Panda Goby in a 0.7L Aquarium - Tell me it's silly...or am I getting this right?

[Polymate3D]

Hello

Firstly before you jump at me, I have not done this. I have a 0.7L pico reef which is going fairly well and as time goes on, I am considering what is plausible with these 0.7L to 5L Pico aquariums.

I recently read about @Jay Hemdal and both his deep experience and his 'estimating the need for swimming space of Aquarium Fishes"

Estimating the Need for Swimming Space for Aquarium Fishes

I had previous ruled out the concept of any fish at all in such a small aquarium, but I did the maths:

Panda Goby on Fishbase = 3.0cm
*0.8 = 2.4cm
10 + 10 = 20cm

20cm / 2.4cm = 8.33

The article states 8 as a minimum, but later states Gobies as a more Sedentary fish which I agree from experience, which is a preferred ratio of 1:5 which this would be way within this target.

I am 3D printing the rockwork, so designing something with a cave and ledges in one corner, and open space otherwise is not a issue.

So yeah, I would love Jay's own opinion and also other peoples. My long term head says no way, but I also have a yellow goby in a 15cm cube for a few weeks before with Ich and he loved his own little place.

The aquarium is question has its own circuit board, heater, pump and light. It is maintaining a temperature of 26c +/-0.3c and a tight sealing lid, making salinity swings a non issue.

I want this to be a debate and not a argument thread if it becomes one.

IF I did this, I also have a 34L established aquarium which could take them no problem, and would naturally observe behaviour and judge, along with water parameters.

What do you think!?

- Paul

 

[smitten with ocean life]

that is so cute! ive never seen such a tiny tank!

 

[Polymate3D]

that is so cute! ive never seen such a tiny tank!

Thanks!

Its surprisingly stable. It now has 2 kena tree frags, a small toadstool and a yellow zoa and all are doing great. I put a hermit crab in there but he cleans the entire thing in a day so can't stay in there all the time. The idea was that my circuit board can be tweaked to be as stable of possible on a super small volume of water.

- Paul

 

[smitten with ocean life]

well, you did a great job! sorry, i cant answer you question about the fish

 

[Northern Flicker]

Why provide it with as little as possible? Sure, it may live, but I think we can do better for our animals cool little reef!

 

[Polymate3D]

Why provide it with as little as possible? Sure, it may live, but I think we can do better for our animals cool little reef!

I agree, but that also becomes a rope that keeps going.

The idea stems from my yellow goby who passed away last year. I had 2 in a Fluval EVO, so big tank for 2 gobies right. One loved it.

The other always was hiding and was found 3 times in the filtration chamber swimming about in a little chamber on his own. Each time I got him and put him back in. He wasn't be attacked in any way.

He ended up getting Ich and so I set him up in a little 15cm cube I had with a printed rock as something to hide in:

In this he was out all the time and seemed happier. He recovered and went back in...3 times over. Each time he was in the main tank a couple of weeks before showing signs. Went back in the 15cm container and recovered. Again there was no sign of bullying or harassment.

When he passed away I was kicking myself that I didn't just set the small tank up for him, but I (A) Wasn't prepared (B) Felt as you say, it was too small.

So this is where it stems from. My experience with Gobies if they like to perch and have a little safe place, but don't particularly adventure about much. Hence with the linked guide I am asking everyone this question to make others question the exact same thing. Do we have the right thought process for decades or is Jay's approach actually a more reasonable way to look at things?

Would it of been better to let them just live in 1 single small chamber in the back of the EVO aquarium, over there own little aquarium set out for them?

- Paul

 

[Northern Flicker]

I agree, but that also becomes a rope that keeps going.

The idea stems from my yellow goby who passed away last year. I had 2 in a Fluval EVO, so big tank for 2 gobies right. One loved it.

The other always was hiding and was found 3 times in the filtration chamber swimming about in a little chamber on his own. Each time I got him and put him back in. He wasn't be attacked in any way.

He ended up getting Ich and so I set him up in a little 15cm cube I had with a printed rock as something to hide in:

In this he was out all the time and seemed happier. He recovered and went back in...3 times over. Each time he was in the main tank a couple of weeks before showing signs. Went back in the 15cm container and recovered. Again there was no sign of bullying or harassment.

When he passed away I was kicking myself that I didn't just set the small tank up for him, but I (A) Wasn't prepared (B) Felt as you say, it was too small.

So this is where it stems from. My experience with Gobies if they like to perch and have a little safe place, but don't particularly adventure about much. Hence with the linked guide I am asking everyone this question to make others question the exact same thing. Do we have the right thought process for decades or is Jay's approach actually a more reasonable way to look at things?

Would it of been better to let them just live in 1 single small chamber in the back of the EVO aquarium, over there own little aquarium set out for them?

- Paul

I think it would have been better to just not buy the gobies but I also can empathize and have been in that position many times too Paul.

I agree that some fish really don't need much space, they are happy to just chill in their little territory, but 0.7L / 0.2g is just too little. That's only a few cups! I drink more beer in a single sip

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Good luck if you end up doing it, personally I wouldn't put a fish into a coke can sized tank. I don't get why, other than "just because".

 

[bubba005]

I have a green clown goby in my 31 gallon AIO, but I have never seen him venture beyond a roughly 5''x5'' area of my rock/sand bed. He has a cave in which he perches and sleeps but I have never seen him swimming in the open water. He typically only becomes active during feeding time and even then he never leaves his safe area. Based on this anecdotal evidence, I think a small goby would likely be perfectly fine in this tank. The panda would be a great choice as well as any of the benthic clown gobies.

 

[Polymate3D]

Good luck if you end up doing it, personally I wouldn't put a fish into a coke can sized tank. I don't get why, other than "just because".

Thanks for the opinion Mr Mojo!

I agree it seems crazy. As mentioned, if I did I would do it next to the established 34L that would be on standby. Not eating / seeming stressed I would get them out.

I may end offering the micro reef to people with my control board and that as it both heats and cool with a small peltier element to maintain temperature. I know the 1st question would be if a fish or any kind can be done, and I will think of my previous yellow goby being happy in the 15cm at least.

If I end up offering something I want a categoric yes or no and the experience to back it up, but this is all up in the air right now.

Even if I tried it, it won't be for a month or so, so plenty of time to gather feedback and make a informed choice.

- Paul

 

[Polymate3D]

I have a green clown goby in my 31 gallon AIO, but I have never seen him venture beyond a roughly 5''x5'' area of my rock/sand bed. He has a cave in which he perches and sleeps but I have never seen him swimming in the open water. He typically only becomes active during feeding time and even then he never leaves his safe area. Based on this anecdotal evidence, I think a small goby would likely be perfectly fine in this tank. The panda would be a great choice as well as any of the benthic clown gobies.

This matches similar to my experience from before so the 15x15x15cm 2.5L may be feasible then.
Hopefully I will get many opinions and go from there. I know people have gobies in the PNW 40oz tanks including @Biota_Marine .
The PNW tanks have. 32 Oz main tank or 0.83L so not much difference. Be good to hear from one of those!

- Paul

 

[Tamberav]

I would not but mostly because I wonder about oxygenation? It’s a tiny amount of water that is sealed up. I feel like it wouldn’t take much to go wrong to kill the fish. Even just a very mild bloom of bacteria would deplete the water quickly and the fish would probably be the first to go while coral and such would probably be okay.

 

[Polymate3D]

I would not but mostly because I wonder about oxygenation? It’s a tiny amount of water that is sealed up. I feel like it wouldn’t take much to go wrong to kill the fish. Even just a very mild bloom of bacteria would deplete the water quickly and the fish would probably be the first to go while coral and such would probably be okay.

This is a really good point and was a big concern back with the yellow goby. It never became a big concern then, but...



This is my own custom pump running at 0.25W here. I currently run it at 0.15W but this may change

The design is slightly different now, but serves the purpose here. It is a impeller which sucks water up and then out. The motor is actually in the lid of the aquarium to reduce heat input to such a small volume of water. The difference in the one in use is there is a shafter traveling down to the impeller and a cover to protect the motor.

The pump is rated for up to 1W which results in this much flow:



There will be a small air gap to allow for air exchange, and this pump was designed to try and agitate the surface as well as possible for such a small aquarium.

What do you think?

- Paul

 

[Northern Flicker]

The goby when the pump is turned up to 1W:

 

[stewy14]

no, the tank is too small
but very nice tank!!!! love the diy aspect of it!

 

[Polymate3D]

no, the tank is too small
but very nice tank!!!! love the diy aspect of it!

At what size would you consider it? I have a 2.7L & 5L Versions as well (15cm cube / 18cm cube)

Thanks. It stems from wanting to make smaller aquariums easier to run and that making it a cheaper entry point with less things to think about as a newbie.

Controller heats and cools without evaporation. The lid will have a container which can be used for warming up the water change water. LED light is simple but effective, achieving 65 < 200 PAR as you go up.

I started on the 0.7L so temperature swings would be more extreme, but so far it sticks to 26.0c +/-0.3c

Thanks for the feedback. Would be intrigued to hear what size you think would be okay, and if you would have a flat out minimum regardless.

I thought 0.7L would be rather stupid but other than the thermistor pulled out by my 4 year old its been solid!

- Paul

 

[Biota_Marine]

This matches similar to my experience from before so the 15x15x15cm 2.5L may be feasible then.
Hopefully I will get many opinions and go from there. I know people have gobies in the PNW 40oz tanks including @Biota_Marine .
The PNW tanks have. 32 Oz main tank or 0.83L so not much difference. Be good to hear from one of those!

- Paul

We've kept the small eviota gobies in the PNW tanks and they seem to do pretty fine. In the wild they rarely venture far from their small slice of territory. Possibly with clown gobies they sometimes hop from branching colony to branching colony but I couldn't imagine it's that large of a space.

Main thing is you want to put them in an environment where they won't just survive but also thrive and have great behavior and health. So you probably could keep one in that size tank feasibly but maybe doubling the sizing may make for a bit more comfort and stability while also being a pretty cool species only micro tank.

 

[stewy14]

none,

At what size would you consider it? I have a 2.7L & 5L Versions as well (15cm cube / 18cm cube)

Thanks. It stems from wanting to make smaller aquariums easier to run and that making it a cheaper entry point with less things to think about as a newbie.

Controller heats and cools without evaporation. The lid will have a container which can be used for warming up the water change water. LED light is simple but effective, achieving 65 < 200 PAR as you go up.

I started on the 0.7L so temperature swings would be more extreme, but so far it sticks to 26.0c +/-0.3c

Thanks for the feedback. Would be intrigued to hear what size you think would be okay, and if you would have a flat out minimum regardless.

I thought 0.7L would be rather stupid but other than the thermistor pulled out by my 4 year old its been solid!

- Paul

they need minimum 10 gallons, they hiding spots, pocilipora coral(idk lol) and swimming space.
but, I think u could pull it off since of the size! maybe in the bigger one? just try and see the smaller ones too, see how he does?

 

[Northern Flicker]

We've kept the small eviota gobies in the PNW tanks and they seem to do pretty fine. In the wild they rarely venture far from their small slice of territory. Possibly with clown gobies they sometimes hop from branching colony to branching colony but I couldn't imagine it's that large of a space.

Main thing is you want to put them in an environment where they won't just survive but also thrive and have great behavior and health. So you probably could keep one in that size tank feasibly but maybe doubling the sizing may make for a bit more comfort and stability while also being a pretty cool species only micro tank.

I always figured mine was happy in my 25g (sold as Biota Black Belly - I think it's the same one you mentioned). Then one day after my 25g crashed due to equipment failure, I decided to just move everything to my 60 breeder. The little Black Belly is so happy! I see it all over the place. It's so small that it wanders into the territories of the other fish and they don't care.

Same with my Red Face Goby (Eleacatinus) - so happy in the big tank I am so grateful for all of you cb kings out there.

 

[Tamberav]

I personally would not recommend anything smaller than a gallon for a fish.

I would probably scowl a bit if a company was marketing that tiny tank for fish. It Can be done but average person would kill the fish.

It’s a bit different if it’s just for your self as I would assume you have the skills needed to address issues and experience.

I think the tank is super awesome btw. There used to be little jars you could buy, pj? Kind of reminds me of that.