PH always low

[jorgeeandreess]

Hey guys I’m having issues with the PH idk what’s happening. Ph 7.7 I rise it with seachem ph buffer and it touch the 8.0 but 3 or 4 days later ph is in 7.7 again. What’s happening? I’m using brightwell aquatics salt. Today parameters

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Immediately stop the buffer. It is never a suitable way to boost pH because it will push alkalinity too high, and isn't even the best alk supplement for raising pH.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

pH is determined by the Co2 level in the air equilibrating with the tank, and the total alkalinity. You likely have elevated home CO2, if the pH is accurate.

This has more:

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

 

[EvolvedMonkey]

CO2 scrubber and recirculator if you have a skimmer. It brought my pH from 7.7 to 8.3 in less than a week. Like magic.

 

[jorgeeandreess]

CO2 scrubber and recirculator if you have a skimmer. It brought my pH from 7.7 to 8.3 in less than a week. Like magic.

Hello I have the octopus skimmer. I think it has the recirculator. Isn’t it?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello I have the octopus skimmer. I think it has the recirculator. Isn’t it?

Let's back up.

The scrubbers mentioned above are media containing devices that remove CO2 from the air, and the recirculating aspect has to do with the air, not the water.

I personally do not like recirculating scrubbers and do not recommend their use. Those pushing them often do not consider the loss of oxygenation they suffer, since no one selling them tells them about it. At best they should be modified to allow in some fresh air.

There are many ways to raise pH. A scrubber is just one.

 

[EvolvedMonkey]

Let's back up.

The scrubbers mentioned above are media containing devices that remove CO2 from the air, and the recirculating aspect has to do with the air, not the water.

I personally do not like recirculating scrubbers and do not recommend their use. Those pushing them often do not consider the loss of oxygenation they suffer, since no one selling them tells them about it. At best they should be modified to allow in some fresh air.

There are many ways to raise pH. A scrubber is just one.

Interesting. I had never heard this was a problem. With all of my water surface agitation, I felt there was plenty of oxygenation going on.

How do you raise your pH? I'll allow in some extra fresh air. Thanks for the tip.

 

[EvolvedMonkey]

Hello I have the octopus skimmer. I think it has the recirculator. Isn’t it?

I'm no expert, and I don't know what model of octopus skimmer you have, but the air it uses to make bubbles likely comes straight from the room air. If your room air has high C02, it can drive down your pH. You have to connect that skimmer input air to CO2 scrubbing media/reactor and/or a recirculator attached to the skimmate collector if you want to reduce input C02 and raise pH.

I as just trying to share my experience, but lean on the expert here, Randy.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Interesting. I had never heard this was a problem. With all of my water surface agitation, I felt there was plenty of oxygenation going on.

How do you raise your pH? I'll allow in some extra fresh air. Thanks for the tip.

If surface aeration was perfect, tanks would never change in pH day to night, and scrubbers would be useless in combatting high room CO2.

The only thing that saves the day is that O2 is somewhat easier to equilibrate than is CO2.

My pH was never low, so I never had to raise it, but actions that can raise pH are:

1. Fresher air to the room
2. Outside air to a skimmer inlet
3. High pH alk additives (especially hydroxide, but carbonate to a lesser extent)

A little inlet leaking some air into the recirculating scrubber air can help boost O2 back to normal in the recirculating air.

 

[EvolvedMonkey]

If surface aeration was perfect, tanks would never change in pH day to night, and scrubbers would be useless in combatting high room CO2.

The only thing that saves the day is that O2 is somewhat easier to equilibrate than is CO2.

My pH was never low, so I never had to raise it, but actions that can raise pH are:

1. Fresher air to the room
2. Outside air to a skimmer inlet
3. High pH alk additives (especially hydroxide, but carbonate to a lesser extent)

A little inlet leaking some air into the recirculating scrubber air can help boost O2 back to normal in the recirculating air.

This is really helpful. thank you.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You're welcome.

I should also, obviously, add increased photosynthesis, either in the main tank or a refugium, to the list of pH raising actions.

 

[EvolvedMonkey]

I punched 6 small holes in the tubing where it meets the recirculator.. Hopefully that adds a bit of oxygen

My ORP is pretty consistent. Is that a descent measure of oxygenation? Or are there other ways to know the state of my water's oxygen? The fish seems fine and dandy

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I punched 6 small holes in the tubing where it meets the recirculator.. Hopefully that adds a bit of oxygen

My ORP is pretty consistent. Is that a descent measure of oxygenation? Or are there other ways to know the state of my water's oxygen? The fish seems fine and dandy

No, ORP responds more to CO2/pH than to O2. Fish seeming healthy is certainly important.

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Immediately stop the buffer. It is never a suitable way to boost pH because it will push alkalinity too high, and isn't even the best alk supplement for raising pH.

Yep! I found this out the hard way.

 

[GARRIGA]

How I solved my pH concerns. Previously lucky to see 7.7. Post adding algae that pH hovered around 8.1 with nothing in the house which contributed bulk of my co2 changing. Letting nature solve vs additives.

 

[GARRIGA]

I’d check alkalinity just incase it’s elevated post all that buffering. Might need an acid to drop it which will temporarily lower pH due to converting carbonate to co2. Seems backwards but all actions tend to have reactions.

 

[SaltyCrew4u]

Jumping in on this conversation. My PH seems to stay between 7.7 and 8.0 even when adding Brightwell PH+. I use Hanna and Salifert for all my test with exception to PH because I assumed my PH was good because my Alk stays around 8.5 but I have an API test kit and I personally have never had issues with the results but decided to upgrade to the test kits I listed above. So i test PH with the API. I have a HOB filter AquaClear 70, a HOB UV sterilizer and a DC 9001 skimmer on my 36 gallon. I keep my water level about two inches from the rim. Between the splashing caused by my HOB and UV sterilizer I figured my tank was good. Assumed the skimmer was helping even more, not to mention my power heads. What else could be causing my PH to stay low? We open the front and back door a lot between the kids and dogs coming in and out. Is something else keep my PH low?

Phos: .02
Alk: 8.5
Ammonia: .14
Mag: 1350
Calcium: 450
Nitrate: 11.5 PPM
PH: 7.8
Salinity 1.025

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Jumping in on this conversation. My PH seems to stay between 7.7 and 8.0 even when adding Brightwell PH+.

Bear in mind that is just a high pH alk additive.

pH is determined by alkalinity and CO2 in the water. Perhaps the pH measurement is off, your room has more CO2 than you assume, or the tank aeration overall is poor.

This can help sort it out;

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

The Aeration Test

Some of the possible causes of low pH listed above require an effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure its pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. Its pH should rise if it is unusually low for the measured alkalinity (Figure 2). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If its pH also rises, then the aquarium’s pH will rise simply with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise in the cup (or rises very little) when aerating with indoor air, then that air likely contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should). Be careful implementing this test if the outside aeration test results in a large temperature change (more than 5°C or 10°F), because such changes alone impact pH measurements.

 

[SaltyCrew4u]

Bear in mind that is just a high pH alk additive.

pH is determined by alkalinity and CO2 in the water. Perhaps the pH measurement is off, your room has more CO2 than you assume, or the tank aeration overall is poor.

This can help sort it out;

pH and the Reef Aquarium - REEFEDITION

by Randy Holmes-Farley For many aquarists, pH is not something that they have much experience with aside from their aquarium. For many, pH is almost a black box measurement: something to be considered, but whose physical meaning makes little sense to them. This article will Read more here...

www.reefedition.com

The Aeration Test

Some of the possible causes of low pH listed above require an effort to diagnose. Problems 3 and 4 are quite common, and here is a way to distinguish them. Remove a cup of tank water and measure its pH. Then aerate it for an hour with an airstone using outside air. Its pH should rise if it is unusually low for the measured alkalinity (Figure 2). Then repeat the same experiment on a new cup of water using inside air. If its pH also rises, then the aquarium’s pH will rise simply with more aeration because it is only the aquarium that contains excess carbon dioxide. If the pH does not rise in the cup (or rises very little) when aerating with indoor air, then that air likely contains excess CO2, and more aeration with that same air will not solve the low pH problem (although aeration with fresher air should). Be careful implementing this test if the outside aeration test results in a large temperature change (more than 5°C or 10°F), because such changes alone impact pH measurements.

As always thank you! I'm going to get an airstone tomorrow and try it out. I'm also going to start opening my doors much more and I put my power heards a little closer to the surface. It's to the point where I might have to turn my lights up to make up for the lose of PAR. If it is the air inside my house and I start opening my doors in the morning and evening, how long will it take for me to see a raise in PH?

 

[AstroMelly]

I like the digital Milwaukee ph meter over any colour comparison ph test. I found them too hard to read. The Milwaukee meters are reasonably priced, easy to use and most combine a digital thermometer as well. They also provide me with consistent results and seems to not drift too often. I recalibrate every month or two. I’m still struggling to get above 8.1 at peak photoperiod with a CO2 scrubber but I am not sweating it.