RO/DI System pressure Dilemma

[Camaronero]

Hello, I have everything (equipment, stand already built, and ro/di system) for my WaterBox 25.... and I can’t even get the water in it....... EMBARRASSING and sadly frustrating.

So I have this; can someone PLEASE walk me through the system instructions¡ I already read the manual 999 times and the membrane flush valve has me going CRAZY: The system is reading 21 psi OR 40 psi depending on the position of the valve (the system is connected to my hose outside in the shade and when connected to my laundry faucet I got the same readings)

B

Which way should this be turned(A or B)? Am I hurting the system if it’s turned in a specific way? Lmk asap because I might have to end up ordering a booster pump.....

Hope everyone who replies/reads this has a great rest of the day¡

 

[ying yang]

A would be open and b closed so when making rodi you would want it closed and when flushing system you want it open to flush system ( if that's your flush valve)

I take it you get 21 psi when in position a and 40 psi when in position b?
The higher the psi the better the membranes work I've read ( within reason,obviously don't want crazy high) to get higher psi may sone may have to have a booster pump.

 

[Airwolf]

Position a is the flush position. I leave mine in that position for about 90 seconds before and after making water.

Position b is for making water.
I was getting very similar pressures to you. I got a booster pump and am now running at 80psi when making water. Big difference in water output.

I did have to adjust the pressure of the pump down though. The way it came out of the box, pegged the gauge.

 

[Kuzurí]

As others have said, B is to make water, A to flush the membrane.

With a psi of 40 in position B, I would recommend a booster pump. This will ensure you actually get the advertised 75 GPD, without wasting too much water.

 

[Camaronero]

A would be open and b closed so when making rodi you would want it closed and when flushing system you want it open to flush system ( if that's your flush valve)

I take it you get 21 psi when in position a and 40 psi when in position b?
The higher the psi the better the membranes work I've read ( within reason,obviously don't want crazy high) to get higher psi may sone may have to have a booster pump.

Thank you so much; I’m running errands right now so I will double check (just to be 1000% sure) the psi readings/position one more time when I get home¡ What should be my course of action if the psi readings end up being inverse (40 psi in position A)¿ If it ends up not being inverse I will be ordering a booster pump asap.

 

[Camaronero]

A would be open and b closed so when making rodi you would want it closed and when flushing system you want it open to flush system ( if that's your flush valve)

I take it you get 21 psi when in position a and 40 psi when in position b?
The higher the psi the better the membranes work I've read ( within reason,obviously don't want crazy high) to get higher psi may sone may have to have a booster pump.

Thank you so much; I’m running errands right now so I will double check (just to be 1000% sure) the psi readings/position one more time when I get home¡ What should be my course of action if the psi readings end up being inverse (40 psi in position A)¿ If it ends up not being inverse I will be ordering a booster pump asap.

 

[Klyle]

Thank you so much; I’m running errands right now so I will double check (just to be 1000% sure) the psi readings/position one more time when I get home¡ What should be my course of action if the psi readings end up being inverse (40 psi in position A)¿ If it ends up not being inverse I will be ordering a booster pump asap.

That shouldn't happen unless it was installed incorrectly. You need a booster pump

 

[ying yang]

Thank you so much; I’m running errands right now so I will double check (just to be 1000% sure) the psi readings/position one more time when I get home¡ What should be my course of action if the psi readings end up being inverse (40 psi in position A)¿ If it ends up not being inverse I will be ordering a booster pump asap.

RO/DI Basic Guide

There are always a lot of questions regarding which RO/DI setup do I need, how many stages, how do I know when to change filters/membranes, I’m getting a weird TDS value, etc. Hopefully this clarifies a few things and helps some of you out one day. My first recommendation would be to find the...

www.reef2reef.com

Here a quick guide to rodi systems that got made other month by @Woodyman ,states 70-80 psi range seems best.
I'm a plumber so could of bought all individual components and made myself but was just easier buying ready made unit with booster pump,
I live on second floor flat and is pumped anyway but at high demand times of day ( where me and neighbours sharing water ) the pressure/ flow rate could drop so just got a unit with booster pump,also incase moved.

 

[Camaronero]

That shouldn't happen unless it was installed incorrectly. You need a booster pump

Forgive me, I’m definitely overthinking it. Will be looking for booster pump options asap.

 

[Opus]

Since you mention an outside hose, I assume you are in a house. Most houses have a main water main around the perimeter that allows you to turn off water to the house. Some have a pressure valve also so you can adjust the water pressure in your home. You may be able to adjust it up and not have to worry about a booster pump.

Also I would just leave the flush valve closed unless you want to just waste more water.

 

[Klyle]

Forgive me, I’m definitely overthinking it. Will be looking for booster pump options asap.

Haha I think most of us do that! If you're not over thinking it you probably aren't thinking hard enough. I'm the king of dumb questions on this site! (I'm in no way saying your questions are dumb)

 

[Klyle]

Since you mention an outside hose, I assume you are in a house. Most houses have a main water main around the perimeter that allows you to turn off water to the house. Some have a pressure valve also so you can adjust the water pressure in your home. You may be able to adjust it up and not have to worry about a booster pump.

Also I would just leave the flush valve closed unless you want to just waste more water.

Are you saying you don't need to flush the membrane before each use?

 

[Opus]

Are you saying you don't need to flush the membrane before each use?

That is what I'm saying. There is no proof that it does anything worthwhile. I've argued with people on here about it and they never can point me to any proof such as a legitimate study that shows it helps on a home system. So to me it is all marketing. Even if it does extend the life of the membrane say 2 months. On average you should get 5 to 7 or more years out of your membrane. Think of all the water you wasted over those years to get an extra 2 months of membrane life. Plus that is longer than most even stay in the hobby.

 

[Klyle]

That is what I'm saying. There is no proof that it does anything worthwhile. I've argued with people on here about it and they never can point me to any proof such as a legitimate study that shows it helps on a home system. So to me it is all marketing. Even if it does extend the life of the membrane say 2 months. On average you should get 5 to 7 or more years out of your membrane. Think of all the water you wasted over those years to get an extra 2 months of membrane life. Plus that is longer than most even stay in the hobby.

Hmm. I was under the impression it extends the life of the di resin. As in it will flush some tds away before it enters the di chambers... because as everyone knows that stuff doesn't last near long enough. Am I not understanding how rodi works? It would be easy enough to test that theory

 

[KStatefan]

Hmm. I was under the impression it extends the life of the di resin. As in it will flush some tds away before it enters the di chambers... because as everyone knows that stuff doesn't last near long enough. Am I not understanding how rodi works? It would be easy enough to test that theory

It does nothing to remove TDS creep. The flush valve is on the opposite side of the membrane to where the TDS creep occurs.

 

[Klyle]

It does nothing to remove TDS creep. The flush valve is on the opposite side of the membrane to where the TDS creep occurs.

So it's only purpose is extending the life of an already very economical filter...interesting. I'm starting to feel like I've been wasting literally a TON of water

 

[Opus]

Hmm. I was under the impression it extends the life of the di resin. As in it will flush some tds away before it enters the di chambers... because as everyone knows that stuff doesn't last near long enough. Am I not understanding how rodi works? It would be easy enough to test that theory

What you are talking about is also sometimes called a flush valve unfortunately. If you are talking about a valve on the good water coming from the RO membrane before it reaches the di filter, then yes, that is to remove tds creep and will extend the life of the di resin. The one on the OP's filter is on the bad water side of the membrane. When it is closed it is acting as the flow restrictor. Basically it is causing back pressure in the ro cartridge which forces water thru the ro membrane. When it is open then water flows freely thru the ro cartridge and in theory removes some of the particles on the outside of the membrane. As I stated, there is really no proof that this actually does much for your membrane long term.

 

[Klyle]

What you are talking about is also sometimes called a flush valve unfortunately. If you are talking about a valve on the good water coming from the RO membrane before it reaches the di filter, then yes, that is to remove tds creep and will extend the life of the di resin. The one on the OP's filter is on the bad water side of the membrane. When it is closed it is acting as the flow restrictor. Basically it is causing back pressure in the ro cartridge which forces water thru the ro membrane. When it is open then water flows freely thru the ro cartridge and in theory removes some of the particles on the outside of the membrane. As I stated, there is really no proof that this actually does much for your membrane long term.

I have no idea...I have a 7 stage value plus filter from brs and it had the "flush valve" already installed. I will have to pull it off the wall to figure out which side it is on. Good to know though! Thanks for the input

 

[Woodyman]

As stated in that thread the necessity in home systems is debated. A lot of it has to do with everyone's source water makeup, and how you pre-filter prior to your membrane.

If you have a lot of sediment and aren't using a .35 or below micron pre-filter I'd say highly recommend to flush. If your pre-filtering down to a .2 micron sediment pre-filter it's unnecessary. Most people don't use less than a 1/0.5 micro sediment pre-filter to my knowledge. I think 1 is probably the most common from threads I've read on here.

The purpose of the flush is to force out any sediment that may be on the surface of the membrane before they are allowed to clog up pores, which would reduce your efficiency. So obviously the less sediment you put into your membrane the less necessary it is to flush it.

I advise people to use it as the 30-60 seconds of flushing isn't going to harm your membrane in any way, not flushing could harm your membranes given the proper conditions. The amount of harm will vary based off how much Sediment you force into the membrane, a little bit isn't going to make a difference, but a lot will.

One example would be not purging your carbon blocks. The amount of carbon fines that will dump on a membrane will no doubt shorten it's life. Performing a flush will purge most of those off the surface of the membrane instead of forcing them deeper into the membrane and causing them to break down which will clog more pores as they lodge deeper into the membrane. Now without performing that flush all those carbon fines would embed into the membrane over time shortening it's life.

So as a precaution without knowing the specifics of someone's water source/slit values, and which rating (nominal/absolute; 1, 5, 10 micron, etc.) filter cartridges they use I recommend it as a better safe than sorry approach.

If it's just about saving a couple cents in water, I don't know about you, but I waste more on stupider stuff than 60 extra seconds of flushing my membrane. My water is cheap @ ~ 2¢ a gallon so the extra 1-3¢ for a 60 second flush doesn't bother me from a financial standpoint.

Now if you pay more for your water, are in an area where water isn't as available or are facing drought conditions, I completely understand wanting to preserve the extra 60 seconds of water, and it very well may be safe for you to skip the flush.

So @Opus isn't wrong, the necessity of a purge is more often than not over rated, but the extra step isn't going to do any harm.

 

[Camaronero]

RO/DI Basic Guide

There are always a lot of questions regarding which RO/DI setup do I need, how many stages, how do I know when to change filters/membranes, I’m getting a weird TDS value, etc. Hopefully this clarifies a few things and helps some of you out one day. My first recommendation would be to find the...

www.reef2reef.com

Here a quick guide to rodi systems that got made other month by @Woodyman ,states 70-80 psi range seems best.
I'm a plumber so could of bought all individual components and made myself but was just easier buying ready made unit with booster pump,
I live on second floor flat and is pumped anyway but at high demand times of day ( where me and neighbours sharing water ) the pressure/ flow rate could drop so just got a unit with booster pump,also incase moved.

I’m grateful to receive all of this great input so thank you¡ I’m curious >while I wait for my booster pump to show up would it be “illegal” to pump my first 30ish gallons with 40 psi?? Let me know¿¡