Pyramid Butterly Issues

[Shufflepig]

I had 2 pyramid butterflies for 10 months. They both were doing great. Great appetites and very active. 6 weeks ago the smaller of the 2 went totally neurologic when feeding the tank. Swam frantically around the tank, ran into rock work etc, and went totally stiff with fins extended. Thought for sure he was dead but 10 minutes later he was swimming around like nothing happened. The same behavior occurred 3 days later when feeding with the same recovery. Then a week later, it happened again when feeding and he died this time. Almost like he seized from the excitement of feeding?!
Now, 6 weeks later my remaining pyramid just did the same thing when feeding today. 10 minutes later, he’s swimming around like nothing ever happened. 8 other fish in the tank are totally normal.
Anybody ever seen this before or have any idea what it could be? I’m afraid my second pyramid will eventually succumb as the first did. Tank is a 6 year old mixed reef.
Thank you for any ideas.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I had 2 pyramid butterflies for 10 months. They both were doing great. Great appetites and very active. 6 weeks ago the smaller of the 2 went totally neurologic when feeding the tank. Swam frantically around the tank, ran into rock work etc, and went totally stiff with fins extended. Thought for sure he was dead but 10 minutes later he was swimming around like nothing happened. The same behavior occurred 3 days later when feeding with the same recovery. Then a week later, it happened again when feeding and he died this time. Almost like he seized from the excitement of feeding?!
Now, 6 weeks later my remaining pyramid just did the same thing when feeding today. 10 minutes later, he’s swimming around like nothing ever happened. 8 other fish in the tank are totally normal.
Anybody ever seen this before or have any idea what it could be? I’m afraid my second pyramid will eventually succumb as the first did. Tank is a 6 year old mixed reef.
Thank you for any ideas.

A video under white lighting will be very helpful. Possible causes are :
Flukes- My suspect (heavy breathing, flashing, darting, twitching
Stray voltage- behavior but my least suspect
Spooked- Fish are spooked and reacting accordingly
Velvet- Some signs are heavy breathing, loss of appetite, gasping at surface or swimming into water flow

Were these quarantined?
What is tank salinity and temperature?

 

[Shufflepig]

Fish were quarantined and treated with copper at therapeutic levels as indicated by Hanna copper tester and general cure which is a combination of metronidazole and praziquantel. Tank salinity is 1.025. Temperature is 79. No other fish are affected and this pyramid looks like nothing ever happened. It’s swimming around the tank picking at the rocks like it normally does. If it happens again I’ll try to get a video but the frantic out of control swimming only lasts 20-30 seconds. Then the fish is very stiff at the bottom of the tank with all fins fully extended. If you didn’t see the gill flaps moving you’d think it was dead. There are no velvet symptoms nor fluke symptoms.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I had 2 pyramid butterflies for 10 months. They both were doing great. Great appetites and very active. 6 weeks ago the smaller of the 2 went totally neurologic when feeding the tank. Swam frantically around the tank, ran into rock work etc, and went totally stiff with fins extended. Thought for sure he was dead but 10 minutes later he was swimming around like nothing happened. The same behavior occurred 3 days later when feeding with the same recovery. Then a week later, it happened again when feeding and he died this time. Almost like he seized from the excitement of feeding?!
Now, 6 weeks later my remaining pyramid just did the same thing when feeding today. 10 minutes later, he’s swimming around like nothing ever happened. 8 other fish in the tank are totally normal.
Anybody ever seen this before or have any idea what it could be? I’m afraid my second pyramid will eventually succumb as the first did. Tank is a 6 year old mixed reef.
Thank you for any ideas.

I've never had this happen with butterflyfish, but we had a big group of bluestripe snappers and they developed fatty liver disease. They looked fine (a bit fat) but when we tried to net some out, they went into spasms and died. I've never seen anything like that.

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've never had this happen with butterflyfish, but we had a big group of bluestripe snappers and they developed fatty liver disease. They looked fine (a bit fat) but when we tried to net some out, they went into spasms and died. I've never seen anything like that.

Jay

Ive seen this with yellow tangs but Only when they were being netted at my LFS

 

[Shufflepig]

I've never had this happen with butterflyfish, but we had a big group of bluestripe snappers and they developed fatty liver disease. They looked fine (a bit fat) but when we tried to net some out, they went into spasms and died. I've never seen anything like that.

Jay

It is really bizarre. I’m looking at the fish right now and he looks perfect and is acting perfect. Both pyramids got very excited at feeding time and start darting around to get as much food as possible and it seems to trigger this seizure like activity. I’m almost afraid to feed the tank again. Fish was stiff and laying upside down on the sand bed for 6-7 minutes, then as fast as it started he began swimming around totally normally. My concern is the first pyramid did that 2 times and died the 3rd time.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I tired researching this for you, but there is too much confusion between the symptoms you saw (where the fish recovered sometimes) and moribund fish, that are just dying from some disease. Then, for the few cases I saw like yours, there was just lots of wild guessing as to the cause. One made possibly sense was previous collection of the fish with cyanide. However, this species is caught in barrier nets, so that isn't likely to be the cause.

Jay

 

[Shufflepig]

I tired researching this for you, but there is too much confusion between the symptoms you saw (where the fish recovered sometimes) and moribund fish, that are just dying from some disease. Then, for the few cases I saw like yours, there was just lots of wild guessing as to the cause. One made possibly sense was previous collection of the fish with cyanide. However, this species is caught in barrier nets, so that isn't likely to be the cause.

Jay

Thank you for looking into this for me. The fact that I’ve had this fish 11 months now would also probably rule out cyanide. I start to wonder if pyramids are susceptible to some sort of parasite that affects the central nervous system. So strange that it is happening to both pyramids and the other fish (tang,wrasse,blenny, clownfish, pipefish) are unaffected.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you for looking into this for me. The fact that I’ve had this fish 11 months now would also probably rule out cyanide. I start to wonder if pyramids are susceptible to some sort of parasite that affects the central nervous system. So strange that it is happening to both pyramids and the other fish (tang,wrasse,blenny, clownfish, pipefish) are unaffected.

There are a whole group of internal parasites that are mostly unknown at the hobbyist level - Microsporidians and nematodes can cause mortality months and years after you acquire the fish, and do not show any external symptoms.

Jay

 

[Shufflepig]

There are a whole group of internal parasites that are mostly unknown at the hobbyist level - Microsporidians and nematodes can cause mortality months and years after you acquire the fish, and do not show any external symptoms.

Jay

I will let you know how things go. If this one dies I will necropsy it to see if I see anything.