Powder Blue Tang Aggresion Advice/Theories?

Nutramar

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I stocked my display tank about 6 months ago including a powder blue tang. Its a fish I have always wanted and a fresh tank seemed the perfect opportunity to experiment with a potentially aggressive fish. The tank is only 100 gallons and I also have a desjardini tang and a blue hippo tang. To my delight, there has been no aggression between the three in the last half a year.

A friend of mine saw the powder blue in my tank and fell in love with the fish. He is asking me for advice about keeping one with his other fish because he knows how aggressive they can be. I want to tell him what I think helped me keep a peaceful tank so far but I want to confirm that it is good advice first.

I picked 3 tangs that were a different genus. I quarantined them together. Quarantine was heavily medicated so they were too stressed to harass each other but still shared the same space and became familiar. The tangs are all different sizes. 5 inch desjardini, 3.5 inch powder Blue, 2 inch Blue Hippo. I made the desjardini the largest because I have heard they are less likely to be aggressive compared to other tangs. Then the blue hippo and desjardini were added to the tank from quarantine a day before the powder blue. Even though my tank is small I bought three tangs instead of two because I believe it creates an opportunity to spread aggression between multiple fish instead of an intense one-one-one vendetta. Maybe this social dynamic and method of introduction helped?

I also designed the tank to be small while still providing activity and enrichment for the tangs. There is A LOT of flow in the tank. And also a lot of rockwork. The rockwork is full of holes and channels and outcroppings that break up lines of sight but don't obstruct a fish's ability to swim. The idea is that I have somewhat subsidized what I lack in raw tank space with a more elaborate and diverse landscape that has many different territories and landmarks so that the fish don't get bored or feel as trapped. My theory goes that a fish will be stressed if it doesn't have the room to exercise and/or if it feels trapped because it swims past the same landmarks every 3 seconds. I know there is no true substitute for a larger tank, but I think I have met the exercise requirements by having intense/diverse flow and no obstructions that force fish to slow down. And by having a large amount of rock with varied structures and landmarks I think I have made them feel less confined. I think of my tank layout like a racetrack with its curves, hills, and passages vs other tanks with open space that are like a drag strip. Anyway, I think this helps tang aggression because my tangs aren't restless from lack of exercise but also don't get the "zooms" that I often see in wide-open tanks, leading to near-collisions between fish, and often triggering moments of aggression. The broken lines of sight also help to help the tangs feel relief from the presence of the other tangs, give them places to hide/cool off, establish territory with clear boundaries, and avoid the scenario where the dominant fish spots a target from across the tank and charges. (see disclaimer at bottom)

Finally, rather than focussing on the powder blue, I have made the dominant desjardini tang my priority to regulate. The desjardini so easily dominates the tank because of its size, and intimidating tall fins, that my main concern is keeping her pacified (Her name is Padme because of the ridiculous face paint Natalie Portman wore in Star Wars). I feed heavily, which grows algae on the rocks (not enough that it really shows but most of the rockwork has a slight fuzziness to it). And Padme gets extra special treatment because she always steals at least one chunk of food off the tongs every time I feed my white ribbon eel. She's spoiled and happy and couldn't care less about bothering the other fish because there's no threat to her resources. But shes still the dominant fish in the tank. occasionally the powder blue will be swimming alongside the blue hippo and decide to chase it in circles for a few seconds. Almost always the powder blue will seemingly lose interest and suddenly notice a rock it wants to pick at, but when it doesn't, Padme is sure to arrive and break things up. She's an amazing peacekeeper. When she notices, she will calmy swim over, glide between the other two tangs, and hover there until they depart. My theory is that she needs to assert herself as the single aggressor in the tank. If another fish is allowed to think it can be a bully then it might get a fat head and believe it doesn't have to respect her authority. So to prevent that from happening Padme shuts down any fishes' opportunity to behave aggressively. Even though Padme herself has never even hurt a fly.

In all, so far everything is working out great between my fish. I monitor them closely because this is my first time having more than one tang in a tank. But everything is going great. The only time they squabble is when the lights go out and they briefly argue about who gets which sleeping spot that evening (it's like musical chairs every night hahah). I might have no idea what I'm doing and I just got lucky with my fishes' personalities. Or maybe I did something right just by chance. Either way I do want to see my friend have the same success I have been having (fingers crossed it stays that way) and these ideas are my best advice for what might help keep a peaceful tank even with a notoriously aggressive fish.

Please tear apart my theories by teaching me something I dont know instead of just saying Im just wrong. I think some of my ideas are pretty "original" so take them with a grain of salt. But please do consider if my reasoning has any merits. It seems too coincidental that things worked out for me that I could be wrong about all of my strategy. I was very deliberate and I did get the results I was looking for after all. Anyways, based on the comments I will pass on what I learn or confirm to my friend. Thanks in advance for any feedback (and also for reading this far).

**Disclaimer** Some may not agree about the tangs I have, at the sizes they are, being housed in a tank as small as mine. Their behavior and health have been exemplary so far and I do not believe they are being mistreated. That being said, I do not plan on keeping these tangs in my tank permanently. I have made arrangements for the desjardini to go to another friend and the powder blue to be taken in by my LFS when I decide they have grown too large. The Hippo will, of course, outgrow the tank as well. But I have not finalized plans for it yet and I may upgrade before I feel it needs more space.
 
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tehmadreefer

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Tank is too small. Tang aggression is territorial as they graze in the wild, the bigger they get the worse they get as space is taken. Again your tank is just way too small no matter how much flow you provide or openness you try to make with rock. Glass box is a glass box.

Your "theory" is just whatever... theres limited aggression now only due to their smaller size. Again tank is too small.
 
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Tank is too small. Tang aggression is territorial as they graze in the wild, the bigger they get the worse they get as space is taken. Again your tank is just way too small no matter how much flow you provide or openness you try to make with rock. Glass box is a glass box.

Your "theory" is just whatever... theres limited aggression now only due to their smaller size. Again tank is too small.

I know you're not wrong. I bought fish that I won't be able to keep for very long. I have a conveyer belt of fish moving up from tank to tank as they grow and the 100 is the last stop before finding a home with someone else. The currently 2" blue hippo was 3/4 inch when I brought it home and originally lived in a bio cube until it was about 1.25 inches long. I know they're going to be hard to let go but its a pleasure to have them while they're here.

But besides that, were any of the strategies for introducing, aquascaping, and maintaining the tank dynamic sound? Say, for someone with a larger tank?
 
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I know you're not wrong. I bought fish that I won't be able to keep for very long. I have a conveyer belt of fish moving up from tank to tank as they grow and the 100 is the last stop before finding a home with someone else. The currently 2" blue hippo was 3/4 inch when I brought it home and originally lived in a bio cube until it was about 1.25 inches long. I know they're going to be hard to let go but its a pleasure to have them while they're here.

But besides that, were any of the strategies for introducing, aquascaping, and maintaining the tank dynamic sound? Say, for someone with a larger tank?
I have a 120 with 3 Tangs (Yellow, Tomini, Sailfin) and they were all introduced at different times. One way I've found success with introductions is turning my lights to blue to simulate night time, and when I introduced a new Tang I would turn it to red (in theory fish don't have very good sight in red light) to prevent anyone from coming out and harassing the new tennant.
My rockwork is made with lots of tunnels, both thanks to myself and my sand Sifting goby. I also have all the rock as kind of a wall in the center of my tank, running length wise. I believe providing those stretches will allow them to swim for awhile and reduce aggression.
Another thing I do is feed the tank before I introduce anyone new, so they are not as aggressive.
If you want a pic of my rockwork, I will post one for you!

*I haven't had any Tang aggression that lasts more than 18-24 hours.
 

tehmadreefer

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Yep, introduce with lights off and feed. Food gets us everytime! Lol

I have a 180 with a powder blue, foxface, cbb, and Niger trigger, along with some small fish that don't get larger.

The pbt is by far the aggressor and it and the foxface go at it all day long and they have been in the same tank for quite some time but they are also going for the same tyle of food. Algae. Interestingly enough the foxface is always hovering around the pbt, so its also asking for it most times too. Fish need their personal space too

The pbt will mercilessly harass new additions at first until they are put in their place but if their food source is at risk, its game in , as such with my foxface.
 
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My theory..... is that PBT’s are aggressive

The Powder Blue in my tank is actually the second one I bought. The first one died in quarantine even though it wasnt sick and was eating well. The powder blue must have seen its reflection because when I was feeding it the Powder Blue paused and charged the far end of the tank. It hit the glass so hard it stunned itself and died within a minute. The most baffling thing I have experienced so far in this hobby...
 

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I have 3 tangs in a 200 gallon, a white bristletooth, a yellow and a PBT. After trial and error over many years here is how I handle multiple tangs. I make sure they are of a different genus and color and all the same size, in this case about 4”. i add them at the same time. I make sure that there is enough rock work and crevices for each to hide out; but not so much that swimming lanes are obstructed. When I introduce them I give them some time to acclimate to their new surroundings and then I feed them. They rarely eat the first time, but usually will eat the second time—this case was no exception. Once they are eating, I feed them multiple times per day (as many as 5) for a few days—I believe this reduces aggression in the early days. They will normally display dominant behavior during this time, but no aggression to the point of injury. Over time, they will establish a bit of a pecking order, but I’ve observed that when they are of a different genus and color, roughly the same size, and are added at the same time and each have room to swim and places to hide, that no one tang will dominate any other one. I make sure to keep them plump too.

In my present case, the PBT as typical will challenge the yellow and the bristletooth every once in a while, but neither will back down. The yellow will raise its dorsal fin and the bristletooth will either ignore the PBT or swim around it. And the PBT will move on. They swim together happily the majority of the time. In terms of displaying dominant behavior towards each other, I’d say the PBT, the yellow and the britstletooth in that order. Interesting enough, the bristletooth will show more dominance towards other fish by occasionally chasing them around—even a similarly sized trigger—much more than the other two. But even that is rarely observed.

That said, this is a 200 gallon with a lot of space to swim. I would be hesitant to try this in a tank half the size, and thus would be unlikely to ever keep 3 tangs like this in a 100 gallon. As much as I love tangs, 3 is pretty much the max I’d keep in my 200.
 

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I think you have really thought this through and have come up with a great plan for now and in the future. Every fish is different so to me there are no hard fast rules, but guidelines that we should adhere to. I had to rehome a powder blue because he was violent to the point he nearly killed my fox face. I prefer and strive for a peaceful tank because I hate to see the fish stressed and not able to enjoy themselves. You don’t appear to have that now but may notice it in the future. My powder was by far the meanest fish I’ve owned including a Sohal. There is no way for us to replicate what fish experience in the ocean. If someone tells you that 50 more gallons means a fish can no swim as they do in the ocean they are sadly mistaken. You can obviously go too small, but don’t let people discourage you from keeping the fish you love. You already have a plan in place if things go wrong which is more than most people do. You may also get lucky and because of the hierarchy in place you may be able to have your fish for years with no problems. I currently have 5 tangs in my tank and have no aggression. They were added at different times with the exception of my last 2. My sailfin and hippo have been in my tank for 8 to 10 years before my latest additions. The sailfin likes to be the boss but he’s not aggressive. IMO 180 gallons is not the ocean nor is 100 gallons. Part of what is fun about this hobby is doing things that people say can’t be done or is hard. I love a challenge, but as I believe you are, just keep the health and well-being of the pets first. I wish you all the success and a larger tank in the future as I know how hard it is to lose a fish. I swear it was like losing my dog I’ve had for years even though we are separated by glass. If it helps my hippo was 4” when I got Dora(long story) and she is only 6” now after having her about 8 years. I believe she’s probably full grown. My sailfin I’ve had for about 10 years and I’d say he is about 4.5” round when puffed up. And yes I overfeed my fish and use LRS and nori regularly. May grow slower than you think.
 
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Current tangs (don’t call the tang police) are a hippo, sailfin, blonde naso, white tail, and mimic lemon peal. I feed good and tried to overcompensate on my nutrient export.
 
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Current tangs (don’t call the tang police) are a hippo, sailfin, blonde naso, white tail, and mimic lemon peal. I feed good and tried to overcompensate on my nutrient export.

Thanks for the support!
My tank has only a canister filter. But 3 150 gal rated HOB skimmers ahahah.
 

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Sounds like your tangs are all still juveniles, minus the desjardini, most Acanthurus/paraacanthurus tangs dont show much aggression until they hit sexual maturity. I dont think your PBT is there yet, because when Acanthurus tangs hit maturity they go nuts! Good on you for thinking things out but, I think as soon as that flip switches in some of those tangs, you are going to have a bad time.

Just my .02
 
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Whatever works for you is fine. I’ve got an aqua remora hob skimmer I found in my shed today that I had on my first tank. Ran that and hob carbon bio-wheel filters for over a year before I upgraded. It scares me to think about some of the things I’ve done in the past and would give me a heart attack today. Live, learn, and grow. And if you ask I don’t know what you’re talking about.
 

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I have a 150g (60x24x24) with several tangs that were introduced at different times. The biggest is a ~7" Desjardins tang that I have had for ~3 years. Next is a somewhat belligerent yellow tang about 4" that went in around the same time as the Desjardins. The yellow and Desjardins fought off and on for years (and still spar frequently) with no obvious damage to either. About 4 months ago, I added a 3" Achilles tang who fought with the yellow nearly constantly, but this settled down after a week or so. The Achilles is now about 4" long and other fish do not mess with (and can't catch) it. 6 weeks ago I added a 2.5" powder blue tang. The Achilles beat this one up quite a bit for a week but since then they have been getting along well and the PBT has healed and is growing rapidly (probably more than 3" already). I'd say the most aggression is still between the Desjardins and the yellow but the yellow seems to fight even more with a Kleins' butterfly about the same size. Mostly just chasing and tail fencing though.

I keep the tank well fed with mysis, pellets and other frozen foods and 2 sheets of nori a day and there are lots of caves and hiding places in the live rock. So far, so good. I will remove the yellow and the Kleins to a LFS because the former is too feisty and the latter it is a LPS eater.
 
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I hereby revoke your excellence award and expert contributor badge due to you keeping a tang in a tank smaller than the ocean. On behalf of fish huggers everywhere I am saddened by this and inform you that Sarah Mclachin will be dispatched to your house to sing “in the arms of an angel”. If you own an aspca shirt it will be confiscated and you will be banned for life. I’m sorry it has come to this but I feel as though I have no choice and would not be able to sleep tonight with this injustice occurring. I must also inform you that I’m only joking and wish you well.
 
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I appreciate all the advice everyone! I will make sure to pass it on. Before I do though, is there any part of my original advice that you think is wrong or I should leave out? My friend is upgrading to a 120 really soon. He doesn have any tangs at the moment and wants to take the fresh opportunity to add some to his community. He is planning to make one of them a Powder Blue and has asked me for any tips he hasn't already found online.
 

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I appreciate all the advice everyone! I will make sure to pass it on. Before I do though, is there any part of my original advice that you think is wrong or I should leave out? My friend is upgrading to a 120 really soon. He doesn have any tangs at the moment and wants to take the fresh opportunity to add some to his community. He is planning to make one of them a Powder Blue and has asked me for any tips he hasn't already found online.

In a standard 120, if he is adding a PB that better be the only tang in the acanthurus genus in the tank, he may be able to get a zebrasoma or ctenochaetus and be fine but two acanthurus tangs in a 4ftx2ft box will be trouble without a doubt.
 
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