Precipitation more likely in super low nutrient tank?

Trenton Henderson

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Hi all! Just thought I would pose the question: do you think that calcium carbonate precipitation is hastened in a super low nutrient system?

I ask this because I have battled precipitation for months now to no avail. I’m stocking my tank with more fish as fast as I can and feeding the heck out of the tank, all to the fine tune of 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate (note that these are from the Hannah checkers).

I have Carib Sea’s Arag-alive sand, and I had definitive sand hardening for a while, but now it’s just in the form of small clumps. I dose BRS 2-part (sodium bicarbonate not soda ash) on a Bubble Magus doser. Without soda ash or a CO2 scrubber, my tank runs very low pH (7.7-7.9 at best), and even at that low of pH I was still getting precipitation, not as much, but it was still there. I left all means of pH increasing media out for about a month to no avail. I’ve stopped dosing several times, and the second I restart, so does my precipitation.

Because my pH was so low, and because I still had precipitation anyway, I reconnected my CO2 scrubber to get a pH of about 8.0. I have a filter sock, a skimmer, and a refugium, and even though I reduced my refugium lighting schedule, tuned back my skimmer, left my filter sock in for 5+ days, and skipped a full week of water change, I still have 0 nitrates and phosphates.

This brings me to my original question: do you think my lack of nutrients could be preventing the clogging of the calcium carbonate surfaces in the sand, leading to continued precipitation?

For reference, my system volume is about 75 gallons, it’s about 5 months old, has noticeable coralline growth, and has 7 fish (four of which are green Chromis who eat a lot). I do believe that a portion of my consumption is coralline growth, and I recently added a small single-head frag of candy cane coral (but this was days ago).
 
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Have you tested magnesium? Magnesium serves to poison calcium carbonate surfaces and halt abiotic precipitation. Having magnesium too low with elevated calcium and alkalinity is often seen in situations with abiotic precipitation.
 
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Trenton Henderson

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Have you tested magnesium? Magnesium serves to poison calcium carbonate surfaces and halt abiotic precipitation. Having magnesium too low with elevated calcium and alkalinity is often seen in situations with abiotic precipitation.
Mg is 1350-1400 ppm. Always has been pretty high.
 
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Trenton Henderson

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Alk and calcium tests? Only one coral in tank?
Alk falls pretty fast, so I can’t get a solid number. I’m trying to keep 8-9 dKH, but can’t keep it there. Calcium is in the 420-435 range; stable at 430 if Alk isn’t dropping too quickly.
 
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Trenton Henderson

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How many coral do you have? If not alot, I'm going to venture a guess your scrubber media is exhausted. It should not drop "fast" imo
I just replaced it. If it were exhausted, that would lead to a drop in pH, slowing alkalinity consumption.
 
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Trenton Henderson

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Why you are dosing if there are no corals?
Growing coralline is the primary reason now, but early on, the alkalinity drop from cycling the tank and precipitation to the sand basically dropped it into the 5-6 dKH range continuously. I wanted to grow coralline, so that wasn’t going to cut it. I think by now, coralline is using a good bit, but not all.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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Phosphate is one of the ions that binds to bare calcium carboante surfaces and reduces the potential for precipitation for more calcium carboante.

So yes, a ULNS will have a greater tendency for precipitation of calcium carbonate than one with higher phosphate.

The two biggest drivers of precipitation are high pH and alkalinity.
 
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Trenton Henderson

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Phosphate is one of the ions that binds to bare calcium carboante surfaces and reduces the potential for precipitation for more calcium carboante.

So yes, a ULNS will have a greater tendency for precipitation of calcium carbonate than one with higher phosphate.

The two biggest drivers of precipitation are high pH and alkalinity.

I’ve noted what you’ve said about the nutrients, so that’s why I posed the question. My alkalinity isn’t high, and my pH was, and still is low (I’ve not seen it higher than 8.1, but it used to not be higher than 7.9). Because these levels are not on the high end, it has led me to believe that it is a nutrients issue.
 

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I’ve noted what you’ve said about the nutrients, so that’s why I posed the question. My alkalinity isn’t high, and my pH was, and still is low (I’ve not seen it higher than 8.1, but it used to not be higher than 7.9). Because these levels are not on the high end, it has led me to believe that it is a nutrients issue.

New dead sand is also very prone to the issue until other things coat it, including magnesium, organics, and bacteria. I don't really know if the Carib Sea sand has that issue or not.
 
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Trenton Henderson

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New dead sand is also very prone to the issue until other things coat it, including magnesium, organics, and bacteria. I don't really know if the Carib Sea sand has that issue or not.
Mine is the live sand, but I’ve heard of some people having issues with it.
 

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I just replaced it. If it were exhausted, that would lead to a drop in pH, slowing alkalinity consumption.
Re-reading this I'm not remembering what made me respond as I did... My apologies... Don't think my coffee kicked in yet :)
 
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I know many of the recommendations do not apply, but these are my generic recommendations for hardening sand:

1. Stop all efforts to boost pH.
2. Stop dosing alk for a bit and let it decline.
3. Reduce pH by switching to a low pH alk mix like sodium bicarbonate, or a calcium organic such as Tropic Marin All for Reef.
4. Ensure magnesium is normal to high.
5. Keep organics and phosphate on the high side.

After a few days of not dosing alk, restart slowly, adding additives to a very high flow area so it mixes in fast.
 

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