Powder Blue Tang Single White Spot on Fin?

[AetherealKnight]

Hi everyone! I recently just bought a Baby Powder Blue Tang (1.5-2in) (Quarantined) in copper and praziquantel pro for two weeks before being transferred to a clean system for observation from my Local Reef Store. I added him today and drip acclimated as usual. I noticed that he had a single spot on his fins, there are no other spots on him as far as I can see. I don't think it's Ich but it does remind me of velvet many years ago. But I don't really know what it is. It could be Lymph but I'm not quite sure. It's not my first powder tang as I kept one many years ago back in 2017 before rehoming it.

Notes:

Tank Age: 7 years Old

New Additions: Clean Chaeto, Banggai Cardinal, Xenia Coral (Quarantined as well)

Other Inhabitants Blue Tang, Foxface, yellow tang, pair of clownfish, flame angel, sleepyhead goby.

Salinity: 1.025
Phosphate: 0.1
Nitrate: 11
Ammonia: Undetectable

Symptoms for any of my fish (including the Powder Blue)

Scratching/Flashing: No

Swimming in Powerhead: No

White Spots on Other Tangs: No

Twitching: No

Heavy Breathing: Not that I can see anything out of the ordinary

Other: I am currently quarantining inverts right now, but I do my best to avoid cross contamination.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi everyone! I recently just bought a Baby Powder Blue Tang (1.5-2in) (Quarantined) in copper and praziquantel pro for two weeks before being transferred to a clean system for observation from my Local Reef Store. I added him today and drip acclimated as usual. I noticed that he had a single spot on his fins, there are no other spots on him as far as I can see. I don't think it's Ich but it does remind me of velvet many years ago. But I don't really know what it is. It could be Lymph but I'm not quite sure. It's not my first powder tang as I kept one many years ago back in 2017 before rehoming it.

Notes:

Tank Age: 7 years Old

New Additions: Clean Chaeto, Banggai Cardinal, Xenia Coral (Quarantined as well)

Other Inhabitants Blue Tang, Foxface, yellow tang, pair of clownfish, flame angel, sleepyhead goby.

Salinity: 1.025
Phosphate: 0.1
Nitrate: 11
Ammonia: Undetectable

Symptoms for any of my fish (including the Powder Blue)

Scratching/Flashing: No

Swimming in Powerhead: No

White Spots on Other Tangs: No

Twitching: No

Heavy Breathing: Not that I can see anything out of the ordinary

Other: I am currently quarantining inverts right now, but I do my best to avoid cross contamination.

I do not see this as parasitical but rather a grain of sand from sandbed. lympho which I am not sold on or a fin ray spot. Sand is my suspect. Keep an eye on it for any additional, enlargement as examples.

 

[AetherealKnight]

I do not see this as parasitical but rather a grain of sand from sandbed. lympho which I am not sold on or a fin ray spot. Sand is my suspect. Keep an eye on it for any additional, enlargement as examples.

If it was sand, surely it would have fallen off by now, no?

 

[vetteguy53081]

If it was sand, surely it would have fallen off by now, no?

Sometimes not as the fish have a slime coat. Other as mentioned would be Lympho but unusual for one single dot. Fin ray dot next possible

 

[AetherealKnight]

Sometimes not as the fish have a slime coat. Other as mentioned would be Lympho but unusual for one single dot. Fin ray dot next possible

Is Fin Ray Dot basically an injured fin?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is Fin Ray Dot basically an injured fin?

Its the structure of the fin made of hard and soft cartilage. Often a slight imperfection will appear as ich, lukes and bacterial in which it is not

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi everyone! I recently just bought a Baby Powder Blue Tang (1.5-2in) (Quarantined) in copper and praziquantel pro for two weeks before being transferred to a clean system for observation from my Local Reef Store. I added him today and drip acclimated as usual. I noticed that he had a single spot on his fins, there are no other spots on him as far as I can see. I don't think it's Ich but it does remind me of velvet many years ago. But I don't really know what it is. It could be Lymph but I'm not quite sure. It's not my first powder tang as I kept one many years ago back in 2017 before rehoming it.

Notes:

Tank Age: 7 years Old

New Additions: Clean Chaeto, Banggai Cardinal, Xenia Coral (Quarantined as well)

Other Inhabitants Blue Tang, Foxface, yellow tang, pair of clownfish, flame angel, sleepyhead goby.

Salinity: 1.025
Phosphate: 0.1
Nitrate: 11
Ammonia: Undetectable

Symptoms for any of my fish (including the Powder Blue)

Scratching/Flashing: No

Swimming in Powerhead: No

White Spots on Other Tangs: No

Twitching: No

Heavy Breathing: Not that I can see anything out of the ordinary

Other: I am currently quarantining inverts right now, but I do my best to avoid cross contamination.

What you need to do is observe this spot for a few days…if it stays in place, it isn’t ich and is likely a broken fin ray. If it goes away, it’s likely a dust spot. If it goes away but returns in different locations and in different numbers, that is more likely ich.

 

[AetherealKnight]

What you need to do is observe this spot for a few days…if it stays in place, it isn’t ich and is likely a broken fin ray. If it goes away, it’s likely a dust spot. If it goes away but returns in different locations and in different numbers, that is more likely ich.

Would there typically be symptoms like aggressive flashing, if my PBT had ich? At least in my experience, any new tang I added into a observation/Qt tank would flash/scratch within hours because of ich due to stress (particularly for blue hippo tangs).

 

[vetteguy53081]

Would there typically be symptoms like aggressive flashing, if my PBT had ich? At least in my experience, any new tang I added into a observation/Qt tank would flash/scratch within hours because of ich due to stress (particularly for blue hippo tangs).

PBT will generally breakout with a series of bumps
Flash and scratch is associated with flukes over ich

 

[AetherealKnight]

PBT will generally breakout with a series of bumps
Flash and scratch is associated with flukes over ich

So assuming he hasn’t shown any bumps over the next few days (like till Sunday), it most likely means he doesn’t have ich, right? At least in theory, the stress from being in put into a new environment should lead him to show ich after 24+ hours.

I guess I’ll have to wait for a few days to see. It’s going to be dreadful for me if it is ich. I managed to keep my DT clear for 7 years. But oh well..

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Would there typically be symptoms like aggressive flashing, if my PBT had ich? At least in my experience, any new tang I added into an observation/Qt tank would flash/scratch within hours because of ich due to stress (particularly for blue hippo tangs).

Flashing/scratching is more of a sign of flukes, not so much ich. Sometimes, when ich first gets started, the fish may scratch, but that usually stops when the infection gets ramped up.

 

[vetteguy53081]

So assuming he hasn’t shown any bumps over the next few days (like till Sunday), it most likely means he doesn’t have ich, right? At least in theory, the stress from being in put into a new environment should lead him to show ich after 24+ hours.

I guess I’ll have to wait for a few days to see. It’s going to be dreadful for me if it is ich. I managed to keep my DT clear for 7 years. But oh well..

have you done a quarantine with this fish? If not, go at least 14 days of assurance that there is no disease which can be triggered by skin irritations and water quality

 

[AetherealKnight]

have you done a quarantine with this fish? If not, go at least 14 days of assurance that there is no disease which can be triggered by skin irritations and water quality

Indeed, the fish was quarantined for 14 days in cupramine and treated with prazi pro for flukes and then moved into observation before it made into my display. So far he has no bumps right now. But I will update in a few days if something looks abnormal.

 

[AetherealKnight]

Update: The dot is still present on the fin.

Sometime today it looked like he had another spot on his forehead but it seemed liked it was sand because it fell of in a matter of a minute after it appeared, when I checked back on him.

Although on closer inspection the dot on his fin last night. The dot does appear somewhat flat when I was shining a flash light on him.

Unfortunately he is getting bullied by my blue hippo tang and yellow tang. Who has not taken to kindly to the new tang who have been together for 7 years. So I’ll have to put an egg crate up.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update: The dot is still present on the fin.

Sometime today it looked like he had another spot on his forehead but it seemed liked it was sand because it fell of in a matter of a minute after it appeared, when I checked back on him.

Although on closer inspection the dot on his fin last night. The dot does appear somewhat flat when I was shining a flash light on him.

Unfortunately he is getting bullied by my blue hippo tang and yellow tang. Who has not taken to kindly to the new tang who have been together for 7 years. So I’ll have to put an egg crate up.

PBT are REALLY prone to ich, thus my concern about watching the spots "come and go". 14 days of Cupramine is a bit short to really control ich - 21 days is safer. The reason is that the resting stage of ich (the tomont) is not killed by copper. That means there could have been some tomonts that made it through the treatment, and released infective cells. However, I think you moved the fish out of the treatment tank at the end of the treatment? If so, there is a good chance that any remaining tomonts were left in the treatment tank, and thus would not be infective to the fish after it was moved out.

If you can rule out ich, then it is more probable that this is some damage from minor aggression......

 

[AetherealKnight]

PBT are REALLY prone to ich, thus my concern about watching the spots "come and go". 14 days of Cupramine is a bit short to really control ich - 21 days is safer. The reason is that the resting stage of ich (the tomont) is not killed by copper. That means there could have been some tomonts that made it through the treatment, and released infective cells. However, I think you moved the fish out of the treatment tank at the end of the treatment? If so, there is a good chance that any remaining tomonts were left in the treatment tank, and thus would not be infective to the fish after it was moved out.

If you can rule out ich, then it is more probable that this is some damage from minor aggression......

Indeed he was moved from the treatment tank, to an observation tank and then to my display tank. It’s quite similar to HumbleFish’s 14 day copper treatment plan. I used to do the 30 day cupramine, but it was pretty harsh on my fish.

And yes I was quite concerned when I saw another spot on his forehead later today ( was not there in the morning) but it was gone after a a minute when I came back. I do not think ich spots come and go on fish that fast? They usually stay there for substantially longer before falling onto the sand, no? I cannot entirely rule out ich unfortunately and it’s my primary concern for my display tank after introducing my PBT.

If it makes it any difference, the dot i have seen on him are substantially smaller than ich tomonts I have seen in the past when dealing with smaller tangs. For reference, if ich was a soccer ball , this looks like a tennis ball? He’s only 1-2 inches but I have no idea if ich tomonts scale proportionally to their hosts?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Indeed he was moved from the treatment tank, to an observation tank and then to my display tank. It’s quite similar to HumbleFish’s 14 day copper treatment plan. I used to do the 30 day cupramine, but it was pretty harsh on my fish.

And yes I was quite concerned when I saw another spot on his forehead later today ( was not there in the morning) but it was gone after a a minute when I came back. I do not think ich spots come and go on fish that fast? They usually stay there for substantially longer before falling onto the sand, no? I cannot entirely rule out ich unfortunately and it’s my primary concern for my display tank after introducing my PBT.

If it makes it any difference, the dot i have seen on him are substantially smaller than ich tomonts I have seen in the past when dealing with smaller tangs. For reference, if ich was a soccer ball , this looks like a tennis ball? He’s only 1-2 inches but I have no idea if ich tomonts scale proportionally to their hosts?

Ich trophonts tend to scale in size based on the length of time they have been attached to the fish. However, ich can be tricky, in that as the infection progresses, the telltale symptoms look different. I call these long term infections, "stale ich", but that is perhaps not the best description.

Coppersafe or copper power, for 30 days is much safer than ionic copper, even for 21 days.

 

[AetherealKnight]

Ich trophonts tend to scale in size based on the length of time they have been attached to the fish. However, ich can be tricky, in that as the infection progresses, the telltale symptoms look different. I call these long term infections, "stale ich", but that is perhaps not the best description.

Coppersafe or copper power, for 30 days is much safer than ionic copper, even for 21 days.

What would you say the chances of it are sand rather than ich? Because I have seen debris on him since he swims close to the sand but I guess the only way to know is to monitor him for a week or two.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

What would you say the chances of it are sand rather than ich? Because I have seen debris on him since he swims close to the sand but I guess the only way to know is to monitor him for a week or two.

Sorry - I can't really hazard a guess, just monitor the issue for now I think.

Jay

 

[AetherealKnight]

Two Week Update: It's been two weeks now, I can't see the white spot on his fin anymore, but he doesn't have anything that looks unusual right now. Though he does look a bit skinny, so I've been feeding more to fatten him up (constantly grazing on nori and eating flakes). But I think the quarantine was a success maybe? Here's a pic of him, sorry that it's not really good, he's learned to hide from my camera.