P4 Monitoring ATO pump controlled via ATO controller

[TehBrainz]

Hello!

I'm using the Hydor Smart Level Controller connected to a pump for my ATO controller. This has worked quite reliably for over 5 years.

I'd like to monitor how often the pump is turned on, as well as, the duration in which the pump is on in hopes to understand:

1. my evaporation rate during the year (I manually fill reservoir so I have an idea, but automatic monitoring sure would be nice)
2. pump performance as the amount to fill is always the same based on the ATO sensor design

The issue comes in with my P4 seeing the ATO controller being powered on with 0 amperage when in "idle" state and does not control the pump on or off itself. I'm assuming I would see an amperage value when the pump kicks on, but have not witnessed this for confirmation.

Any ideas how one might go about this (or if it is even possible) without changing my ATO set-up to level switches plugged into the P4? I'd rather not spend $140+ for essentially more data and a new potential failure mode (physical sensors vs. temperature sensors).

Thank you,
Brian

 

[TehBrainz]

Showing GCC view that actual current is 0.00 A while my ATO is turned on, but in "idle" state. Programmable logic is tied to maintenance/feed actions to turn the entire controller off during the events.

Thank you,
Brian

 

[Macca_75]

Showing GCC view that actual current is 0.00 A while my ATO is turned on, but in "idle" state. Programmable logic is tied to maintenance/feed actions to turn the entire controller off during the events.

Thank you,
Brian

Probably not enough current to register.

 

[Dave-T]

I don't think there's a way to do this within the GHL ecosystem. Although the switch outlets do show power draw, that information isn't logged, and there's no way to act on it via programmable logic. If you did use GHL to control the pump, then there would be a way to do what you want.

You might be able to find a smart plug with logging, that you could plug your pump into and get what you want.

 

[TehBrainz]

Probably not enough current to register.

Yea that's what I was thinking. I may "force" the ATO to kick on by removing some water and then replacing it afterwards just to see if the pump draw is even enough to show. Regardless, not sure it'll give me the info I'm looking for at this time

 

[TehBrainz]

I don't think there's a way to do this within the GHL ecosystem. Although the switch outlets do show power draw, that information isn't logged, and there's no way to act on it via programmable logic. If you did use GHL to control the pump, then there would be a way to do what you want.

You might be able to find a smart plug with logging, that you could plug your pump into and get what you want.

That's a good idea about the smart plugs. I need to get some systems over to voice controlled routines for when I'm out of town for the tank sitter. May be a good justification to get one now.

Really wish power draw could be acted on and monitored though. Bummer

 

[KStatefan]

Without data logging on the GHL i do not see how you are going to get anything.

You could use a kill-a-watt to get some basic info. watts of the pump would be fixed and you could use the watthours to figure out how long the pump was on.

 

[Lasse]

Have not seen this post before - I´m sorry.

There is a workaround to this that may work. First look at these explanations how I have done in order to monitor different things

In order to monitor my heather and also a non GHL pump I have create a virtual dosing pump (A dosing program without any physical dosing pumps) In my case Dose program 29 - heater and dose program 30 for my pump below the USB

Explanations: My heater is controlled by my temperature sensor using controlling mode pulse variable Pulse max 4 min and pause 30 sec. I have put in 1 ml a minute as calibration value. Record dosing is on. Heater is connected at switch channel 19. hence pump reacts to switch channel index 19

Corresponding chart. Calibration in this case is 1 ml/min which means that each ml in this chart correspond to 1 min on time for the heater. I this time period - the heather (200 W) has run for 425 min = 6.54 hours = 7.08* 200 = 1.416 kWh energy consumption and an average on time of 1.3 min

My pump below my DSB is controlled by a timer and is connected to switch channel index 3. I have calibrated it to give 2000 ml (2L) /min but P4 can´t handle this flow, hence I have divided it with 100 and put in 20 ml/h as calibration value. Recording active and it react to switch channel index 3 Timer is cyclic off 60 sec - on 840 sec

Corresponding chart. The pump has give 26 638 ml during these 24 hours. it means 26.638 * 100 =2663.8 L/24 Hours = 111 L/H

Now - you problem is that you can´t get a signal from your Hydor controller that it is in on or off mode into your P4. But if you put a multi plug outlet into your hydor power socket and connect one of the outlet to a on/off relay you can get an digital on/off signal from the relay.

Get a GHL floating sensor, cut away the floating part, connect the cord and let the on/off signal from the relay. It will work as as a floating sensor. Create a level function Top off only and configure it to be active when the relay is closed ( imitates an on signal from a floater). Now you create an virtual switch channel that respond to this imitative level sensor. This virtual switch channel will be your "respond to the switch channel index"

Basically - you use one of your level inputs as a digital input - I have done this before in a complicated set up I did for a company that want to integrate non GHL equipment's with a GHL P3. I know that the princip works

After this you use one of my hacks (or both) above to get this into charts

Complicated - maybe - but I think it can be done

Sincerely Lasse

 

[BeanAnimal]

Nice workaround @Lasse but so messy for something where logging should be fairly straight forward. Hopefully one day we can choose to log switch events instead of just accumulated time, as well as logic states and/or superimose them on a simple graph, as both logic and switches are simple binary states.

 

[TehBrainz]

Have not seen this post before - I´m sorry.

There is a workaround to this that may work. First look at these explanations how I have done in order to monitor different things

In order to monitor my heather and also a non GHL pump I have create a virtual dosing pump (A dosing program without any physical dosing pumps) In my case Dose program 29 - heater and dose program 30 for my pump below the USB

Explanations: My heater is controlled by my temperature sensor using controlling mode pulse variable Pulse max 4 min and pause 30 sec. I have put in 1 ml a minute as calibration value. Record dosing is on. Heater is connected at switch channel 19. hence pump reacts to switch channel index 19

Corresponding chart. Calibration in this case is 1 ml/min which means that each ml in this chart correspond to 1 min on time for the heater. I this time period - the heather (200 W) has run for 425 min = 6.54 hours = 7.08* 200 = 1.416 kWh energy consumption and an average on time of 1.3 min

My pump below my DSB is controlled by a timer and is connected to switch channel index 3. I have calibrated it to give 2000 ml (2L) /min but P4 can´t handle this flow, hence I have divided it with 100 and put in 20 ml/h as calibration value. Recording active and it react to switch channel index 3 Timer is cyclic off 60 sec - on 840 sec

Corresponding chart. The pump has give 26 638 ml during these 24 hours. it means 26.638 * 100 =2663.8 L/24 Hours = 111 L/H

Now - you problem is that you can´t get a signal from your Hydor controller that it is in on or off mode into your P4. But if you put a multi plug outlet into your hydor power socket and connect one of the outlet to a on/off relay you can get an digital on/off signal from the relay.

Get a GHL floating sensor, cut away the floating part, connect the cord and let the on/off signal from the relay. It will work as as a floating sensor. Create a level function Top off only and configure it to be active when the relay is closed ( imitates an on signal from a floater). Now you create an virtual switch channel that respond to this imitative level sensor. This virtual switch channel will be your "respond to the switch channel index"

Basically - you use one of your level inputs as a digital input - I have done this before in a complicated set up I did for a company that want to integrate non GHL equipment's with a GHL P3. I know that the princip works

After this you use one of my hacks (or both) above to get this into charts

Complicated - maybe - but I think it can be done

Sincerely Lasse

This all makes sense. I've already used examples of the first method for monitoring my CO2 scrubber. I have an electronic ball valve that diverts the flow of air infeed for my skimmer either through my CO2 media or pulling in from the room based on the pH of the tank, virtual dosera then logs the time that air is passing across my media. I think I picked it up from one of your other posts if I'm not mistaken.

Regarding the work around for tracking when my Hydor kicks on the ATO pump, that seems straight forward enough. I just need to find an appropriate relay switch for the job now.

Nice workaround @Lasse but so messy for something where logging should be fairly straight forward. Hopefully one day we can choose to log switch events instead of just accumulated time, as well as logic states and/or superimose them on a simple graph, as both logic and switches are simple binary states.

Agreed. Really looking forward to that possibility as well as ability to monitor and chart power usage instead of having to do the math separately for each piece of equipment when my curiosity picks up. Albeit, that hasn't happened yet besides initial setup for the dedicated circuit

 

[BeanAnimal]

Really looking forward to that possibility as well as ability to monitor and chart power usage instead of having to do the math separately for each piece of equipment when my curiosity picks up. Albeit, that hasn't happened yet besides initial setup for the dedicated circuit

At the rate of GHL development - you have a better chance of seeing Halley's comment again before you see that.

Just a completed API would be nice - expose these values and let us interpret them.