Please help diagnosis why fish are dying for 2 years

[Bubblebass]

Putting myself out there.

Been in the hobby 8 years. Went from a 120 to a 40 and a 45. 2 years ago. Fish always did great in the 120. The 45 is a harem tank that is doing great. I have been trying to keep the 40 to mostly LPS. Tank is growing coral well. Shrooms, favia, frogspawn, fungia plates all thriving and growing. Even a couple Monti's doing well. Snails are reproducing. I am a crab hater, so none of those. Every fish I have ever put in there has died. Every single one. I consider myself a reefing semi-nerd, so this tank was all about easy fish with the coral. Blennys, dartfish, basslets all die within a few days. I cannot see any signs of brook, velvet, ich or flukes. I have seen some patches on discoloration, but only after they die and was thinking it was just color loss when fish die. I had settled into having a tank with no fish and just coral. Then aiptasia happened. Got a couple peppermints. Died in a day. Small filefish that had been at another hobbyists home for a few months. Died in 3 days. No fish for almost 7 months and using F aiptasia and X. They control it, but it's winning. Got another Filefish. Died in 2 days. Filefish are so hard to tell if they are healthy......aren't that active anyways and breathing is tough to tell. I think it looked like it was struggling within 12 hours in the tank.

Attached are the post mortem pics of the filefish. Nassarius snails were all over him this morning when I saw he had died. But the reddish patch sure looks bacterial to me. I'm no fish disease expert, but it seems like an infection would not go from one fish to the next.

Thank you for any input.

Paramaters:

Alk: 7.8
Ca: 440
Mag: 1350
NO2: 0
NO3: 5
PO4: .08
NH3: 0

 

[Julbra]

So sorry this keeps happening.

Thinking out loud here…

If it were toxins corals and snails would suffer as well.
If it were diseases the prolonged fishless periods should have cleared them.

Assuming the heater is not stopping every night when you’re not looking.

Maybe low oxygen?
Do you run a skimmer on this tank? Did you measure dissolved oxygen levels?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Putting myself out there.

Been in the hobby 8 years. Went from a 120 to a 40 and a 45. 2 years ago. Fish always did great in the 120. The 45 is a harem tank that is doing great. I have been trying to keep the 40 to mostly LPS. Tank is growing coral well. Shrooms, favia, frogspawn, fungia plates all thriving and growing. Even a couple Monti's doing well. Snails are reproducing. I am a crab hater, so none of those. Every fish I have ever put in there has died. Every single one. I consider myself a reefing semi-nerd, so this tank was all about easy fish with the coral. Blennys, dartfish, basslets all die within a few days. I cannot see any signs of brook, velvet, ich or flukes. I have seen some patches on discoloration, but only after they die and was thinking it was just color loss when fish die. I had settled into having a tank with no fish and just coral. Then aiptasia happened. Got a couple peppermints. Died in a day. Small filefish that had been at another hobbyists home for a few months. Died in 3 days. No fish for almost 7 months and using F aiptasia and X. They control it, but it's winning. Got another Filefish. Died in 2 days. Filefish are so hard to tell if they are healthy......aren't that active anyways and breathing is tough to tell. I think it looked like it was struggling within 12 hours in the tank.

Attached are the post mortem pics of the filefish. Nassarius snails were all over him this morning when I saw he had died. But the reddish patch sure looks bacterial to me. I'm no fish disease expert, but it seems like an infection would not go from one fish to the next.

Thank you for any input.

Paramaters:

Alk: 7.8
Ca: 440
Mag: 1350
NO2: 0
NO3: 5
PO4: .08
NH3: 0

File shows either injury or bacterial infection.
What test kits are you using as false results will be a problem. Additionally, if you have coral/live rock, you may have a worm such as eunice/bobbit hunting them at night without your knowledge.
I urge you to recheck your water quality by taking a good size water sample to a trusted LFS that does not use Api kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours.

 

[Bubblebass]

So sorry this keeps happening.

Thinking out loud here…

If it were toxins corals and snails would suffer as well.
If it were diseases the prolonged fishless periods should have cleared them.

Assuming the heater is not stopping every night when you’re not looking.

Maybe low oxygen?
Do you run a skimmer on this tank? Did you measure dissolved oxygen levels?

I run an Apex, so heat is steady. No skimmer, but lots of water movement. Return pump, Nero 3 on one side and Tunze 660 on the other.

How can I measure dissolved O2?

 

[Bubblebass]

File shows either injury or bacterial infection.
What test kits are you using as false results will be a problem. Additionally, if you have coral/live rock, you may have a worm such as eunice/bobbit hunting them at night without your knowledge.
I urge you to recheck your water quality by taking a good size water sample to a trusted LFS that does not use Api kits and see what readings they come up with and to compare with yours.

No API. Salifert, Nyos, Hanna and a quarterly ICP.

 

[jkobel]

stray voltage?

What about the source of the fish? Do you trust your LFS to sell healthy animals?

 

[Julbra]

I run an Apex, so heat is steady. No skimmer, but lots of water movement. Return pump, Nero 3 on one side and Tunze 660 on the other.

How can I measure dissolved O2?

Not saying that's your issue here, might be a long shot but worth exploring short of other ideas.

Unfortunately DO meters are very expensive so you would need to borrow one from a club.

Things to bear in mind when thinking about DO:

• warmer water has dramatically reduced capacity to hold DO (1 degree makes a huge difference). What temp do you run this tank?
• most gas exchange only happens at the surface. Flow alone doesn't help as much as you might think (unless directed at the surface). That's why bubbles and skimmers are so great since they increase the surface area of your tank when the bubbles break at the surface.
• what are the dimensions of the tank? Long and shallow better good for exchange, cubes not so great, tall cylinder jelly fish tanks are the worst

 

[sfin52]

If it was the water the coral and inverts would be in trouble. I doubt oxygen small fish good service movement.
A hunter is a possibility a worm of some sort. Or an unknown crab

 

[Bubblebass]

stray voltage?

What about the source of the fish? Do you trust your LFS to sell healthy animals?

I do. I also only buy fish that he's had for over a month. So for them to die in such a short period.....it's gotta be me.

 

[sfin52]

I do. I also only buy fish that he's had for over a month. So for them to die in such a short period.....it's gotta be me.

Not necessarily how does he keep the water. If it's low salinity that may be enough to keep a problem low till you get it in your tank.

 

[Bubblebass]

If it was the water the coral and inverts would be in trouble. I doubt oxygen small fish good service movement.
A hunter is a possibility a worm of some sort. Or an unknown crab

I will try to hunt over the next few nights. This seems quite unlikely to me, though. The fish seem to slowly die over the 2 days. It's not like they are happy and then just disappear.

 

[Bubblebass]

Not necessarily how does he keep the water. If it's low salinity that may be enough to keep a problem low till you get it in your tank.

Good thought. I checked his levels a year ago when I started using him. But I will again in case he's gone cheap.

 

[Bubblebass]

If it was the water the coral and inverts would be in trouble.

My thoughts as well. This is why disease or something specific to fish seems more likely.

 

[Bubblebass]

Does the fish show anything that would signal anything to you guys?

 

[Bubblebass]

@Jay Hemdal could you take a look at the fish pics and see if anything sticks out to you?

 

[I never finish anythi]

Why are it's fins and tail so beat up . Kind of looks like it's had a hard time . I'm no expert tho

 

[I never finish anythi]

What is the PH of the water ?

 

[zdrc]

Could you have a parasite that specifically targets shrimp and fish? Something like Cirolanid isopods?

I agree that corals are a good barometer for water health. I don't think the corals would be doing well if the dissolved oxygen was so low it was killing fish, but I'm not 100% sure.

This makes me think it's an unseen predator or parasite.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

@Jay Hemdal could you take a look at the fish pics and see if anything sticks out to you?

My thought is that this isn’t a water quality issue - corals and invertebrates will always have trouble with water quality issues before fish do - in EVERY case except one: in rare cases, you can have transient low dissolved oxygen at night that harms the fish, but corals can survive.
I would say that these fish losses are not related to a dingle issue, but rather different issues with different fish. The two primary issues are poor quality fish from your LFS and/or lack of quarantine letting fish diseases get through. A third issue we see a lot is LFS that keep their fish at low salinity. Then, customers try to acclimate these fish to full salinity. This actually needs to be done over a few days - if your trying to raise them from day 1.018 to 1.025 specific gravity.
Buying pre quarantined fish might give you a good starting point.
Jay

 

[Bubblebass]

My thought is that this isn’t a water quality issue - corals and invertebrates will always have trouble with water quality issues before fish do - in EVERY case except one: in rare cases, you can have transient low dissolved oxygen at night that harms the fish, but corals can survive.
I would say that these fish losses are not related to a dingle issue, but rather different issues with different fish. The two primary issues are poor quality fish from your LFS and/or lack of quarantine letting fish diseases get through. A third issue we see a lot is LFS that keep their fish at low salinity. Then, customers try to acclimate these fish to full salinity. This actually needs to be done over a few days - if your trying to raise them from day 1.018 to 1.025 specific gravity.
Buying pre quarantined fish might give you a good starting point.
Jay

Thank you for taking the time to respond. I really do appreciate it! Could this be caused by stray voltage? I am getting 45ish readings from the tank. Working on that now.