Orchid dottyback with unknown internal parasites?

RedSeareefkeeper

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Hello,
My Orchid dottyback has a slightly emaciated stomach and black lumps on it
20231126_192808.jpg

The lumps aren't very well pronounced in the image but are present irl, they appeared today. I bought him two days ago, due to a few errors on my part and being short on time I ended up putting him in my display tank, luckily he is the only inhabitant except a skunk cleaner shrimp who went in first some time back, the store where I bought him had a salinity of 1.015, I only knew this too late and the poor thing was subjected to a 11 point salinity rise over a period of about 2 hours due to my incompetence, he showed no immediate signs of illness during purchase or after being put in the tank except being a touch thin and having a small faint black line (not a dot, and also it appeared to be below the skin not on top) on right, slightly above and behind his plectoral fins. I looked for any information about such a symptom and came up empty and thought that the slight emaciated was due to being in a small tank with a dozen other orchid dottybacks outcompeteing him for food. Fast forward Two days and besides the lightly more emaciated appearance and the aforementioned lumps, the following has happened: the faint black line has disappeared being replaced by the recent lumps, the fish is rather time never leaving his territory which consists of a few tunnels and arches that are about half the tank, acting as if afraid of a predator that isn't there, and he only eats a few pieces of mysis out of a whole cube, most he seems either too mortified to swum out and grab while with what little comes his way he disregards if it is too small or if he is distracted by something else.
What could this be? Although they seem to me internal could this be some kind of fluke? The lumps are black and don't look like most photos of flukes I have seen, and why would they cause a loss of appetite?
Is there any specific internal affliction that shows up as black lumps on a fish's stomach alongside the usual emaciation and lack of appetite?
In terms of treatments at my disposal at the moment I have a 5 gallon tank and cycled biomedia that I can use to set up a qt, I currently have some api general cure available, problem is I need to first know should I dose it based on the praziquantel dosing regime or the metronidazole one depending on is this a protozoan or a worm type thing. Any advice? Fish meds for internal parasites are very hard to come by where I live so I don't want to misuse the general cure only to then have none available for days or weeks while the poor guy is being eaten from the inside out.
Thanks.
 

vetteguy53081

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Hello,
My Orchid dottyback has a slightly emaciated stomach and black lumps on it
20231126_192808.jpg

The lumps aren't very well pronounced in the image but are present irl, they appeared today. I bought him two days ago, due to a few errors on my part and being short on time I ended up putting him in my display tank, luckily he is the only inhabitant except a skunk cleaner shrimp who went in first some time back, the store where I bought him had a salinity of 1.015, I only knew this too late and the poor thing was subjected to a 11 point salinity rise over a period of about 2 hours due to my incompetence, he showed no immediate signs of illness during purchase or after being put in the tank except being a touch thin and having a small faint black line (not a dot, and also it appeared to be below the skin not on top) on right, slightly above and behind his plectoral fins. I looked for any information about such a symptom and came up empty and thought that the slight emaciated was due to being in a small tank with a dozen other orchid dottybacks outcompeteing him for food. Fast forward Two days and besides the lightly more emaciated appearance and the aforementioned lumps, the following has happened: the faint black line has disappeared being replaced by the recent lumps, the fish is rather time never leaving his territory which consists of a few tunnels and arches that are about half the tank, acting as if afraid of a predator that isn't there, and he only eats a few pieces of mysis out of a whole cube, most he seems either too mortified to swum out and grab while with what little comes his way he disregards if it is too small or if he is distracted by something else.
What could this be? Although they seem to me internal could this be some kind of fluke? The lumps are black and don't look like most photos of flukes I have seen, and why would they cause a loss of appetite?
Is there any specific internal affliction that shows up as black lumps on a fish's stomach alongside the usual emaciation and lack of appetite?
In terms of treatments at my disposal at the moment I have a 5 gallon tank and cycled biomedia that I can use to set up a qt, I currently have some api general cure available, problem is I need to first know should I dose it based on the praziquantel dosing regime or the metronidazole one depending on is this a protozoan or a worm type thing. Any advice? Fish meds for internal parasites are very hard to come by where I live so I don't want to misuse the general cure only to then have none available for days or weeks while the poor guy is being eaten from the inside out.
Thanks.
Not necessarily an internal issue but can be constipation. If your feeding pellets and other dry foods, may be part of issue.
If fish currently eating? If so, feed brine shrimp which will act as a laxative and loosen up any stoppage.
is poop normal brown of thick and white?
 
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RedSeareefkeeper

RedSeareefkeeper

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Not necessarily an internal issue but can be constipation. If your feeding pellets and other dry foods, may be part of issue.
If fish currently eating? If so, feed brine shrimp which will act as a laxative and loosen up any stoppage.
is poop normal brown of thick and white?
I tried feeding pellets yesterday to no response, since then it's been frozen mysis only. I have some frozen brine shrimp which I will offer tomorrow, I haven't seen any stool at all.
Is it common for constipation to cause that lumpy texture and black blotches on the emaciated stomach area?
 

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I tried feeding pellets yesterday to no response, since then it's been frozen mysis only. I have some frozen brine shrimp which I will offer tomorrow, I haven't seen any stool at all.
Is it common for constipation to cause that lumpy texture and black blotches on the emaciated stomach area?

The "black blotches" may be bile staining. Dilute bile looks green, but in higher amounts, it is black.

Bile staining can come from starvation, which in turn causes liver dysfunction.

Jay
 
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RedSeareefkeeper

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The "black blotches" may be bile staining. Dilute bile looks green, but in higher amounts, it is black.

Bile staining can come from starvation, which in turn causes liver dysfunction.

Jay
Alright, if the blotches are due to that does it rule out internal parasites and my priority is to just get him eating? or is it worth pulling him out of the tank for treatment? Too early to tell?
So far I have tried feeding him in the afternoon after the lights turn on (not right after they do of course) have I made a large mistake in forgetting the habits of this species and it would be best to feed them first thing in the morning (~6:30 am) before the lights are on, or how about right after they turn off for the night? Should just waiting be my best bet?
 
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RedSeareefkeeper

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The reason I think this is
Alright, if the blotches are due to that does it rule out internal parasites and my priority is to just get him eating? or is it worth pulling him out of the tank for treatment? Too early to tell?
So far I have tried feeding him in the afternoon after the lights turn on (not right after they do of course) have I made a large mistake in forgetting the habits of this species and it would be best to feed them first thing in the morning (~6:30 am) before the lights are on, or how about right after they turn off for the night? Should just waiting be my best bet?
because on Jacob Dafni's website of Northern Red Sea fish the orchid dottyback is listed under twilight and night fish, I tried feeding him frozen Brine Shrimp at around 630 am well before the lights are on while the tank is only illuminated only by ambient light. Same response as any other hour with mysis, maybe at around sunset?
 

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Alright, if the blotches are due to that does it rule out internal parasites and my priority is to just get him eating? or is it worth pulling him out of the tank for treatment? Too early to tell?
So far I have tried feeding him in the afternoon after the lights turn on (not right after they do of course) have I made a large mistake in forgetting the habits of this species and it would be best to feed them first thing in the morning (~6:30 am) before the lights are on, or how about right after they turn off for the night? Should just waiting be my best bet?

Ah - I missed in your first post about the salinity rise. That was enough to be outright fatal, so the fish surviving that was not a given, and I suspect that the not eating stems from that episode, rather than any sort of parasite. Most orchid dottybacks (all?) are tank raised now. That rules out internal parasites.

In cases of extreme salinity rises, there isn't anything to do except see if the fish recovers, you can't "turn back the clock" and there isn't any treatment for that issue.

I wish dealers would not sell fish from tanks with such low salinity -

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/acclimation-methods.903/


Jay
 
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RedSeareefkeeper

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Ah - I missed in your first post about the salinity rise. That was enough to be outright fatal, so the fish surviving that was not a given, and I suspect that the not eating stems from that episode, rather than any sort of parasite. Most orchid dottybacks (all?) are tank raised now. That rules out internal parasites.

In cases of extreme salinity rises, there isn't anything to do except see if the fish recovers, you can't "turn back the clock" and there isn't any treatment for that issue.

I wish dealers would not sell fish from tanks with such low salinity -

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/acclimation-methods.903/


Jay
The slight emaciation was present before the salinity change and the rest of the dottybacks in the tank weren't doing too hot either, discoloration, emaciation, you name it. I had chalked it up to cramming 16 highly territorial fish in about a 15 gallon space (aggresion and food competition) with nothing but a few short straight pieces of pvc.. today he ventured out from "his" part of the tank and explored the rest of the rockwork, still reluctantly eating. I hope he'll survive and thay his exploration of his surroundings is a sign of hope.
 
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RedSeareefkeeper

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Update: Good news! The guy is eating and behaving more confidently! Although not eating normally or acting completely normal either, it definitely is much more normal behavior.
For now I will just continue to feed him and observe him.
Thanks!
 
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