Phytoculture is only getting light green...

hsp

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My phyto cultures are only getting from a super light green to a slightly darker shade of light green, but never to the dark green which they had when I bought them. I have tried various things, tested pH, etc., but nothing seems to change the issue, despite getting twice a new culture starter from different LFSs. Clearly, I am doing something wrong.

I do the bubbler without stone, process everything as clean as possible (bleach everything beforehand and rinse), use 1 ml of Guillard's F/2 Formula for one litre of culture when I set it up, salinity 26 ppt. I have as lights: (1) Oksoar Grow Light Full Spectrum & Red Blue Spectrum 10 Dimmable Levels with 3 Modes Timing Function left and right of 1.5 litre bottles and (2) on top a Chihiros WRGB45 LED Series 2 at full power. Both are about 14 hours/day on.

My pH is different in different bottles, some bottles have 8.5 and some go up to 10. It doesn't look like there are different outcomes for different ph bottles. I also took one bottle and placed it a bit away from the light to check if there was too much light.

I also asked ChatGPT4o and got:

When cultivating phytoplankton for your marine tank, if the color remains light green indicating low density, several factors could be contributing to this issue:

1. **Nutrient Levels**: Ensure that the culture medium contains all the necessary nutrients, particularly nitrogen, phosphorus, and trace elements. A lack of these can limit phytoplankton growth.

2. **Light Intensity and Duration**: Phytoplankton require adequate light for photosynthesis. Ensure that your light source is sufficiently bright and that the photoperiod (duration of light exposure) is appropriate. Too much or too little light can hinder growth.

3. **Carbon Dioxide**: Phytoplankton need carbon dioxide for photosynthesis. Ensure there is enough CO2 in the culture environment, which can sometimes be a limiting factor.

4. **Temperature**: The temperature of the culture should be within the optimal range for the specific type of phytoplankton you are cultivating. Temperatures that are too high or too low can inhibit growth.

5. **pH Levels**: The pH of the culture medium should be monitored and kept within the optimal range. Extreme pH levels can negatively affect phytoplankton growth.

6. **Contamination**: Ensure that the culture is not contaminated with other microorganisms, such as bacteria or unwanted algae, which can compete with the phytoplankton for nutrients and light.

7. **Aeration and Mixing**: Proper aeration and gentle mixing can help distribute nutrients and gases evenly throughout the culture, promoting uniform growth.

8. **Culture Density**: If the initial inoculum (starting concentration of phytoplankton) is too low, it can take longer to reach a high density. Consider increasing the initial inoculum concentration.

By addressing these factors, you can optimize the conditions for phytoplankton growth and achieve a darker green, higher-density culture.


Any ideas on what else I can do to get to a dark green (high density) would be great. I will try and report back. Thanks!
 

Mr. Mojo Rising

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Personally I would just add a tiny bit more F2.

How long before you harvest? Can you post a pic?
 
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Personally I would just add a tiny bit more F2.
OK, I will try that and report back.
How long before you harvest?
I left it up to 10 days. It doesn't get greener after ~6 days anymore.
Can you post a pic?
See here (Note that the different shades of green come from the different batches I bought--presumably different species):
Screenshot 2024-06-04 at 05.40.51.png
 
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So, I am trying now different options:
A: more fertiliser
B: RODI water
C: Tap water with Prime as suggested here
All other conditions the same. I will report back on how it goes.
 
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6 June 2024:
Left: more fertiliser (second time added 1 ml F/2)
B: RODI water
C: Tap water with Prime as suggested here

Screenshot 2024-06-08 at 10.48.03.png
 
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8 June 2024:
Left: more fertiliser (added every other day: 1 ml F/2 )
B: RODI water, today added additional 1 ml F/2, as I did already during the start of the culture
C: Tap water with Prime as suggested here, today added additional 1 ml F/2, as I did already during the start of the culture
Screenshot 2024-06-08 at 10.51.00.png
 
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8 June 2024, evening:
Left: more fertiliser (added every other day: 1 ml F/2 )
B: RODI water, now with 2 x 1 ml F/2
C: Tap water with Prime as suggested here, now with 2 x 1 ml F/2

Screenshot 2024-06-08 at 16.13.03.png

Conclusion (so far, after one experiment with n = 3)
More fertilizer helped the regular culture and also the tap water culture. The tap water with Prime for dechlorination beats the RODI water. Extra fertilizer had a limited effect on RODI water.
 

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The claim that tap is better than rodi from that youtube video just doesn't make logical sense to me.

Tap will contain varied contaminants depending on where you live. There will be silica and nitrate, most likely. There will be chlorine. There may be some level of metals such as iron and copper. There could also be any variety of organic or inorganics, with varied and mostly unpredictable potential impact on your livestock.

So long as you dechlorinate, the phyto probably won't care about most of these extra substances but they could cause other issues downstream.

Silica will promote diatom growth. If you have contamination from wild diatoms they might make the phyto look more dense, but it's undesireable contamination.

Copper is toxic to invertebrates such as copepods and rotifers. If you have copper pipes it may (or may not) cause an issue feeding tap water-grown phyto to them.

Nitrate is in your f/2, and so theoretically if your fertilizer is deficient I suppose it could "fortify" poor quality f/2. But it will not be in the correct ratio, leaving excess nitrate in the feed given to animals downstream, which is generally undesireable. Also, if your f/2 is deficient, I would recommend addressing that problem directly.

Admittedly I am a hobbiest and not an expert. But the strongest argument I think is that professional aquaculturists and industrial marine biologists don't use tap to grow phyto.
 

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As a point of clarification, I think there are some use cases where using tap water to grow phyto is ok.

For instance if you grow nanno and feed to rotifers, which you then filter out of the media before feeding to fish fry. Assuming the rotifers don't die from copper toxicity, you are probably ok. You are removing the water before feeding to the livestock you really care about anyway. I know there are people who've used tap in this way and it worked out fine.

It just depends on your particular use case and tap water source. The problem is how do you know what's in your tap? Do you send it for testing? Even with a reliable test report tap conditions will change over time since the people managing the tap water are concerned with safety of humans, not for use in aquaculture.

I think the claim that rodi is just "too clean" for phyto is obvious nonsense. This was just an offhand comment in the video but seems to have triggered me a little, lol.
 

Nano_Man

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I use three quarters salt water at a salinity of 1.019 quarter plankton and sit it next to my window and medium aeration. Two 5ml of 100% natural pressed seaweed fertiliser. I’ve found it you make it weak at the beginning you don’t really get dark green. Here is photos of start colour and finished colour
IMG_0921.jpeg
IMG_0941.jpeg
 
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The claim that tap is better than rodi from that youtube video just doesn't make logical sense to me.

Tap will contain varied contaminants depending on where you live. There will be silica and nitrate, most likely. There will be chlorine. There may be some level of metals such as iron and copper. There could also be any variety of organic or inorganics, with varied and mostly unpredictable potential impact on your livestock.

So long as you dechlorinate, the phyto probably won't care about most of these extra substances but they could cause other issues downstream.

Silica will promote diatom growth. If you have contamination from wild diatoms they might make the phyto look more dense, but it's undesireable contamination.

Copper is toxic to invertebrates such as copepods and rotifers. If you have copper pipes it may (or may not) cause an issue feeding tap water-grown phyto to them.

Nitrate is in your f/2, and so theoretically if your fertilizer is deficient I suppose it could "fortify" poor quality f/2. But it will not be in the correct ratio, leaving excess nitrate in the feed given to animals downstream, which is generally undesireable. Also, if your f/2 is deficient, I would recommend addressing that problem directly.

Admittedly I am a hobbiest and not an expert. But the strongest argument I think is that professional aquaculturists and industrial marine biologists don't use tap to grow phyto.
Thanks for your thoughts. Good points that I had not considered. I will stop using tap water.
 

hunterallen40

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Thanks for your thoughts. Good points that I had not considered. I will stop using tap water.

I skimmed a bit, but found a lot of differences between what I'm doing and what's shown here.

I have a full write up for my process here:


I have been able to grow six strains of phyto this way, and make all the fertilizer I use at home (following the original recipe). Hope this is helpful!

I think sterilization + weekly harvesting + good fertilizer + lighting schedule are the most important aspects.
 
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I skimmed a bit, but found a lot of differences between what I'm doing and what's shown here.

I have a full write up for my process here:


I have been able to grow six strains of phyto this way, and make all the fertilizer I use at home (following the original recipe). Hope this is helpful!

I think sterilization + weekly harvesting + good fertilizer + lighting schedule are the most important aspects.
When you say in your article, "For most aquariums, Top Shelf Aquatics recommends a dose of 3 mL per gallon, or up to 5 mL per gallon if you have non-photosynthetic organisms to feed (gorgonians, electric flame scallops, other NPS corals)." I assume per day, correct? The next paragraph seems to suggest that.
 

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When you say in your article, "For most aquariums, Top Shelf Aquatics recommends a dose of 3 mL per gallon, or up to 5 mL per gallon if you have non-photosynthetic organisms to feed (gorgonians, electric flame scallops, other NPS corals)." I assume per day, correct? The next paragraph seems to suggest that.

Yeah, that's what I meant.
 
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That link doesn't work for me, but honestly any basic compound microscope is fine. I got one with a camera to record video, but that's definitely not the most important aspect!
Sorry about the link!
5.5 Inch LCD Digital Microscope, 1000 X 10MP 1080P Photo/Video Zoom Microscope
Screenshot 2024-06-10 at 10.46.23.png
 

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