Sailfin Tang Rapid Breathing

[hunterallen40]

Hi all,

I'm really struggling to diagnose what's wrong with my sailfin tang.

Video here, for reference.

New video by Hunter Allen

photos.app.goo.gl

This tang is breathing very quickly, which is definitely quite concerning to me. On Saturday I brought an info hammer home from my LFS. I had not introduced anything for the two weeks leading up to this, so I suspect something hitchhiked in on the coral (though I don't know what). The next day I noticed my tang breathing very rapidly, and I saw the tang and my melanurus wrasse flashing on the rocks. After I noticed this, I suspected gill flukes and dosed the tank with prazipro.

The treatment stayed in the water until Wednesday, when a water change occured and carbon was added to remove the medication.

My wrasse was really not happy about it, it didn't come out of the sand Wednesday and just showed up again this morning...

The tang has been out and about the whole time, and is eating regularly. But the breathing is most definitely at an alarming rate.

My tank reads 0/0/~0 (can't detect this level of nitrate with my API kit), and 0.27 phosphate. Salinity is 35 ppt.

We did a water change today out of an abundance of caution, but we're not sure what to do.

I've been planning to do another prazipro treatment on Sunday, but am rather hesitant after the reaction my wrasse had...

Any advice is welcome. I'd really like to do what I can for them while they're still eating well.

 

[fishguy242]

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

 

[DrZoidburg]

Wrasse are sensitive to prazi. Also could be ammonia symptoms, as the prazi will kill worms and snails in tank possibly creating a spike in ammonia levels. It also depletes oxygen levels. It looks like a new set up though little to no worms? Maybe he is just reacting to the meds. Try putting in an air stone if you have one.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi all,

I'm really struggling to diagnose what's wrong with my sailfin tang.

Video here, for reference.

New video by Hunter Allen

photos.app.goo.gl

This tang is breathing very quickly, which is definitely quite concerning to me. On Saturday I brought an info hammer home from my LFS. I had not introduced anything for the two weeks leading up to this, so I suspect something hitchhiked in on the coral (though I don't know what). The next day I noticed my tang breathing very rapidly, and I saw the tang and my melanurus wrasse flashing on the rocks. After I noticed this, I suspected gill flukes and dosed the tank with prazipro.

The treatment stayed in the water until Wednesday, when a water change occured and carbon was added to remove the medication.

My wrasse was really not happy about it, it didn't come out of the sand Wednesday and just showed up again this morning...

The tang has been out and about the whole time, and is eating regularly. But the breathing is most definitely at an alarming rate.

My tank reads 0/0/~0 (can't detect this level of nitrate with my API kit), and 0.27 phosphate. Salinity is 35 ppt.

We did a water change today out of an abundance of caution, but we're not sure what to do.

I've been planning to do another prazipro treatment on Sunday, but am rather hesitant after the reaction my wrasse had...

Any advice is welcome. I'd really like to do what I can for them while they're still eating well.

Is the tang still feeding? If not, this could be velvet, Amyloodinium.

You might have introduced flukes into the tank, but the hammer was too soon to have caused an acute disease by now. It would have been something you added 3 to 6 weeks ago.

I'm wondering if the tank has a gas exchange problem? It looks like there is some algae growth. Without good aeration (not just circulation) you can get into a cycle of low pH, high carbon dioxide overnight and then during the day, things reverse, That can be stressful to the fish. It has to do with the light and dark phase photosynthesis of the algae. Do you have a pH meter? If so, just measure the pH first thing in the morning and then right before the lights go out. If the first reading is really low, or if both readings are low (below 7.8) than that could be the issue.
One way to rule this out is to add a strong airstone to the tank - not a bad thing to do any time a fish is breathing fast.

Jay

 

[hunterallen40]

Hi,

Thanks everyone for getting back to me.

Also could be ammonia symptoms, as the prazi will kill worms and snails in tank possibly creating a spike in ammonia levels

So I tested both ammonia and nitrites, both were zero. Nitrate undetectable, and phosphate at 0.27.

I'm wondering if the tank has a gas exchange problem? It looks like there is some algae growth. Without good aeration (not just circulation) you can get into a cycle of low pH, high carbon dioxide overnight and then during the day, things reverse, That can be stressful to the fish. It has to do with the light and dark phase photosynthesis of the algae

Could be. I turned the skimmer back on and moved the return head up so that it would creat more surface agitation, we'll see how that goes.

As for pH, I consistently read in the 8.0-8.1 range. I'll do a test this morning, then one tonight just to get that data point.

I'll also throw an airstone in. I have a good sized one I'll throw in this morning.

The tank is about three months old, for the record. Last fish was added April 25th (will be six weeks tomorrow), so I suppose it falls within that timeline. That fish is a tassle filefish.

All the fish are eating like crazy still, and are otherwise in good health.

Thank you all so much for the advice.

 

[hunterallen40]

Okay, update for this morning:

Temperature is 80°F and the pH is about 8.0.

The tang is following his buddy, the wrasse, around the tank, not really picking at much, but also not hiding much.

Adding the air stone now, and considering a few options next.

I'm really afraid to do a freshwater dip, since I haven't done one before. I'd be willing to do that if it would help of course, I'm just not sure if it's the right answer.

I'm also considering using my hospital tank and adding copper to kill whatever it is. It's been cycling for a month or so (added ammonia + bacteria and watched it go down to zero several times + changing water with each). It's got a power head and a good sized sponge filter with some dry rock, hopefully he'd be pretty comfortable in there for a bit.

I'm not going to do anything but try and increase the O2 for now, but he doesn't seem to be swimming around the top like I would expect for lack of oxygen.

What's my next play here?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Copper won’t help if it is flukes, I would watch for 24 hours after you changed up the aeration and watch for improvement. If none, you’ll need to chose between copper or Prazipro in the qt or Prazipro in the dt.
Jay

 

[hunterallen40]

Hi,

So the tang is not improving after a day of an air stone, and there's been some flashing this morning..

If none, you’ll need to chose between copper or Prazipro in the qt or Prazipro in the dt.

Could you help me choose between these two? I don't think the prazipro helped all that much last time, and I'm hesitant to do it.

If I were to do a freshwater dip, would that help diagnose what's wrong with the tang / temporarily help the situation?

Thanks again for your input.
--Hunter

 

[hunterallen40]

Video from this morning (turned the bubbles off due to visibility in the middle).

New video by Hunter Allen

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I think given the time that has based with the tang not having died, velvet can be ruled out.
You can try a FW dip, but you need to be able to catch the fish and not beat it up by chasing it all over the tank - easier said then done!
If you do catch the tang, put it in a container of dechlorinated tap water the same temperature as your tank. Keep the lights dim and don’t let it jump out. After 5 minutes, return it to the tank. You want to look at the bottom of the container afterwards for any dead flukes (you may not see them without a microscope). Then, if the tang shows improvement the next day, you can be pretty confident there are flukes.
Jay

 

[hunterallen40]

I think given the time that has based with the tang not having died, velvet can be ruled out.
You can try a FW dip, but you need to be able to catch the fish and not beat it up by chasing it all over the tank - easier said then done!
If you do catch the tang, put it in a container of dechlorinated tap water the same temperature as your tank. Keep the lights dim and don’t let it jump out. After 5 minutes, return it to the tank. You want to look at the bottom of the container afterwards for any dead flukes (you may not see them without a microscope). Then, if the tang shows improvement the next day, you can be pretty confident there are flukes.
Jay

Fish was very difficult to catch. Got it done though. I'll update with how he's doing tomorrow.

 

[hunterallen40]

Here's a video of him this morning.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/joBvJaoBXUxaNpFg8

It's hard to say if there's an improvement, honestly. It clearly didn't enjoy the fresh water dip (definitely not shocking).

The good news is he's alive and still eating, and maybe even slowing down on the breathing (or perhaps I'm just seeing what I want to see). I'll update again later regardless.

If the fish did have flukes, I'm going to have to treat with pazipro again, right? I'm really trying to avoid this due to the way my wrasse reacted last time (I also don't have sand in my quarantine tank, so I can't put the wrasse there... guess I'm buying sand haha).

If the fish still isn't better by this evening, I can probably assume it's not flukes, right? What else would cause a Tang to breathe this desperately, but still eat?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[hunterallen40]

Sorry, here's the link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UEoVcPMMusF7Zdrz6

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry, here's the link: https://photos.app.goo.gl/UEoVcPMMusF7Zdrz6

It doesn’t look much improved. FW dips often take 24 to 36 hours to show improvement though, because when the gill flukes drop off, they leave the fish a bit anemic. There are other reasons for rapid breathing, but since the fish is still eating, the really bad acute issues can be ruled out I think.
Jay

 

[hunterallen40]

FW dips often take 24 to 36 hours to show improvement

Noted. I'll keep an eye on him, and I'll keep updating here as things develop.

There are other reasons for rapid breathing, but since the fish is still eating, the really bad acute issues can be ruled out I think.

That's quite relieving to hear. Through this whole thing he's been eating, which I'm really thankful for.

Thanks again for all your help. This is the first time I've dealt with salt water fish problems, so I really appreciate the advice.

 

[hunterallen40]

Alright, first development.

Noticed something protruding from the tang.

No idea what it is, but he's been violently shaking his head (you can see that in the video from this morning) like he's trying to shake something off. Still eating like like always, still breathing pretty quickly (we're not yet 24 hours from the freshwater dip for the record).

Any ideas what this is?

Thanks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Alright, first development. View attachment 2210312Noticed something protruding from the tang.

No idea what it is, but he's been violently shaking his head (you can see that in the video from this morning) like he's trying to shake something off. Still eating like like always, still breathing pretty quickly (we're not yet 24 hours from the freshwater dip for the record).

Any ideas what this is?

Thanks.

It would be easy to jump to the conclusion that this is a Neobenedenia fluke partially knocked off by the FW dip. I’m shying away from that because Neobenedenia doesn’t cause rapid breathing. Could this be a flap of skin from damage it got while catching it for the dip?
Jay

 

[DrZoidburg]

Honestly hard to see from pictures. Any others have this? Any others getting cloudy eyes? If it is a fluke and prazi or freshwater didn't kill it. I would go with something stronger. Recently I used levamisole in tank treatments with a bunch of new fish no problems at 8 Mg/liter. One was a tomini tang whose dorsal fin was twitching before I medicated and is now not twitching. Something to consider I guess sorry you have to deal with this.

 

[hunterallen40]

Update for the day: seems to be showing some improvement as we approach 36 hours past the freshwater dip.

New video by Hunter Allen

photos.app.goo.gl

He's doing more normal Tang things, but still breathes pretty quickly.

Could this be a flap of skin from damage it got while catching it for the dip?

Oh most definitely. There's also a small tear on the bottom of his fin from chasing him.

Any others getting cloudy eyes?

No, nobody has cloudy eyes. The only fish that's showing symptoms at the moment is my tang. I would guess the wrasse hid for a few days because it didn't like the prazipro. Everyone else is normal, inverts are fine too.

Recently I used levamisole in tank treatments with a bunch of new fish no problems at 8 Mg/liter.

Thanks for the note -- I'll definitely look into this if needed.


Since the tang is looking better today, that means likely flukes, correct? If so, I'll need to treat again, right?

What's the best way to do this with a wrasse in the tank? I also have snails, crabs, anemone, and mixed corals.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I’m not sure why people have issues with wrasse and prazi, I never have, and I’ve dosed it many, many times. Prazipro, with good aeration (not just circulation) dosed to the actual water volume of the tank should be completely wrasse safe.
I don’t see any other option, since the wrasse was flashing also. There are other anti-fluke medications, but I’ve had more issues the few times I’ve used them.
Jay