for decisions.

 

[Pepper Reefer]

I really appreciate your help!

Not sure I'd go with the a500x but that would depend on your display. You can get coverage but in my opinion it is something I would go to if I had a deep display (greater than 30"). Otherwise you end up mounting it super high which to me says it is the wrong tool for the job.

Couldn't I just run it at lower intensity? My hope is to have the PAR 200+ at the top of the tank, and ~100 at the bottom of the tank (20" deep) for mixed reef
I don't think I could achieve this with the A360X

 

[areefer01]

I really appreciate your help!


Couldn't I just run it at lower intensity? My hope is to have the PAR 200+ at the top of the tank, and ~100 at the bottom of the tank (20" deep) for mixed reef
I don't think I could achieve this with the A360X

You can always run kits at lower intensity assuming you have the spread you are looking for. You can also mount kits higher or lower to get spread and/or PAR. Just depends really. Kessil one up's by optional lens (come with the a500x by default I think, not sure) which can affect coverage (spread and depth).

As you look around the web you will see people have success running all sorts of kits. They work. Some just make more dollars and sense than others.

 

[flyfisher2]

You probably pulled the trigger on the lights you wanted by now but I figured I'd add my experiences and opinions just incase.
I run Two Kessil Ap9x's over a 59X24X24
I just recently added 4 T5's retrofit to my canopy to deal with the shadowing from the acropora's
As far as color and shimmer,It's my opinion that Kessil rules.
I run three X15's on a tank the exact same size using the AB+ spectrum and it looks good and grows coral with more even lighting. It's all about what you want.

The 500 is a great light for a deeper tank. Keep in mind two 500's are TWO point sources. Two Ap9x's are Four point sources. More even and less shotgun lighting.
You will not be getting the full potential of the lights with a shallow tank.
AP9X would be much more than sufficient on a tank that size. And that would be my choice if I were just looking at Kessil's
If you're open to other brands then you have a lot of homework and hopefully you'll see the lights in person prior to purchase.
Good luck and let us know your final decision.

 

[Pepper Reefer]

You probably pulled the trigger on the lights you wanted by now but I figured I'd add my experiences and opinions just incase.
I run Two Kessil Ap9x's over a 59X24X24
I just recently added 4 T5's retrofit to my canopy to deal with the shadowing from the acropora's
As far as color and shimmer,It's my opinion that Kessil rules.
I run three X15's on a tank the exact same size using the AB+ spectrum and it looks good and grows coral with more even lighting. It's all about what you want.

The 500 is a great light for a deeper tank. Keep in mind two 500's are TWO point sources. Two Ap9x's are Four point sources. More even and less shotgun lighting.
You will not be getting the full potential of the lights with a shallow tank.
AP9X would be much more than sufficient on a tank that size. And that would be my choice if I were just looking at Kessil's
If you're open to other brands then you have a lot of homework and hopefully you'll see the lights in person prior to purchase.
Good luck and let us know your final decision.

Thank you for the feedback!
I ended up getting two XR30 G6 Pros
I wanted to follow the lighting that WWC uses, two horizontal XR30 pros enable me to cover both sides of my 75 gallon (crossbar) and in the future if I upgrade to 125 or larger I felt that the XR30's would give me the best ability to upsize my tank, where I could get more XR30s and turn them vertically
I felt like at the end of the day I was going to be spending around $2,000 for the lights for my 75 gallon, either with a Kessil T5 combination, or getting two AP9X, or two XR30 G6 - so I bit the bullet and went for the XR30s

I have no complaints about them - only good things to say
With that said, I have no coral in my display yet - all of my coral is still in their QT (which is using a Kessil A160WE TB) 15 gallon AOI innovative marine
First batch of QT'd coral will be done in about 45 days
So I cannot speak to how they are for my coral
But I was able to set them up where I could be getting PAR of 200-300 in the sections of my tank that I wanted to, and 100-150 in the sections that I wanted as well for my mixed reef goals
I am following the WWC spectrum for their 75 gallon found here:

LED Lighting Presets

Download our LED Lighting Schedules EcoTech Mobius 1200g Lagoon Mobius Schedule - LPS Reef Download Now 1500g Reef Mobius Schedule - SPS Dominant Download Now 100g Reef Mobius Schedule - Mixed Reef Download Now Download our LED Lighting Schedules EcoTech Radion 1200g Lagoon Radion Schedule...

worldwidecorals.com

42/42/42/42/4/2/4/6 from 8 to 12 (with ramps)
44/44/44/44/0/0/0/0 from 12 to 8 (with ramps)
Gives me this:

Which I'm happy with, as I can have my euphyllia garden on the left side as planned, zoas on the sand bed islands as planned, space for clove polyps, duncans, acans, candy cane -- and then long, longterm when I'm ready there are some sections for lower PAR demanding SPS (200-300 range)

 

[flyfisher2]

That is great!!!
Love the way you’re organizing everything ahead of time.
You are a hobbyist with a plan!
Take your time
Visualize it in your mind and be your own worst critic.
I promise you that you’ll eliminate lots of misfortune.
Seems we are in the same boat as far as setting up a tank .
My display tank is doing well at this point with Kessil and t5 combo
The Other display which has been FOWLR for close to a year now is finally ready for some corals.
That one has three Xr15 Pros